Do you think Axl's camp could be convinced that leaking one demo on purpose is an ace move?

[The Wicked Hand]

Heres the deal.............

Its all up to Axl and he aint showin his cards and may never.........

[dalsh327]

What you say makes sense on a certain level, but it still comes down to when is the next album going to come out? If it's sometime this year, then you're probably right. But what if it isn't? If it's not coming out for a year, or two, or three, or the more likely scenario that nobody has any fucking idea when it will come out, then releasing a single would be a brilliant move in the short term.

Even if an album didn't end up being released until a year or two (and honestly even three) years from now, I still think it would be very damaging. Once you start getting to four, five or possibly even more years from now, then it's a different story because enough time will have gone by for anticipation to have possibly built back up again.

But none of us know for sure what the plan is, how much the plan will change, etc. In theory, if the idea was to drop an album in a year or two, I still think putting out a one off single right now would be a very poor decision.

You're dead on though, it does come down to when the next album would be coming out.

Another thing to consider is this, let's say hypothetically the band plans to tour the rest of the year, take a year off and then return in late 2013 with a new album and tour. A one off single right now, if poorly received, would really harm things far beyond simply wasting the anticipation that could have been saved for the lead single from the record.

On the other side of the coin, if the one off single was very well received, well, the odds of GNR having a big hit again are slim to begin with and it would have been VERY foolish to waste a song that has hit potential instead of saving it to be the lead single for the record.

So it's really a lose/lose scenario.

Again, my views on this change completely if the next full length is still 4-5 years away, but I really don't think that's the case. I think the band will finish the touring for Chinese this year, take some time off, and then return with a self-titled record.

I guess when you look at the reactions to "Civil War" and "Oh My God", that might give some idea of interest in new music, so it's not like GnR has never put new songs out before the album was out, they just didn't put them out as singles.

Did OMG hurt GnR at the time it came out? I don't remember if there was positive or negative responses on radio or in forums at the time.

Demos helping or hurting's another story. Case in point - "November Rain" was making the bootleg rounds for 2 years, and when GnR went on tour in '91, everyone in the audience knew the words to it. Axl went on his rant about bootlegs, but that was a time when people were selling them in record stores. I think the bootleg helped, but I can't see Axl wanting that out there, at least until the song was finished.

I don't know if Axl's intentionally leaked demos and then had his lawyers do a cease and desist, at least in the case where Eddie Trunk played a copy he got from Mike Piazza.

If they were to release a new song: they could sell it or give it away for free, but they would get all sorts of info - 1 song per email - where they live so they can plan playing cities they might pass over otherwise, their ages, how many copies they could estimate a new GnR CD would sell, and it's info the band could get directly through their own website. No record company taking their share.

I'd like to see them plan on putting 2 new CDs out next year, but spread the release dates over the year, even if they were EP style, 7-8 songs each.

[finck6]

What you say makes sense on a certain level, but it still comes down to when is the next album going to come out? If it's sometime this year, then you're probably right. But what if it isn't? If it's not coming out for a year, or two, or three, or the more likely scenario that nobody has any fucking idea when it will come out, then releasing a single would be a brilliant move in the short term.

Even if an album didn't end up being released until a year or two (and honestly even three) years from now, I still think it would be very damaging. Once you start getting to four, five or possibly even more years from now, then it's a different story because enough time will have gone by for anticipation to have possibly built back up again.

But none of us know for sure what the plan is, how much the plan will change, etc. In theory, if the idea was to drop an album in a year or two, I still think putting out a one off single right now would be a very poor decision.

You're dead on though, it does come down to when the next album would be coming out.

Another thing to consider is this, let's say hypothetically the band plans to tour the rest of the year, take a year off and then return in late 2013 with a new album and tour. A one off single right now, if poorly received, would really harm things far beyond simply wasting the anticipation that could have been saved for the lead single from the record.

On the other side of the coin, if the one off single was very well received, well, the odds of GNR having a big hit again are slim to begin with and it would have been VERY foolish to waste a song that has hit potential instead of saving it to be the lead single for the record.

So it's really a lose/lose scenario.

Again, my views on this change completely if the next full length is still 4-5 years away, but I really don't think that's the case. I think the band will finish the touring for Chinese this year, take some time off, and then return with a self-titled record.

I guess when you look at the reactions to "Civil War" and "Oh My God", that might give some idea of interest in new music, so it's not like GnR has never put new songs out before the album was out, they just didn't put them out as singles.

