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Fans infuriated after two-hour wait for Guns N' Roses Liverpool gig


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soul monster, if the last 20 years aren't evidence enough of Beta and Axl's combined incompetence, then i'm afraid you're either unwilling or incapable of recognizing evidence.

Are you saying that Axl's housekeeper should be blamed for previous managements' faults?? Are you REALLY suggesting that Beta, in her then position as Axl's housekeeper, should somehow have overruled whatever decisions his actual, professional management at that time took? You are SERIOUSLY blaming her for the actions of professional managers that worked for GN'R and Axl previously? Wow, just wow.

Let's look at real, factual evidence:

(1) Things were fucked up when Axl had professional managers

(2) Things have improved greatly with Team Brazil in control

It is dumbfoundingly bizarre to completely overlook (2) YET still blame (1) on Beta (who was then only in domestic service to Axl). You are saying that you expected her from her position as a housekeeper to overrule the bad decisions that previous management took, yet choose to ignore the great things that take place now that she has actual, real power. Again, wow.

And why on earth are you bringing in Axl's incompetence in a discussion of his management. Do you even know what a management is?

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I think the only reason Beta is getting anything more than past managers is simply because Axl trusts her so when she suggests something he's more likely to go for it whereas before he always had a problem with managers being paranoid and such thinking they're trying to force reunions, firing them and getting new ones every year.

Do people really believe that the top managers in the game were more incompetent than the housekeeper and her family? Do people really think they're great managers for getting all this done that previous ones couldn't? Some of you don't think previous managers had tonnes of great ideas that Axl refused?

Or is it more likely that because his moms in charge he's letting her get shit done? I find it hard to believe after all the top managers Axl has had where GNR did nothing and now that they're doing something (sort of) that that is because of Beta and her kids. Please!

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I think the only reason Beta is getting anything more than past managers is simply because Axl trusts her so when she suggests something he's more likely to go for it whereas before he always had a problem with managers being paranoid and such thinking they're trying to force reunions, firing them and getting new ones every year.

Do people really believe that the top managers in the game were more incompetent than the housekeeper and her family? Do people really think they're great managers for getting all this done that previous ones couldn't? Some of you don't think previous managers had tonnes of great ideas that Axl refused?

Or is it more likely that because his moms in charge he's letting her get shit done? I find it hard to believe after all the top managers Axl has had where GNR did nothing and now that they're doing something (sort of) that that is because of Beta and her kids. Please!

I agree completely. I am happy either way that Axl is at least getting out and touring, but having said that it has nothing to do with Beta (or the family) being better managers but has everything to do with Axl trusting them. Plus I think that Beta & Co have a much higher rooting interest than Azoff or whoever may of had. All of the previous managers are/were already millionaires, so would of they loved to have more money?,yes. But their own livelyhood did not depend on it.

But with Beta & Co being in charge it gives us a better chance of more tours and hopefully new music. Whereas in the past with other management Axl had no issues with firing them, then disappearing for long periods of time.

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I think the only reason Beta is getting anything more than past managers is simply because Axl trusts her so when she suggests something he's more likely to go for it whereas before he always had a problem with managers being paranoid and such thinking they're trying to force reunions, firing them and getting new ones every year.

Do people really believe that the top managers in the game were more incompetent than the housekeeper and her family? Do people really think they're great managers for getting all this done that previous ones couldn't? Some of you don't think previous managers had tonnes of great ideas that Axl refused?

Or is it more likely that because his moms in charge he's letting her get shit done? I find it hard to believe after all the top managers Axl has had where GNR did nothing and now that they're doing something (sort of) that that is because of Beta and her kids. Please!

One of the most important skills of a manager is to be able to build relations with the band (or whoever you are managing), it gives you leverage when having to persuade the band to follow along with your ideas when that is necessary. It is obvious Beta has this quality in regards to Axl. That is nothing to hold against her at all. It goes a long way in making her a good manager for him. Hopefully she also has the other qualities that are necessary (knowing when to employ judicial help, having a large contact network in the biz, having great interpersonal skills, etc). So I don't really see why we should hold it against her that "the only reason" she gets more done is that "Axl trusts" her, it is such a vital skill for managers, perhaps a trusting relationship that previous managers were never able to establish.

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I think the only reason Beta is getting anything more than past managers is simply because Axl trusts her so when she suggests something he's more likely to go for it whereas before he always had a problem with managers being paranoid and such thinking they're trying to force reunions, firing them and getting new ones every year.

Do people really believe that the top managers in the game were more incompetent than the housekeeper and her family? Do people really think they're great managers for getting all this done that previous ones couldn't? Some of you don't think previous managers had tonnes of great ideas that Axl refused?

Or is it more likely that because his moms in charge he's letting her get shit done? I find it hard to believe after all the top managers Axl has had where GNR did nothing and now that they're doing something (sort of) that that is because of Beta and her kids. Please!

One of the most important skills of a manager is to be able to build relations with the band (or whoever you are managing), it gives you leverage when having to persuade the band to follow along with your ideas when that is necessary. It is obvious Beta has this quality in regards to Axl. That is nothing to hold against her at all. It goes a long way in making her a good manager for him. Hopefully she also has the other qualities that are necessary (knowing when to employ judicial help, having a large contact network in the biz, having great interpersonal skills, etc). So I don't really see why we should hold it against her that "the only reason" she gets more done is that "Axl trusts" her, it is such a vital skill for managers, perhaps a trusting relationship that previous managers were never able to establish.

