Jump to content

What's your favorite incarnation of New GNR?


Randy Lahey

Recommended Posts

That is one of the dumbest comparisons that I have ever seen made on this board.

Ron's contributions to CD are exactly equal to Slash's contributions on most of the pre-CD material. That is not opinion, it is fact.

:rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

and you talked dumbest comparisons?

you're dumb nevertheless

Not too bright are you? It's a rhetorical question so you don't need to bother to answer it. You'll understand why as soon as you look up rhetorical. Copy and paste it, I don't have 3 hours to wait for you to get the spelling right.

Appetite might have been 5 guys sitting in a room writing music, but the Illusions sure weren't. Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD.

Let me know if I need to simplify it more for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Appetite might have been 5 guys sitting in a room writing music, but the Illusions sure weren't. Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD.

gotta love when people rewrite history

And you figure this how? Have you not heard the demos? As well as interviews with all members saying that they weren't together for the Illusions recordings?

I don't mind debate, and I will always admit it when I'm wrong, but aside from personal attacks; none of you have provided one shred of evidence to back up your claims.

I can use every emoticon that there is, and I'm more skilled at insulting than most, but I would like a valid discussion here. Is that too much to ask?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that we have the lower echelon of the Slash fans out of the way; is there anybody here that can show me evidence that I'm wrong?

I am pretty sure that I'm right on this, but I am completely open to some intelligent discussion.

Most of the UYI songs were written way back then AFD...

Even the 1989 rehearsals show up to that lineup write songs together. Axl (and Izzy at some points) is the only one, who play the lonely ranger game...

So, yes, mostly you're wrong

"Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD. "

Nope. That's a whole different story...

You just trying to say Slash not contributes on the songs, just got a song and write some solos on songs? :thumbsdown:

Dumb

Edited by Crash Diet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me the current lineup is the best overall as a live band. I love the work that Robin did on CD, but I think DJ does a better job on the old stuff. Buckethead was something special, I really thought he did an amazing job on the old songs when he was able to put his own spin on things; his Nightrain solos were absolutely awesome.

I guess my "dream" lineup for the new band if I'm cycling through the people who participated it would be Buckethead, Ron, Richard, Tommy, Dizzy, Chris and Brain.

Looking forward to hearing the remaining stuff from the Bucket/Brain/Robin era, and really looking forward to material from the current lineup which I think will be more of a blues rock/punk feel than CD but with an avant garde flair thanks to Ron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that we have the lower echelon of the Slash fans out of the way; is there anybody here that can show me evidence that I'm wrong?

I am pretty sure that I'm right on this, but I am completely open to some intelligent discussion.

Most of the UYI songs were written way back then AFD...

Even the 1989 rehearsals show up to that lineup write songs together. Axl (and Izzy at some points) is the only one, who play the lonely ranger game...

So, yes, mostly you're wrong

"Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD. "

Nope. That's a whole different story...

You just trying to say Slash not contributes on the songs, just got a song and write some solos on songs? :thumbsdown:

Dumb

I am pretty sure that English is not your native language, so please forgive me for not understanding everything that you were trying to say there.

The majority of the songs on the Illusions albums were written well after Appetite, I am sorry that you don't know that.

I never tried to say that Slash never contributed to the Illusions. Quite the opposite really. I was saying that Ron's contributions to CD are equally important on the few songs that he was allowed to play on, as Slash's very important contributions to the Illusions.

Once again, can I ask for one of the intelligent Slash fans to provide some evidence that I am wrong?

No offense to anybody else, I just want someone that knows something about the band to discuss things with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that we have the lower echelon of the Slash fans out of the way; is there anybody here that can show me evidence that I'm wrong?

I am pretty sure that I'm right on this, but I am completely open to some intelligent discussion.

Most of the UYI songs were written way back then AFD...

Even the 1989 rehearsals show up to that lineup write songs together. Axl (and Izzy at some points) is the only one, who play the lonely ranger game...

So, yes, mostly you're wrong

"Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD. "

Nope. That's a whole different story...

You just trying to say Slash not contributes on the songs, just got a song and write some solos on songs? :thumbsdown:

Dumb

Once again, can I ask for one of the intelligent Slash fans to provide some evidence that I am wrong?

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited by downzy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Live, the current but the CD lineup especially if it were just Bucket, Robin, Tommy and Brain would have been a ridiculously boss as fuck band for Axl to keep putting albums out with. Imagine a lineup like that had existed and kept going just slamming albums out? Fucking amazing it would have been IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that we have the lower echelon of the Slash fans out of the way; is there anybody here that can show me evidence that I'm wrong?

I am pretty sure that I'm right on this, but I am completely open to some intelligent discussion.

Most of the UYI songs were written way back then AFD...

Even the 1989 rehearsals show up to that lineup write songs together. Axl (and Izzy at some points) is the only one, who play the lonely ranger game...

