Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place?

[Randy Lahey]

Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place? We should probably all tone that down before we convince Axl to release another album before he's ready. Axl should really be focusing on promoting the 25th Anniversary of Appetite For Destruction right now and not paying any attention to our delusional demands for new music.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Randy Lahey

[SoulMonster]

Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place? We should probably all tone that down before we convince Axl to release another album before he's ready. Axl should really be focusing on promoting the 25th Anniversary of Appetite For Destruction and not paying any attention to our delusional demands for new music.

Heh, no.

[stumbleine]

yes.you're on to something here.good point.

I think we need to speak up louder and more often.

Edited June 4, 2012 by stumbleine

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

You think we forced the release of CD?

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc), but I don't think we're responsible for that. It was the record company looking for their money. I bet a release now or never kind of thing was pushed under his nose. In fairness to them, their patience was well and truly tested. Look at it from their point of view (and the view of the fans) no album needs that amount of time to be completed.

Axl's side of the story is completely different imo. He lacked confidence. The Moby quotes only back that up. He was forced to do a 180 after the record company rejected his work. They didn't like OMG and that style. He had to re-think the direction of his record. It wasn't just any record. It was his first 'solo' record. His first release without the other guys. He had a point to prove. A big point to prove.

I just hope Axl knows how talented he is and that this hasn't held him back too much. Even though he seems to be in a great mood lately I kind of get the feeling he's just going through the motions. The drive to do something new appears to be gone. I hope I'm wrong though. Compare even 2006 to now for example. It was a completely different attitude.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Sleeping Like An Angel

[GN'R Fan]

Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place? We should probably all tone that down before we convince Axl to release another album before he's ready. Axl should really be focusing on promoting the 25th Anniversary of Appetite For Destruction right now and not paying any attention to our delusional demands for new music.

I'm not quite sure why fans desire for new music should be considered delusional, nor can I see Axl ever promoting an AFD anniversary.

As long as people aren't walking up to band members shouting "where the fuck's the new record?" and are simply stating a perfectly reasonable wish that they would prefer new music sooner rather than later, then I see no problem, nor it affecting Axl's ability to put out the next record.

[Randy Lahey]

MSL's overwhelming sense of entitlement is largely responsible for him deciding that was it okay to illegally acquire and distribute Axl's material to New GNR's self entitled fans.

[Ali]

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc)

I don't think that's obvious at all actually. He may have been unhappy with the label's role in the making and release of the album, but that is not indicative of his pride or lack thereof towards the music itself.

Ali

[Patience 4 Axl]

Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place? We should probably all tone that down before we convince Axl to release another album before he's ready. Axl should really be focusing on promoting the 25th Anniversary of Appetite For Destruction right now and not paying any attention to our delusional demands for new music.

Haha, I like the reverse psychology angle, maybe it'll work.

[rabia]

Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place?

The Chinese Whispers compilation quoted people involved in the making of the album saying that the overwhelming sense of pressure from people's expectations actually weighed Axl down and impeded him from advancing.

Not the most successful strategy, if upping the entitlement is what you have in mind.

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc)

I don't think that's obvious at all actually. He may have been unhappy with the label's role in the making and release of the album, but that is not indicative of his pride or lack thereof towards the music itself.

Ali

Seriously?

I don't see how he could be 100% happy with it. He had to change the direction of the record. His vision had to be scraped and he was forced to start over again. He didn't bother promoting it - not really the actions of someone who is proud of their work? Plus Axl is a perfectionist. Those vocals are not 100% strong and to the best of his ability across the album. Axl isn't deaf. He'll be aware of that.

None of us know what Axl is thinking but i think it's fair to say there is a strong case for feeling that Axl didn't release the record he dreamed of.

Hope I'm wrong. I want Axl to be happy.

[SONOFABITCH]

Remember on the Rockumentary when Duff said says if UYI doesn't sell well they will just say screw you to the record company? That is the type of attitude that is missing in today's GNR. If Axl let a record company dictate to him how he sounds than shame on Axl Rose.

[Silent Jay]

It's time to forget a bit AFD and think about the future

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Do you think it was our false sense of entitlement that is partly responsible for CD's release in the first place? We should probably all tone that down before we convince Axl to release another album before he's ready. Axl should really be focusing on promoting the 25th Anniversary of Appetite For Destruction right now and not paying any attention to our delusional demands for new music.

totally agree. i would hate for the greed and selfishness of a few small-minded fans to once again force axl into releasing an album before he's written a chorus. especially when the whole world is so ready to focus on afd, what with the anniversary and hall of fame.