Did OMG hurt GnR at the time it came out? I don't remember if there was positive or negative responses on radio or in forums at the time.

Demos helping or hurting's another story. Case in point - "November Rain" was making the bootleg rounds for 2 years, and when GnR went on tour in '91, everyone in the audience knew the words to it. Axl went on his rant about bootlegs, but that was a time when people were selling them in record stores. I think the bootleg helped, but I can't see Axl wanting that out there, at least until the song was finished.

I don't know if Axl's intentionally leaked demos and then had his lawyers do a cease and desist, at least in the case where Eddie Trunk played a copy he got from Mike Piazza.

If they were to release a new song: they could sell it or give it away for free, but they would get all sorts of info - 1 song per email - where they live so they can plan playing cities they might pass over otherwise, their ages, how many copies they could estimate a new GnR CD would sell, and it's info the band could get directly through their own website. No record company taking their share.

I'd like to see them plan on putting 2 new CDs out next year, but spread the release dates over the year, even if they were EP style, 7-8 songs each.

the november rain demos prove a new demo is ace

[The_Universal_Sigh]

I love you Popcorn, honestly I do, but do you really think that someone from the Guns camp won't read this thread and catch on to us?

We would have had a much better shot organising this through PMs.

So the point of the thread is to get Axl's camp to do something, you're suggesting they may read this thread which would tell them our (Popcorn's at least) goals, and yet you're saying this should be done via PMs instead?!

I don't get this post.

Axl Salinger,

Yes, a well received single would obviously boost anticipation. However, the odds of GNR ever having a hit again are very slim and if they have a single with hit potential and they are lucky enough to have it do well, why would you want to have that big boost a year or two before the album comes out instead of having the boost right before the record releases? Those casual fans that say, "whoa, this is cool" will probably follow that up with, "when's the album coming out?"

Why in the world would you want to generate those emotions a year or two before the record hits instead of closer to the release? It doesn't make any sense.

I understand people wanting to hear new music ASAP. I get it. However, I grow tired of people saying something is a smart business move when really it's just something they want or wish would happen.

Because you could release another single closer to the release? Lots of bands do this especially if they're on tour and have been out of the limelight/public eye for a while. The only reason it's a problem is because Axl won't go into the studio to actually make a record. He thinks it's something it isn't.

[Coma16]

Some of you seem to think that hit records appear out of thin air. There is a lot of planning, market manipulation, favors, timing, exclusivity arrangements, etc. that go in to even having a chance of getting any sort of sizeable airplay.

The next new song the public hears by GNR needs to be very carefully planned and selected. The first new music to be heard from Axl Rose in five or six years (or however long it ends up being) will get a lot of initial attention, and if it's the right song, there is an outside chance of having some success at radio, which could help properly set up the launch of an album.

Offering a one off on iTunes to "promote" the tour is literally one of the worst moves that could be made.

Debuting anything new on the tour is literally one of the worst moves that could be made.

Let the band finish working Chinese this year. If you're tired of the record or you've already seen the tour, there are many other things you can do with your life.

But this isn't the Chinese Democracy tour anymore, or is it?

[wasted]

Freedom never ends.

[The_Universal_Sigh]

Some of you seem to think that hit records appear out of thin air. There is a lot of planning, market manipulation, favors, timing, exclusivity arrangements, etc. that go in to even having a chance of getting any sort of sizeable airplay.

The next new song the public hears by GNR needs to be very carefully planned and selected. The first new music to be heard from Axl Rose in five or six years (or however long it ends up being) will get a lot of initial attention, and if it's the right song, there is an outside chance of having some success at radio, which could help properly set up the launch of an album.

Offering a one off on iTunes to "promote" the tour is literally one of the worst moves that could be made.

Debuting anything new on the tour is literally one of the worst moves that could be made.

Let the band finish working Chinese this year. If you're tired of the record or you've already seen the tour, there are many other things you can do with your life.

But this isn't the Chinese Democracy tour anymore, or is it?

Man I'm glad I have MSL's posts blocked now lol. Fuck. "Offering a one off on iTunes to "promote" the tour is literally one of the worst moves that could be made."

Ya. The album came out 4 fucking years ago and releasing a new song is "literally one of the worst moves they could make". You guys didn't know that if they released a new song than the sales for Chi Dem would suddenly stop and the album fall out of the public eye!?! You didn't know people would stop going to their shows because they thought it was the Chi Dem tour they don't care about this new stuff!

