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What if other band members turned up late?


izzydoezit

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Every former member of Guns n Roses owns a piece of the sound and the name. No one's denying that. That's why SLash is comfortable letting Axl have the name, because he knows in the court of public perception, he's associated with Guns n Roses forever. If it was truly a solo project, I believe Axl would exert much more control over the sound, and he spoke to this point in the chats. He said a solo album would be more instrumental.

Here's the deal. You either believe in evolution or you don't.

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It walks like a solo project, it talks like a solo project, it's a solo project. With the legal powers that be to call it a band. And that's ok, it doesn't mean the music can't be enjoyed for what it is, but most people don't digest this as "Guns N' Roses" or even a band, and that's just a fact. And personally, I think that view is justified.

Sure, sure, use the argument that Bucket wrote the guitar for this, and Robin wrote the guitar for that, blah, blah, blah. Most solo artists do use outside musicians to contribute to make their dreams a reality, all the time. Solo artists such as Michael Jackson, Petty (solo), Lenny Kravitz, etc., have outsiders come in, throw their spin on things, and see how well it compliments their directions, and have full and total control as to what to do with it. All the time. It's a common practice among these types. Same thing Axl currently does with nu guns. The nu guys have said outright, more than once, that their main job was to try to make Axl's dream a reality. Axl wrote every lyric to every song. Axl decides what part is to be used, what part gets edited, what part goes out the window, and what part best suits his direction without even consulting anybody. We know from Brian May that Axl changed his Catcher solo, without consultation, to better match what he (and he only) wanted for the song. The same thing more than likely happen to the other nu guys, which kinda takes "creative stamps" away to a big degree. Axl decides when it's time to hit up the studio. Axl decides when it's time to tour, regardless of what the others may have planned. Most of the other guys don't even seem to know what the game plan is half of the time, as, "Axl's in charge with that type of "business related" stuff" (paraphrased from a Tommy interview from the fall). One man is in control of virtually everything in every way, shape, and form, and it's his way or the highway in virtually every aspect. That's the definition of a solo project to a t.

And again, that's cool. I guess most people would just prefer that he calls it what it clearly is instead of milking the success of a name with historical value. Especially nowadays where it seems like he's doing nothing but just that.

As for other bands, we can go back and forth on that literally until the end of time. A lot of the common examples such as Megadeth and Smashing Pumpkins are obviously comparing apples to oranges, and then even the ones that are similar to Axl's situation goes back to "two wrongs don't make a right". It goes on and on and on. But from what we know and read, this "band" is operating more like a solo artist does as I described in this post. Yadda, Yadda.

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It walks like a solo project, it talks like a solo project, it's a solo project. With the legal powers that be to call it a band. And that's ok, it doesn't mean the music can't be enjoyed for what it is, but most people don't digest this as "Guns N' Roses" or even a band, and that's just a fact. And personally, I think that view is justified.

Sure, sure, use the argument that Bucket wrote the guitar for this, and Robin wrote the guitar for that, blah, blah, blah. Most solo artists do use outside musicians to contribute to make their dreams a reality, all the time. Solo artists such as Michael Jackson, Petty (solo), Lenny Kravitz, etc., have outsiders come in, throw their spin on things, and see how well it compliments their directions, and have full and total control as to what to do with it. All the time. It's a common practice among these types. Same thing Axl currently does with nu guns. The nu guys have said outright, more than once, that their main job was to try to make Axl's dream a reality. Axl wrote every lyric to every song. Axl decides what part is to be used, what part gets edited, what part goes out the window, and what part best suits his direction without even consulting anybody. We know from Brian May that Axl changed his Catcher solo, without consultation, to better match what he (and he only) wanted for the song. The same thing more than likely happen to the other nu guys, which kinda takes "creative stamps" away to a big degree. Axl decides when it's time to hit up the studio. Axl decides when it's time to tour, regardless of what the others may have planned. Most of the other guys don't even seem to know what the game plan is half of the time, as, "Axl's in charge with that type of "business related" stuff" (paraphrased from a Tommy interview from the fall). One man is in control of virtually everything in every way, shape, and form, and it's his way or the highway in virtually every aspect. That's the definition of a solo project to a t.

And again, that's cool. I guess most people would just prefer that he calls it what it clearly is instead of milking the success of a name with historical value. Especially nowadays where it seems like he's doing nothing but just that.

As for other bands, we can go back and forth on that literally until the end of time. A lot of the common examples such as Megadeth and Smashing Pumpkins are obviously comparing apples to oranges, and then even the ones that are similar to Axl's situation goes back to "two wrongs don't make a right". It goes on and on and on. But from what we know and read, this "band" is operating more like a solo artist does as I described in this post. Yadda, Yadda.