So, yes, mostly you're wrong

"Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD. "

Nope. That's a whole different story...

You just trying to say Slash not contributes on the songs, just got a song and write some solos on songs? :thumbsdown:

Dumb

Once again, can I ask for one of the intelligent Slash fans to provide some evidence that I am wrong?

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Finally, a Slash fan that I have some respect for. Thank you.

I truly love tour list of 6 songs, I do. But that doesn't exactly equal the whole of the Illusions, Does it?

You can downplay Ron all that you want to. It's not like I give a shit. I actally thought that you would be willing to give credit where it's due. But the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal. Sorry.

Cheers, Jason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Live, the current but the CD lineup especially if it were just Bucket, Robin, Tommy and Brain would have been a ridiculously boss as fuck band for Axl to keep putting albums out with. Imagine a lineup like that had existed and kept going just slamming albums out? Fucking amazing it would have been IMO

Yeah, I have to agree, though I'd trade Brain for Josh Freese. Always thought he was the best drummer GNR ever had (just listen to Oh My God, I think the drumming is the best part of that song). And considering Brain simply copied Josh's drum tracks for the tracks that were around during Josh's time in the band, I'd rather have the guy who wrote those beats.

But yeah, it's a shame we've yet to hear what came out of that lineup.

Cheers,

Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that we have the lower echelon of the Slash fans out of the way; is there anybody here that can show me evidence that I'm wrong?

I am pretty sure that I'm right on this, but I am completely open to some intelligent discussion.

Most of the UYI songs were written way back then AFD...

Even the 1989 rehearsals show up to that lineup write songs together. Axl (and Izzy at some points) is the only one, who play the lonely ranger game...

So, yes, mostly you're wrong

"Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD. "

Nope. That's a whole different story...

You just trying to say Slash not contributes on the songs, just got a song and write some solos on songs? :thumbsdown:

Dumb

Once again, can I ask for one of the intelligent Slash fans to provide some evidence that I am wrong?

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Exactly, it's like on the Led Zeppelin songs where Bonzo gets credit - it's obviously because his drums form a big part of the song ie. Kashmir/When the Levee Breaks. Obviously, normally drums don't get credit on a song though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Finally, a Slash fan that I have some respect for. Thank you.

I truly love tour list of 6 songs, I do. But that doesn't exactly equal the whole of the Illusions, Does it?

You can downplay Ron all that you want to. It's not like I give a shit. I actally thought that you would be willing to give credit where it's due. But the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal. Sorry.

Cheers, Jason

First, I'm not a "Slash Fan" (btw, why do I get the impression that you use such a label like it's an insult?). I'm a fan of facts and speaking with truth. Your argument is there's not much difference between Slash's contribution to the Illusion albums is equal to Ron's contribution to Chinese Democracy. Slash has songwriting credits on nine tracks on the Illusion albums (didn't include Dust N' Bones, Bad Apples in my initial list). Civil War, Locomotive, and Coma are some of the biggest songs on the Illusion albums. Ron has none on Chinese Democracy. Last time I checked nine is nine more than zero. Math was never my strong suit so perhaps I'm wrong. :P

You can say that "the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal," but that's not factually accurate. It's just your uneducated opinion that isn't support by how song writing credits are considered. If it serves your purpose, who am I tell to someone not to believe in falsehoods? Just understand that no one who has a firm grasp on how these things are considered would agree with you.

Ron certainly contributed to Chinese Democracy; I loved his addition to the solo in TWAT and some of his rhythm additions in other songs. But contributing to a song isn't the same as writing a song. Don't believe me? Then I suggest you have a look at royalty check Ron receives for his contributions for Chinese Democracy and compare it to Slash's royalty check for his Use Your Illusion song writing credits. My experience in these matters suggests there will be a huge difference.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited by downzy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Live, the current but the CD lineup especially if it were just Bucket, Robin, Tommy and Brain would have been a ridiculously boss as fuck band for Axl to keep putting albums out with. Imagine a lineup like that had existed and kept going just slamming albums out? Fucking amazing it would have been IMO

Yeah, I have to agree, though I'd trade Brain for Josh Freese. Always thought he was the best drummer GNR ever had (just listen to Oh My God, I think the drumming is the best part of that song). And considering Brain simply copied Josh's drum tracks for the tracks that were around during Josh's time in the band, I'd rather have the guy who wrote those beats.

But yeah, it's a shame we've yet to hear what came out of that lineup.

Cheers,

Andrew

I agree that a number of the drum tracks on the album that Josh created and Brain replicated are great (particularly TWAT, Prostitute and Riad) as well as OMG, but the CD songs where the drumming was Brain's creation were some of the strongest drum tracks on the album (Shackler's, Scraped, Sorry). Also, I think Brain's a better drummer live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ben9785

The 2001-2002 lineup was great, they had an edge and energy, of course Brain, Buckethead and Finck made the foundation of that sound.