Hilarious.

You're over thinking it. They're not going to have a hit.... ever. No careful planning or that shit is necessary. You have a big fan base, release music and it will sell fairly well. No one cares about hit records, not me, not you, not Axl as evidenced by his lack of promotion.

[The_Universal_Sigh]

I find it interesting that somebody would block my posts, but continue to respond to my points. Allergic to the facts to a hilarious degree.

The problem with releasing a one off single isn't that it would hurt Chinese. The problem is that it would tremendously damage the ability to generate mainstream interest and attention in the "first new GNR song in ____ years" when it's time to launch the next album.

To tell me I'm over thinking it is hilarious as well and shows your naivete. You obviously have no idea the time, money and energy that goes into setting up a new record.

It's also very revealing that you would attempt to tell me what Axl cares about. As if any of us have any idea what goes through his head.

Maybe Axl cared so much about how promotion was handled that when he wasn't happy with the plans, he refused to cooperate. You have no way of knowing either way.

GNR literally has one of the least intelligent fanbases of any rock band I've ever seen. It's very sad.

Since I knew this was in reply to me I clicked it. From now on though, I'm not reading any of your "facts" or rather opinions.

How would it "hurt" chinese? You Axl fans are so wrapped up in this made up fancy world. There's nothing to "hurt" from Chinese. The public has stated Chinese is over. Axl could tour ten more years for it and release no new music and it wouldn't hurt it, he could release a new album free online tomorrow and it wouldn't hurt it. Actually that, or more realistically releasing a one off single, would BOOST sales of CD as it would put nu gnr back in the minds of the people. That's the point. That's a reason bands like Radiohead are so successful. They released a one off in 2009 for free. It created an internet buzz and kept the fanbase interested and excited for the next project.... which came two years later. This MSL guy knows more about modern marketing than Radiohead though, I'm sure. They've also released singles since their last album (last year) that had nothing to do with that album but drew attention back to it as all the articles mentioning the new singles as a rule mentioned the last album. The public moves on so quickly it's stupid to pretend like this tour 4 years late is the right direction and anything else would "hurt chinese". Releasing a single, like I said, would get chinese mentioned all over again as it hasn't been mentioned in years except briefly around HOF.

You're over thinking it. It's one song, to stir up the fan base, not one song to score a number one hit, make a video and release an imminent album. You don't know how the modern music world works. Beck does this, Radiohead does this, Smashing Pumpkins does this, Nickelback fucking does this.

If Axl really truly wanted a hit single he would have promoted it unless he's a moron and thinks a song can be a hit without promotion. Which he's not.

GNR does have the stupidest, most bull-headed fan base ever.

Edited May 28, 2012 by The_Universal_Sigh

[Haters Gonna Hate]

But how long would the leak be....can't see them leaking a whole song on there own

Edited May 28, 2012 by Haters Gonna Hate

[AndreCCorreia]

A leak could go both ways. I guess it depends on when Axl wants to launch the countdown for the new album. If the new album is not even close to be released, then perhaps it could be considered a precipitated move to release a leak.... if Axl is planning it for this fall, then it would only do good...

I think if it's an alternative version of the song, it won't do any harm to release it. how bad can it be?...

If it wasn't for the leaks, chinese democracy would never have half the success that it had... no one was even interested... except us. All the controversy that there was around what happened to skwerl and the leaks in general was what promoted CD.

The leaks helped promoting the album and it gave even more buzz then what was expected...

i say release one or two tracks and release the album in November or March 2013

Edited May 28, 2012 by AndreCCorreia

[GET OFF AXLS BACK]

The whole point of leaks is that they ramp up excitement for an album due to be released. I don't see a GnR record this year, in fact I would say the end of 2013 at the earliest is more likely which means a leak in late summer to build things up nicely.

[tat2d1]

I'd like to see them release a single, or even just a leftover tune to a soundtrack or something. Bands do this & then include said song as a "bonus" when their next full legth album comes out. Axl's heyday is over, GnR will most likely never be as huge as they once were. I wish Axl would just go the Alice Cooper route and release albums that he is happy with, without caring whether he gets in the top ten or whatthefuckever. He'll always be able to pull a decent crowd, because whether you love him or hate him, people are still somewhat fascinated with Axl Rose.

[SONOFABITCH]

I am hearing a lot of the "the band needs to do this" or "the band needs to do that."

Not so.

