What's your favorite incarnation of New GNR?

[shotgunblues1978]

There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=440194612&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=350180431&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

I understand that you are referring to a previous post, but it's worth pointing out that ASCAP credits are not the be all end all. Often times they are the result of compromises within the band, legal judgments, and to keep people happy

For example the entire band is credited as writers of Patience but everybody knows that Izzy wrote the entire song. The credits in the UYI booklets indicate who really wrote the songs, and the band members all admit that the songwriting process was extremely separatist on those albums. But Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff receive writing credits on all of the UYI songs, probably based on some sort of agreement or legal wrangling

Let's put it this way: Slash is credited as a writer on My World according to the ASCAP

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=430429495&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start=1

[Silent Jay]

There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=440194612&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=350180431&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

" I wrote the guitar melodies, which are quite important in this song, I think. Because they are easily recognizable. That's why Axl credited me for these melodies ..." Slash on Estranged

Edited May 27, 2012 by tranconneuse

[downzy]

There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=440194612&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=350180431&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

I stand corrected then. There must have been a reshuffling of song writing credits after the initial release of the Illusion albums. Likely a result of a lawsuit settlement between the original members (sans Adler). I remember in the making of Estranged video Slash was joking around about asking Axl for song writing credits regarding his guitar solos of which Axl thought otherwise. Something must have happened that forced Axl's hand. It would be interesting to know how that went down.

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Finally, a Slash fan that I have some respect for. Thank you.

I truly love tour list of 6 songs, I do. But that doesn't exactly equal the whole of the Illusions, Does it?

You can downplay Ron all that you want to. It's not like I give a shit. I actally thought that you would be willing to give credit where it's due. But the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal. Sorry.

Cheers, Jason

First, I'm not a "Slash Fan" (btw, why do I get the impression that you use such a label like it's an insult?). I'm a fan of facts and speaking with truth. Your argument is there's not much difference between Slash's contribution to the Illusion albums is equal to Ron's contribution to Chinese Democracy. Slash has songwriting credits on nine albums on the Illusion albums (didn't include Dust N' Bones, Bad Apples in my initial list). Civil War, Locomotive, and Coma are some of the biggest songs on the Illusion albums. Ron has none on Chinese Democracy. Last time I checked nine is nine more than zero. Math was never my strong suit so perhaps I'm wrong.

You can say that "the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal," but that's not factually accurate. It's just your uneducated opinion that isn't support by how song writing credits are considered. If it serves your purpose, who am I tell to someone not to believe in falsehoods? Just understand that no one who has a firm grasp on how these things are considered would agree with you.

Ron certainly contributed to Chinese Democracy; I loved his addition to the solo in TWAT and some of his rhythm additions in other songs. But contributing to a song isn't the same as writing a song. Don't believe me? Then I suggest you have a look at royalty check Ron receives for his contributions for Chinese Democracy and compare it to Slash's royalty check for his Use Your Illusion song writing credits. My experience in these matters suggests there will be a huge difference.

Cheers,

Andrew

Actually, I didn't know that there were 9 albums in the 2 Illusion abums. Please forgive me.

Other than those 9 albums though, Slash's contributions were exactly equal to Ron's contributions to CD. Ron wrote his own solos and leads. If you disagree with that, I truly am sorry for your ignorance.

Love,

Jason

I meant tracks, and I think you know that. But as was brought to my attention, Slash also received song writing credit for Estranged and November Rain.

Do me and everyone else a favour and have a look through ASCAP's listing for Chinese Democracy song writing credits and tell me where you find Ron's name:

Guns N' Roses ASCAP Song Writing Credits

Let me know if you find one. Do the same for the Illusions material and see how many times Slash's name pops up.

Ron contributed to songs that were already finished. He didn't write the song. There's a huge difference. You can call me ignorant if it makes you feel better, but you're just wrong. And kind of sad if I'm being honest.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Damn_Smooth]

There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=440194612&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=350180431&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=tswpbv&results_pp=30&start=1

I stand corrected then. There must have been a reshuffling of song writing credits after the initial release of the Illusion albums. Likely a result of a lawsuit settlement between the original members (sans Adler). I remember in the making of Estranged video Slash was joking around about asking Axl for song writing credits regarding his guitar solos of which Axl thought otherwise. Something must have happened that forced Axl's hand. It would be interesting to know how that went down.