Why does every topic end up in an argument? :shrugs:

It was funny till this all started up. :anger:

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It walks like a solo project, it talks like a solo project, it's a solo project. With the legal powers that be to call it a band. And that's ok, it doesn't mean the music can't be enjoyed for what it is, but most people don't digest this as "Guns N' Roses" or even a band, and that's just a fact. And personally, I think that view is justified.

Sure, sure, use the argument that Bucket wrote the guitar for this, and Robin wrote the guitar for that, blah, blah, blah. Most solo artists do use outside musicians to contribute to make their dreams a reality, all the time. Solo artists such as Michael Jackson, Petty (solo), Lenny Kravitz, etc., have outsiders come in, throw their spin on things, and see how well it compliments their directions, and have full and total control as to what to do with it. All the time. It's a common practice among these types. Same thing Axl currently does with nu guns. The nu guys have said outright, more than once, that their main job was to try to make Axl's dream a reality. Axl wrote every lyric to every song. Axl decides what part is to be used, what part gets edited, what part goes out the window, and what part best suits his direction without even consulting anybody. We know from Brian May that Axl changed his Catcher solo, without consultation, to better match what he (and he only) wanted for the song. The same thing more than likely happen to the other nu guys, which kinda takes "creative stamps" away to a big degree. Axl decides when it's time to hit up the studio. Axl decides when it's time to tour, regardless of what the others may have planned. Most of the other guys don't even seem to know what the game plan is half of the time, as, "Axl's in charge with that type of "business related" stuff" (paraphrased from a Tommy interview from the fall). One man is in control of virtually everything in every way, shape, and form, and it's his way or the highway in virtually every aspect. That's the definition of a solo project to a t.

And again, that's cool. I guess most people would just prefer that he calls it what it clearly is instead of milking the success of a name with historical value. Especially nowadays where it seems like he's doing nothing but just that.

As for other bands, we can go back and forth on that literally until the end of time. A lot of the common examples such as Megadeth and Smashing Pumpkins are obviously comparing apples to oranges, and then even the ones that are similar to Axl's situation goes back to "two wrongs don't make a right". It goes on and on and on. But from what we know and read, this "band" is operating more like a solo artist does as I described in this post. Yadda, Yadda.

Why does every topic end up in an argument? :shrugs:

It was funny till this all started up. :anger:

I did not start this argument in this thread. I was just adding my two cents to a discussion already taking place, and most of the thread anyways.

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is

Axl runs the show.

All the more reason it's not a "band". It should be Axl solo.

Oh nice try. Well maybe you need to freshen up on what the word "band" means. I mean, seriously. Axl didn't dictate every single note, beat, and melody for Chinese Democracy. No offense, but it's really annoying how people are portraying Axl like Chuck Berry or something. He's the leader of the band. Y'know... a lot of bands have leaders. Sometimes they're called "band leaders." But seriously. Chinese Democracy is not a solo project. Do you know whyyyy? Because Buckethead and Finck have their stamp all over that album.

Keep telling yourself and others it's not a band. Keep calling it "Axl's solo project" if that's what makes you happy. It doesn't change the fact that it is, and will continue to be, Guns n Roses. It's a band, and Axl's at the helm. But a solo project, it ain't.

This is a pretty weak argument.

David Lee Roth's Eat 'Em and Smile has Steve Vai, Sheenan and Bissonette all over the tracks, but it still was a solo album. They co-wrote most of the songs.

Roger Waters had a solo record with Eric Clapton on guitar (and it was not even stated in the title), and another one with Jeff Beck. Still it was a solo album.

There are countless examples of solo efforts where the solo artist is not the exclusive author or performer.

In other words, a solo effort is defined mainly by "who runs the show" and not necessarily by the performers or sometimes the riff or even authors either.

Current GNR is Axl's show, it's kind of a solo thing, the only difference is that the GNR name is being used to attract more crowds to live gigs, and sell more records.

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Release two or three great albums over the next ten years (and last of GNR) and it'd be a band, touring and putting on great shows is one thing, getting collaborated material out and stamping their own mark on this era of GNR is another, yeah Stinson, Dizzy, Pitman and Rose can say they have with CD but the others kinda just had one or two contributions, not a band effort of this unit which now seems steady.