Since Axl owns the band name, he can continue touring and have succesful ticket sales, play the same set list, and still make a lot of money. He doesn't need to do anything.

[dalsh327]

I am hearing a lot of the "the band needs to do this" or "the band needs to do that."

Not so.

Since Axl owns the band name, he can continue touring and have succesful ticket sales, play the same set list, and still make a lot of money. He doesn't need to do anything.

Billy Joel can announce a date at Madison Square Garden and sell it out, and it's been around 20 years since he put new music out. He was younger than Axl when he decided to "retire".

[dalsh327]

I understand that it's something you'd like. I'd like it too.

Axl's heyday may be over, but GNR is still a big brand name capable of doing big business.

For a major legacy act like GNR, it would not be in their best interest to debut any new music until it's time to release the proper first single for the next album. The next song the public hears from GNR is going to get a lot of attention and it would be foolish to waste that on some soundtrack or a one off single on itunes.

It can certainly be frustrating for fans to have to wait so long for new music. The future of the industry will most likely be a steady stream of singles of EPs, but we're not at that point yet, especially for an act that appeals to an old (and less tech savvy) audience.

So for the past 5 years, how have people been hearing new songs? A lot of people don't listen to radio. It seems like it's all word of mouth and promoted by artists at award shows, and not as much by record companies & music videos. You Tube wasn't around in 99-02, and just barely getting started in '06. Even from the time Chinese Democracy was released to now, a lot of changes have happened.

[finck6]

I am hearing a lot of the "the band needs to do this" or "the band needs to do that."

Not so.

Since Axl owns the band name, he can continue touring and have succesful ticket sales, play the same set list, and still make a lot of money. He doesn't need to do anything.

Billy Joel can announce a date at Madison Square Garden and sell it out, and it's been around 20 years since he put new music out. He was younger than Axl when he decided to "retire".

great point. difference between billy joel and guns n roses is billy joel released a ton more studio albums of new material than guns n roses has. billy can afford to do the same setlist at MSG. because billy has nothing left to prove in the music industry to critics or fans

[tat2d1]

For a major legacy act like GNR, it would not be in their best interest to debut any new music until it's time to release the proper first single for the next album. The next song the public hears from GNR is going to get a lot of attention and it would be foolish to waste that on some soundtrack or a one off single on itunes.

That is your opinion and you are rightly entitled to it..... I don't think it's gonna make as big of a difference as you think. Yeah, a new GnR tune would get alot of attention...at first. Then it will be on to the next thing- people seem to have short attention spans these days. And that is regardless of whether it's just a one off single or the lead single to a new album. I do think that a new single should serve some sort of purpose though, even if it's just to promote another round of touring.

[SONOFABITCH]

I am hearing a lot of the "the band needs to do this" or "the band needs to do that."

Not so.

Actually I agree with you. Axl can't draw like he could with the real GNR. However, he can still draw enough to be comfortable. He is in a pretty comfortable spot. The days of believing he can ressurect rock n roll are long gone for me. But my point is if he wanted to release more music, or needed to, he'd be doing it.

Since Axl owns the band name, he can continue touring and have succesful ticket sales, play the same set list, and still make a lot of money. He doesn't need to do anything.

Billy Joel can announce a date at Madison Square Garden and sell it out, and it's been around 20 years since he put new music out. He was younger than Axl when he decided to "retire".

[gavgnr]

Some great comments in this thread, but for me i'd love to know some more details about the blood in the water leak...

[phaeryen]

Axl is obsessive-compulsive towards his music as any neurotic rock'n roll hermit god should be, so the answer is a resounding NO.

[rendestroi95]

i was thinking about something like the campaign for GNR play on RIR and also the Estranged campaing

ron was getting crazy, every single stream, people talking about estranged, and they played, people sending tweets to Axl, Dj and everybody

we have to tell' em that we want something new

Edited May 28, 2012 by rendestroi95

[Damn_Smooth]

I love you Popcorn, honestly I do, but do you really think that someone from the Guns camp won't read this thread and catch on to us?

We would have had a much better shot organising this through PMs.

So the point of the thread is to get Axl's camp to do something, you're suggesting they may read this thread which would tell them our (Popcorn's at least) goals, and yet you're saying this should be done via PMs instead?!

I don't get this post.

Worded poorly, I agree. Alcohol can sometimes have that effect on a post.

My intention was that we could have come up with something more persuading to get them to release something by organising our efforts through PMs.

Is that clearer for you now?