[rabia]

Remember on the Rockumentary when Duff said says if UYI doesn't sell well they will just say screw you to the record company? That is the type of attitude that is missing in today's GNR. If Axl let a record company dictate to him how he sounds than shame on Axl Rose.

If it was a simple case of Axl letting the record company dictate to him, the album would have come out muchhhhhh earlier.

[axlsalinger]

Remember on the Rockumentary when Duff said says if UYI doesn't sell well they will just say screw you to the record company? That is the type of attitude that is missing in today's GNR. If Axl let a record company dictate to him how he sounds than shame on Axl Rose.

Hard to know for sure what happened, though. For all we know, Axl did exactly what you're suggesting and that's the reason why the album didn't come out for 6 years after it was supposed to in 2002.

There are lots of rumours out there about the record companies, one story I heard is that the label rejected the first version of Nirvana's In Utero, and they were forced to go back into the studio to make it more listenable because it was a very rough mix (supposedly). Also heard Aerosmith had a record rejected and they had to go back and re-record it.

If they "own" the recordings and refuse to release it, there's only so much the artist can do.

[Ali]

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc)

I don't think that's obvious at all actually. He may have been unhappy with the label's role in the making and release of the album, but that is not indicative of his pride or lack thereof towards the music itself.

Ali

Seriously?

I don't see how he could be 100% happy with it. He had to change the direction of the record. His vision had to be scraped and he was forced to start over again. He didn't bother promoting it - not really the actions of someone who is proud of their work? Plus Axl is a perfectionist. Those vocals are not 100% strong and to the best of his ability across the album. Axl isn't deaf. He'll be aware of that.

None of us know what Axl is thinking but i think it's fair to say there is a strong case for feeling that Axl didn't release the record he dreamed of.

Hope I'm wrong. I want Axl to be happy.

Where are you getting that he "had" to scrap his vision? How do you know that the lack of promotion had to with dissatisfaction with the music itself and not with the album product? I mean the one that was released with incomplete/incorrect album liner notes.

As far as his vocals, do you think he didn't listen to his vocals prior to the album's release? Those vocals are what he wanted them to be. Here is an interview with an engineer who recorded Axl's vocals in 2006.

http://www.sleazeroxx.com/news08/1126gun.shtml

Read it and you may be surprised as to what Axl thought were the best or right vocals for the songs.

You're right, we don't know what he's thinking, but we do know what he's said, like what he told Billboard in 2009: "All that aside, it's the right record and I couldn't ask for more in that regard. "

Ali

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Remember on the Rockumentary when Duff said says if UYI doesn't sell well they will just say screw you to the record company? That is the type of attitude that is missing in today's GNR. If Axl let a record company dictate to him how he sounds than shame on Axl Rose.

If it was a simple case of Axl letting the record company dictate to him, the album would have come out muchhhhhh earlier.

and it would have had songs with some small degree of commercial potential. and the old band, obviously. but axl stuck to his guns and refused to prostitute himself for fortune and shame. in so doing, he proudly proved it was possible to win every battle and still lose the war.

[rabia]

Remember on the Rockumentary when Duff said says if UYI doesn't sell well they will just say screw you to the record company? That is the type of attitude that is missing in today's GNR. If Axl let a record company dictate to him how he sounds than shame on Axl Rose.

If it was a simple case of Axl letting the record company dictate to him, the album would have come out muchhhhhh earlier.

and it would have had songs with some small degree of commercial potential. and the old band, obviously. but axl stuck to his guns and refused to prostitute himself for fortune and shame. in so doing, he proudly proved it was possible to win every battle and still lose the war.

Maybe he didnt want to win the war at such high costs. You can be on top of the world and not be happy like Kurt Cobain for instance. And you could be happy when others dont think your efforts are worth it or that you're a success.

Axl has always seemed to be the guy whose inner measure of things is what really matters at the end of the day.

[Apollo]

Remember on the Rockumentary when Duff said says if UYI doesn't sell well they will just say screw you to the record company? That is the type of attitude that is missing in today's GNR. If Axl let a record company dictate to him how he sounds than shame on Axl Rose.

Hard to know for sure what happened, though. For all we know, Axl did exactly what you're suggesting and that's the reason why the album didn't come out for 6 years after it was supposed to in 2002.