Coma

Garden of Eden

Locomotive

Civil War

Don't Damn Me

Bad Apples

Get in the Ring

Not sure if you truly understand how song writing credits work. You do not get a song writing credit for adding a guitar solo (unless it's agreed upon by all parties that the guitar solo or rhythm section is the basis for the song). Generally, song writing credit is given only to those who contribute the to melody/song structure/lyrics of a song. There's a reason why Slash didn't receive credits for November Rain or Estranged as the structure/melody/lyrics were composed by Axl with Slash filling in a solo here and there. Not the same with the songs listed above.

If Ron was an actual song writer with any the Chinese Democracy material, he would have received credit in the liner notes. Since his name is not listed anywhere in this respect, you're analogy ultimately fails.

And before you question what do I know, I'm a registered member of both ASCAP and SOCAN that deals with issues of songwriting credits and royalties.

Next time you want to challenge someone to the facts, please have some.

Cheers,

Andrew

Finally, a Slash fan that I have some respect for. Thank you.

I truly love tour list of 6 songs, I do. But that doesn't exactly equal the whole of the Illusions, Does it?

You can downplay Ron all that you want to. It's not like I give a shit. I actally thought that you would be willing to give credit where it's due. But the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal. Sorry.

Cheers, Jason

First, I'm not a "Slash Fan" (btw, why do I get the impression that you use such a label like it's an insult?). I'm a fan of facts and speaking with truth. Your argument is there's not much difference between Slash's contribution to the Illusion albums is equal to Ron's contribution to Chinese Democracy. Slash has songwriting credits on nine albums on the Illusion albums (didn't include Dust N' Bones, Bad Apples in my initial list). Civil War, Locomotive, and Coma are some of the biggest songs on the Illusion albums. Ron has none on Chinese Democracy. Last time I checked nine is nine more than zero. Math was never my strong suit so perhaps I'm wrong.

You can say that "the difference between Slash and Ron is actually minimal," but that's not factually accurate. It's just your uneducated opinion that isn't support by how song writing credits are considered. If it serves your purpose, who am I tell to someone not to believe in falsehoods? Just understand that no one who has a firm grasp on how these things are considered would agree with you.

Ron certainly contributed to Chinese Democracy; I loved his addition to the solo in TWAT and some of his rhythm additions in other songs. But contributing to a song isn't the same as writing a song. Don't believe me? Then I suggest you have a look at royalty check Ron receives for his contributions for Chinese Democracy and compare it to Slash's royalty check for his Use Your Illusion song writing credits. My experience in these matters suggests there will be a huge difference.

Cheers,

Andrew

Actually, I didn't know that there were 9 albums in the 2 Illusion abums. Please forgive me.

Other than those 9 albums though, Slash's contributions were exactly equal to Ron's contributions to CD. Ron wrote his own solos and leads. If you disagree with that, I truly am sorry for your ignorance.

Love,

Jason

I meant tracks, and I think you know that. But as was brought to my attention, Slash also received song writing credit for Estranged and November Rain.

Do me and everyone else a favour and have a look through ASCAP's listing for Chinese Democracy song writing credits and tell me where you find Ron's name:

Guns N' Roses ASCAP Song Writing Credits

Let me know if you find one. Do the same for the Illusions material and see how many times Slash's name pops up.

Ron contributed to songs that were already finished. He didn't write the song. There's a huge difference. You can call me ignorant if it makes you feel better, but you're just wrong. And kind of sad if I'm being honest.

Cheers,

Andrew

Actually, I think that anyone with any semblance of intelligence would realise that I am talking about the songs that Slash has no writing credits for. Are you stupid enough to believe that his contributions to those songs were insignificant? If you are, there is nothing that I can do to help you. Honestly, I wouldn't help you if I could. I prefer to let ignorance live in bliss. Sorry.