I also liked the 2006 lineup, Richard and Robin played off each other well and I like Ron's frantic guitar style. Ron also seemed to really enjoy it more back then, although I know he has since had to deal with the effects of that car accident, but I can't help feeling he knows he can be doing more with his talent.

Edited by ben9785
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, it's like on the Led Zeppelin songs where Bonzo gets credit - it's obviously because his drums form a big part of the song ie. Kashmir/When the Levee Breaks. Obviously, normally drums don't get credit on a song though.

Yeah, I think this was part of the reason why Adler was given song writing credits with respect to AFD. Duff is on record saying that songs like Mr. Brownstown and Rocket Queen would never have happened if it weren't for Steven's drumming.

Drummers almost never get song writing credits and usually the few instances they do, it's because it's so vital to the identity of the song of the lead songwriters are giving their drummer a bone. Song writing credits dictate royalties hence why they're fiercely fought over. If a musician isn't given song writing credits on an album, they're not receiving royalties from organizations like ASCAP that handle such matters.

Anyway, my apologies for co-opting the thread (seems like a habit of mine tonight), but I felt the need to clear up some misconceptions that were being perpetuated by a particular poster.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited by downzy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, it's like on the Led Zeppelin songs where Bonzo gets credit - it's obviously because his drums form a big part of the song ie. Kashmir/When the Levee Breaks. Obviously, normally drums don't get credit on a song though.

Yeah, I think this was part of the reason why Adler was given song writing credits with respect to AFD. Duff is on record saying that songs like Mr. Brownstown and Rocket Queen would never have happened if it weren't for Steven's drumming.

Drummers almost never get song writing credits and usually the few instances they do, it's because it's so vital to the identity of the song of the lead songwriters are giving their drummer a bone. Song writing credits dictate royalties hence why they're fiercely fought over. If a musician isn't given song writing credits on an album, they're not receiving royalties from organizations like ASCAP that handle such matters.

Anyway, my apologies for co-opting the thread (seems like a habit of mine tonight), but I felt the need to clear up some misconceptions that were being perpetuated by a particular poster.

Cheers,

Andrew

Could you imagine Brownstone or Rocket Queen without Adler, especially with Sorum instead? LOL! Those songs would have swung like the rustiest pendulum in the world.

If that's the case though, he (and maybe Matt) should have got credit for Locomotive. (or not because he signed his rights away?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=440194612&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=350180431&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Finally, a Slash fan that I have some respect for. Thank you.

I truly love tour list of 6 songs, I do. But that doesn't exactly equal the whole of the Illusions, Does it?

You can downplay Ron all that you want to. It's not like I give a shit. I actally thought that you would be willing to give credit where it's due. But the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal. Sorry.

Cheers, Jason

First, I'm not a "Slash Fan" (btw, why do I get the impression that you use such a label like it's an insult?). I'm a fan of facts and speaking with truth. Your argument is there's not much difference between Slash's contribution to the Illusion albums is equal to Ron's contribution to Chinese Democracy. Slash has songwriting credits on nine albums on the Illusion albums (didn't include Dust N' Bones, Bad Apples in my initial list). Civil War, Locomotive, and Coma are some of the biggest songs on the Illusion albums. Ron has none on Chinese Democracy. Last time I checked nine is nine more than zero. Math was never my strong suit so perhaps I'm wrong. :P

You can say that "the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal," but that's not factually accurate. It's just your uneducated opinion that isn't support by how song writing credits are considered. If it serves your purpose, who am I tell to someone not to believe in falsehoods? Just understand that no one who has a firm grasp on how these things are considered would agree with you.

Ron certainly contributed to Chinese Democracy; I loved his addition to the solo in TWAT and some of his rhythm additions in other songs. But contributing to a song isn't the same as writing a song. Don't believe me? Then I suggest you have a look at royalty check Ron receives for his contributions for Chinese Democracy and compare it to Slash's royalty check for his Use Your Illusion song writing credits. My experience in these matters suggests there will be a huge difference.

Cheers,

Andrew

Actually, I didn't know that there were 9 albums in the 2 Illusion abums. Please forgive me.

Other than those 9 albums though, Slash's contributions were exactly equal to Ron's contributions to CD. Ron wrote his own solos and leads. If you disagree with that, I truly am sorry for your ignorance.

Love,

Jason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that's the case though, he (and maybe Matt) should have got credit for Locomotive. (or not because he signed his rights away?)

Yeah, who knows what the situation was on that. I know in some cases artists will buy the song writing credits from their creative partners. I believe this is the case with Ozzy who often gave his instrumentalists a flat fee and claimed all song writing credits.

This is only conjecture, but considering Axl provided pretty clear direction to Matt in regards to drumming in November Rain perhaps this was the case with Locomotive. All we really know is that Slash and Axl both didn't feel like Matt's contribution was enough to warrant a song writing credit or are just greedy bastards :P (My guess is on the first possibility).

Cheers,

Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...