There are lots of rumours out there about the record companies, one story I heard is that the label rejected the first version of Nirvana's In Utero, and they were forced to go back into the studio to make it more listenable because it was a very rough mix (supposedly). Also heard Aerosmith had a record rejected and they had to go back and re-record it.

If they "own" the recordings and refuse to release it, there's only so much the artist can do.

That's all stuff that the normal fan will never know!

Hasn't it been said that Axl rejected numerous producers over the decade it took to record CD?

I think the mistake the worshippers make is that they blame EVERYTHING on the evil record company and don't lay any of the blame on Axl's shoulders.

The record company invested a reported 14 million dollars and waited a decade for Axl to finally turn in a finished product. I can't imagine that is the sop for all major acts.

So any difficulty Axl is having right now with record companies or labels is sparked by his attitude/actions over really his entire career.

You want to talk about who has the greatest sense of entitlement of all - that's our favorite singer Axl.

[volcano62]

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc)

I don't think that's obvious at all actually. He may have been unhappy with the label's role in the making and release of the album, but that is not indicative of his pride or lack thereof towards the music itself.

Ali

Seriously?

I don't see how he could be 100% happy with it. He had to change the direction of the record. His vision had to be scraped and he was forced to start over again. He didn't bother promoting it - not really the actions of someone who is proud of their work? Plus Axl is a perfectionist. Those vocals are not 100% strong and to the best of his ability across the album. Axl isn't deaf. He'll be aware of that.

None of us know what Axl is thinking but i think it's fair to say there is a strong case for feeling that Axl didn't release the record he dreamed of.

Hope I'm wrong. I want Axl to be happy.

Where are you getting that he "had" to scrap his vision? How do you know that the lack of promotion had to with dissatisfaction with the music itself and not with the album product? I mean the one that was released with incomplete/incorrect album liner notes.

As far as his vocals, do you think he didn't listen to his vocals prior to the album's release? Those vocals are what he wanted them to be. Here is an interview with an engineer who recorded Axl's vocals in 2006.

http://www.sleazerox...8/1126gun.shtml

Read it and you may be surprised as to what Axl thought were the best or right vocals for the songs.

You're right, we don't know what he's thinking, but we do know what he's said, like what he told Billboard in 2009: "All that aside, it's the right record and I couldn't ask for more in that regard. "

Ali

Ali I usualy agree with you 100% of the time but I think you are off here.....I believe there was more to Chinese Democracy and Axl was not satisfied with the final product. He says a lot of things. There is alternate artwork, alternate lyrics and information. Why does the album only have 14 songs when the band has recorded at least 80 unfinished songs? There is a lot that we as fans don't know. There was no support from the lable whatsoever.

[SONOFABITCH]

According to Tommy Stinson, Jimmy Iovine (the mentor on American Idol) fucked up Chinese Democracy. You know I don't think Axl was ready or prepared to steer the ship and be the boss.

http://www.avclub.com/milwaukee/articles/tommy-stinson,56268/

AVC: Chinese Democracy took all of 10 years to make. What was the recording process like? I mean, you couldn’t have been working at it every day for 10 years.

Tommy Stinson: At first we were in there a lot. We were working on the writing aspect of it, but it just kept going on. We had [interscope Chairman] Jimmy Iovine intervening in a not-so-productive way, and we had other guys coming and going with nutty ideas. My summation of the whole thing is that Interscope, when they took over Geffen, really led Axl to believe that Jimmy Iovine would be involved, and would help get this record done and make it happen. But basically what he did was let it completely fall apart. Then he had this great idea to bring in [producer] Roy Thomas Baker to make it sound better. All he did was re-record everything three or four different times, trying to make it sound like something it didn’t need to sound like, and spend $10 million in the process. My two cents on the whole thing is that I really think Jimmy Iovine fucked the whole thing up.

It was a bummer. Most of the songs that are on the record now were done 10 fucking years ago. But all the talking heads in the mix were saying, “Make ’em sound better! Make ’em sound better!” So we kept redoing this and that. And it ended up coming back down to the same fucking songs that they were 10 years ago, except that now they were a super-dense mishmash of a bunch of instrumentation. That whole era pretty much sums up what happened to the record industry. Those kinds of people, making those kinds of decisions and not really helping the artist.

[saber_]

It would seem I touched a nerve.

[Ali]

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc)

I don't think that's obvious at all actually. He may have been unhappy with the label's role in the making and release of the album, but that is not indicative of his pride or lack thereof towards the music itself.