Yeah all of that is true, but from things I have read Beta hasn't exactly done anything to help the medias view on gnr. I seem to remember reading about GQ magazine wanting to do a feature on Axl and she went off saying that they would need a cover of Axl and had a list of questions that couldn't be asked. And the guy from GQ said she was extremely difficult to communicate with, he said he basically told her that GQ has people on the cover from their early 20s to mid 30s, and if they did a feature on him they didn't want to only be able to ask them the things that she thought would be ok to ask.

That isn't how you make connections in the industry. But I think that was her knowing that Axl wouldn't put up with GQ's shit.

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I've never understood why he doesn't just put on tickets "band will hit stage between 11PM and 11:30PM. Or whatever half hour window will work for him. Pretty sure the start time isn't what pisses people off rather the fucking 2 hour delay with nothing going on. Most venues (US atleast) cut off booze sales fairly early. By the time he hits stage we're half asleep. If he'd simply state on ticket a realistic 30 minute window for when he'll hit stage we could party at bars etc...rather than sit in some boozeless arena for 2 hours people watching. He loses alot of crowd energy by making us basically fall asleep before the show. Unless he likes to be a "bad ass" by sticking it to us and making us wait...a power trip maybe?

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I've never understood why he doesn't just put on tickets "band will hit stage between 11PM and 11:30PM. Or whatever half hour window will work for him. Pretty sure the start time isn't what pisses people off rather the fucking 2 hour delay with nothing going on. Most venues (US atleast) cut off booze sales fairly early. By the time he hits stage we're half asleep. If he'd simply state on ticket a realistic 30 minute window for when he'll hit stage we could party at bars etc...rather than sit in some boozeless arena for 2 hours people watching. He loses alot of crowd energy by making us basically fall asleep before the show. Unless he likes to be a "bad ass" by sticking it to us and making us wait...a power trip maybe?

Nobody understands anything he's done since 1986.

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I've never understood why he doesn't just put on tickets "band will hit stage between 11PM and 11:30PM.

Curfews.

Different towns/venues have different laws.

The band gets paid less for late starts, too.

And it's both start time and nothing to do. Also openers or lack thereof is a problem.

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I've never understood why he doesn't just put on tickets "band will hit stage between 11PM and 11:30PM. Or whatever half hour window will work for him. Pretty sure the start time isn't what pisses people off rather the fucking 2 hour delay with nothing going on. Most venues (US atleast) cut off booze sales fairly early. By the time he hits stage we're half asleep. If he'd simply state on ticket a realistic 30 minute window for when he'll hit stage we could party at bars etc...rather than sit in some boozeless arena for 2 hours people watching. He loses alot of crowd energy by making us basically fall asleep before the show. Unless he likes to be a "bad ass" by sticking it to us and making us wait...a power trip maybe?

Nobody understands anything he's done since 1986.

There's like 6 or 7 people kicking around here who claim to

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I've never understood why he doesn't just put on tickets "band will hit stage between 11PM and 11:30PM. Or whatever half hour window will work for him. Pretty sure the start time isn't what pisses people off rather the fucking 2 hour delay with nothing going on. Most venues (US atleast) cut off booze sales fairly early. By the time he hits stage we're half asleep. If he'd simply state on ticket a realistic 30 minute window for when he'll hit stage we could party at bars etc...rather than sit in some boozeless arena for 2 hours people watching. He loses alot of crowd energy by making us basically fall asleep before the show. Unless he likes to be a "bad ass" by sticking it to us and making us wait...a power trip maybe?

He likely can't do what you're suggesting for the very reason you've given. If GNR tickets came with a disclaimer that the band would likely not hit the stage until 11:00pm or midnight, two things would happen. First, people would perhaps decide not to go knowing the likely start time and this would decrease ticket sales affecting the promoters bottom line. Second, warning of a later start to those who do still intend on going would indeed cause most people not to enter the venue until closer to the stated start time. This suppresses food and alcohol sales at the venue.

While what you suggest would be practical by all accounts with respect the fans, it would not serve the promoter, venue and ticket retailer (ticketmaster). As having some experience when it comes to attending a GNR concert, I'm well aware of the common practices by this band and do exactly what you suggest: I stay at the bars outside the venue until at least 10:30 if not later. It solves the problem of access to liquor, paying a fairer price than venue prices, and entertainment until Axl gets motivated to hit the stage. But such an arraignment doesn't serve the interests of the venue and hence would prefer to keep concert goers in the dark as to the actual start time.

The only solution is one that will never happen: Axl understands and respects not only the economic realities his shows entail but the importance of other people's time and patience by getting his ass on stage at a reasonable time without an unreasonable break between opening band and his band. This will never happen; he's acted this way for over twenty years, he's not about to change now.

In the end, you can't defend the principle of Axl's actions but you can at least tailor your plans to make the experience far less painful. That's really the only choice GNR fans have.

Cheers,

Anderw

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