[downzy]

Actually, I think that anyone with any semblance of intelligence would realise that I am talking about the songs that Slash has no writing credits for. Are you stupid enough to believe that his contributions to those songs were insignificant? If you are, there is nothing that I can do to help you. Honestly, I wouldn't help you if I could. I prefer to let ignorance live in bliss. Sorry.

But that wasn't your original argument was it?

Appetite might have been 5 guys sitting in a room writing music, but the Illusions sure weren't. Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD.

Those are your words. You didn't say anything about songs that Slash had no writing credits for. You were arguing that Ron deserved as much credit for his contributions to Chinese Democracy as Slash does for his contributions to the Illusions material. Hey, I wasn't the one making such a misguided and poorly informed argument? I just called you out on being factually incorrect and now you're trying to weasel your way out by suggesting that what you really meant were the songs that Slash didn't receive song writing credits for. Sorry, not what you were originally arguing as noted above. According to the Illusion booklets Slash has song writing credits for nine songs, including some of GNR's biggest and most popular by the hardcore fan base (Civil War, Locomotive, Coma). According to ASCAP, Ron has no song writing credits for Chinese Democracy. Seems to me that Slash's contributions matter a tad more than what Ron contributed to Chinese Democracy if we're adding up song credits.

And now I'm done wasting any more of my time on such a ridiculous argument. Just another reminder why it's best to ignore the trolls underneath the bridge.

Cheers,

Andrew

P.S. I do sincerely apologize to the creator of this thread. Last time I post about this subject in this thread. Mods, I suggest perhaps moving this to a separate thread.

Edited May 27, 2012 by downzy

[Damn_Smooth]

Actually, I think that anyone with any semblance of intelligence would realise that I am talking about the songs that Slash has no writing credits for. Are you stupid enough to believe that his contributions to those songs were insignificant? If you are, there is nothing that I can do to help you. Honestly, I wouldn't help you if I could. I prefer to let ignorance live in bliss. Sorry.

But that wasn't your original argument was it?

Appetite might have been 5 guys sitting in a room writing music, but the Illusions sure weren't. Slash wrote his solos to mostly completed songs, just like Ron did on CD.

Those are your words. You didn't say anything about songs that Slash had no writing credits for. You were arguing that Ron deserved as much credit for his contributions to Chinese Democracy as Slash does for his contributions to the Illusions material. Hey, I wasn't the one making such a misguided and poorly informed argument? I just called you out on being factually incorrect and now you're trying to weasel your way out by suggesting that what you really meant were the songs that Slash didn't receive song writing credits for. Sorry, not what you were originally arguing as noted above. According to the Illusion booklets Slash has song writing credits for nine songs, including some of GNR's biggest and most popular by the hardcore fan base (Civil War, Locomotive, Coma). According to ASCAP, Ron has no song writing credits for Chinese Democracy. Seems to me that Slash's contributions matter a tad more than what Ron contributed to Chinese Democracy if we're adding up song credits.

And now I'm done wasting any more of my time on such a ridiculous argument. Just another reminder why it's best to ignore the cupcakes underneath the bridge.

Cheers,

Andrew

P.S. I do sincerely apologize to the creator of this thread. Last time I post about this subject in this thread. Mods, I suggest perhaps moving this to a separate thread.

You are definitely right. It was my bad that I didn't realise that 9 was the majority of 30. Sorry.

Since you apparently work for ASCAP, can you please tell me if Slash has writing credits on the majority of Appetite too?

Edit: Quote what I really have said instead of what fits your agenda next time. Thanks.

That is one of the dumbest comparisons that I have ever seen made on this board.

Ron's contributions to CD are exactly equal to Slash's contributions on most of the pre-CD material. That is not opinion, it is fact.

How you choose to deal with that fact is up to you.

Take special note of the word "most" there.

Not that I give you enough credit to know what it means, but hey, miracles do happen.

Love,

Jason

Edited May 27, 2012 by Damn_Smooth

[Guest Broskirose]

I don't believe in the phrase New GNR because it's all just GNR to me and I'm not exactly sure where the "New" period starts or ends. I also can't really chose a favorite lineup because I like them all in their own ways.

However, this lineup will always hold a special place in my GNR fanboyness

Edited May 27, 2012 by Broskirose