Ali

Seriously?

I don't see how he could be 100% happy with it. He had to change the direction of the record. His vision had to be scraped and he was forced to start over again. He didn't bother promoting it - not really the actions of someone who is proud of their work? Plus Axl is a perfectionist. Those vocals are not 100% strong and to the best of his ability across the album. Axl isn't deaf. He'll be aware of that.

None of us know what Axl is thinking but i think it's fair to say there is a strong case for feeling that Axl didn't release the record he dreamed of.

Hope I'm wrong. I want Axl to be happy.

Where are you getting that he "had" to scrap his vision? How do you know that the lack of promotion had to with dissatisfaction with the music itself and not with the album product? I mean the one that was released with incomplete/incorrect album liner notes.

As far as his vocals, do you think he didn't listen to his vocals prior to the album's release? Those vocals are what he wanted them to be. Here is an interview with an engineer who recorded Axl's vocals in 2006.

http://www.sleazerox...8/1126gun.shtml

Read it and you may be surprised as to what Axl thought were the best or right vocals for the songs.

You're right, we don't know what he's thinking, but we do know what he's said, like what he told Billboard in 2009: "All that aside, it's the right record and I couldn't ask for more in that regard. "

Ali

Ali I usualy agree with you 100% of the time but I think you are off here.....I believe there was more to Chinese Democracy and Axl was not satisfied with the final product. He says a lot of things. There is alternate artwork, alternate lyrics and information. Why does the album only have 14 songs when the band has recorded at least 80 unfinished songs? There is a lot that we as fans don't know. There was no support from the lable whatsoever.

No offense, volcano, but did you actually read what I wrote? It seems you are agreeing with me. I agree he may not have been happy with the final album product, but I don't see anything to say he wasn't happy with the music on the album. I mentioned the incorrect liner notes.

As far as why the album only has 14 songs, I have no idea other than there is a limitation on total album length in terms of play time generally at around 80 minutes.

Ali

[wasted]

The leaks acted like singles but the record never came out until the Best Buy deal. The label must have been holding on for a reunion.

[Apollo]

It's obvious Axl released a record he wasn't happy with (no promotion, weak vocals etc)

I don't think that's obvious at all actually. He may have been unhappy with the label's role in the making and release of the album, but that is not indicative of his pride or lack thereof towards the music itself.

Ali

Seriously?

I don't see how he could be 100% happy with it. He had to change the direction of the record. His vision had to be scraped and he was forced to start over again. He didn't bother promoting it - not really the actions of someone who is proud of their work? Plus Axl is a perfectionist. Those vocals are not 100% strong and to the best of his ability across the album. Axl isn't deaf. He'll be aware of that.

None of us know what Axl is thinking but i think it's fair to say there is a strong case for feeling that Axl didn't release the record he dreamed of.

Hope I'm wrong. I want Axl to be happy.

Where are you getting that he "had" to scrap his vision? How do you know that the lack of promotion had to with dissatisfaction with the music itself and not with the album product? I mean the one that was released with incomplete/incorrect album liner notes.

As far as his vocals, do you think he didn't listen to his vocals prior to the album's release? Those vocals are what he wanted them to be. Here is an interview with an engineer who recorded Axl's vocals in 2006.

http://www.sleazerox...8/1126gun.shtml

Read it and you may be surprised as to what Axl thought were the best or right vocals for the songs.

You're right, we don't know what he's thinking, but we do know what he's said, like what he told Billboard in 2009: "All that aside, it's the right record and I couldn't ask for more in that regard. "

Ali

Ali I usualy agree with you 100% of the time but I think you are off here.....I believe there was more to Chinese Democracy and Axl was not satisfied with the final product. He says a lot of things. There is alternate artwork, alternate lyrics and information. Why does the album only have 14 songs when the band has recorded at least 80 unfinished songs? There is a lot that we as fans don't know. There was no support from the lable whatsoever.

No offense, volcano, but did you actually read what I wrote? It seems you are agreeing with me. I agree he may not have been happy with the final album product, but I don't see anything to say he wasn't happy with the music on the album. I mentioned the incorrect liner notes.

As far as why the album only has 14 songs, I have no idea other than there is a limitation on total album length in terms of play time generally at around 80 minutes.

Ali

Ali, so why do you think it took so long for Axl to finish CD. And why do you think he is reluctant release the other CD era, songs. And do you think the current band will ever create, record and release an album.

If there is another album released, will it be old songs or new songs?