Play six 'staple' songs and folks will come regardless, less of the solo sections, then you've got a lot of room for chinese and new material, exposure, shit sells these days, so hit casuals with some real rocking and passionate music. Tons of potential to evolve Guns from the helter skelter CD era, it's down to what Axl's aspirations are, he's still at the helm but that's always been the case. He's come through hell to get new GNR to this point, the question that'll be answered is - what was it all for? Can't wait to find out!

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If other band members turned up late, they should and would be fired.

Life is not fair. It's Axl's band, he's the least replaceable element. They go on stage when he's ready. Period.

If he did that he would be the biggest asshole ever. He's always late and several people are waiting for him and if someone else turns up late for one or two gigs he fires them? It's not about life not being fair, it's all about being a total moron. I had to wait for him 2 hours here in Rio - I mean, Bach set finished at 11 PM and he came on stage at 1 AM. That was the worst wait I've ever experienced and when you have people in pain for standing there for so long and getting sick things are getting out of control. When the show starts there's the adrenaline factor and all. But I was almost the only one jumping at the end of PC almost 4 am. And we know how South American fans love to jump and enjoy the show. But we all were really, really tired. That's why Ron is so pissed at Axl when he's 1.5, 2 hours late - when fans are trying to hurt you throwing shit at you something is really wrong.

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If he did that he would be the biggest asshole ever.

but he is the biggest asshole ever. essentially every person that he's ever worked with or been in a relationship with has left him. the only people who stick around are the folks on payroll, and everyone's boss is an asshole.

Edited by nambis
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What if let's say Ashba or BBF or Frank, every other night came to the venue a couple or three hours late, and had some excuse in the spirit of Axl's excuses (that he needs to prepare mentally to give his best etc). Do you think Axl would tolerate that and be understanding since he has the same thing happen to him too? Or would he be instantly fired?

In this case, they loose their paychecks...

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GNR is Axl's baby. If the people he hires to play in his band are not able to turn up reliably, he should find people who will.

So why does Axl call them his band mates? He never said they were hired hands or anything like that. He said that he loves his band so he must be respectiful to them. I believe he is nowadays - apart from the late starts and even that he seems to be going on stage earlier now.

And if they don't like playing in a band with a singer who may not turn up reliably, they have every right to play in a different band if/when their contractual obligations (if any) are fulfilled.

These are not enough reasons for them to leave Guns I suppose. They can live with that but Axl is going on earlier how I said. Maybe he's listening to them now? I don't know. They wanted to join Guns so they could be a part of something else. Ron, for instance, always wanted to be part of a real band, not a solo band. This is what Axl's GNR nowadays seems to be about - a band, a kickass band. In reality this ain't what we get but Axl even said how he could share the GNR brand with them at some point.

And if fans don't want to attend shows featuring a singer who may not be reliable, they have every right to stay home.

No, I'm gonna attend the show. I'm a fan of the band, I can live with the wait. More than 45 min - 1 hour is really disrespectiful though. I noticed how they took about fourty to fifity (Maybe to one hour) to get the stage completely ready.

Everybody is in control of their own destiny. Everyone needs to stop whining and take control of their own life.

Yes, exactly. I'm controling my life, living my life and coming to a GNR forum to give my opinion. You seem to be the guy trying to control our lives and how we should behave. I'm a fan just like you. I find the wait ridiculous. The band don't like that, countless fans waiting don't like that. Nobody is wrong, the audience should be respected, they paid for that. Up to one hour, I'm cool with that. As I said, there's the huge stage, Axl and the band getting ready to play, vocal exercises, etc.

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Axl runs the show.

All the more reason it's not a "band". It should be Axl solo.

Oh nice try. Well maybe you need to freshen up on what the word "band" means. I mean, seriously. Axl didn't dictate every single note, beat, and melody for Chinese Democracy. No offense, but it's really annoying how people are portraying Axl like Chuck Berry or something. He's the leader of the band. Y'know... a lot of bands have leaders. Sometimes they're called "band leaders." But seriously. Chinese Democracy is not a solo project. Do you know whyyyy? Because Buckethead and Finck have their stamp all over that album.

Keep telling yourself and others it's not a band. Keep calling it "Axl's solo project" if that's what makes you happy. It doesn't change the fact that it is, and will continue to be, Guns n Roses. It's a band, and Axl's at the helm. But a solo project, it ain't.

In Bruce Dickinson's 6-album, seventy song discography, 66 of his songs were co-written by somebody else. Only 4 songs were written solely by him, and one of them is kind of a B-side (though an excellent one!).

I don't really have an opinion on the use of the name, but using that logic to say it's not an Axl solo project is flawed.

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