GN'R, Keyboards & a big stage show

[Vincent Vega]

One thing I've never understood is the mindset that having horns or back up singers on tour with GN'R somehow degrades it or "waters it down", or makes it cheesy or Vegas-y or saps the energy out of it. For example some really hate that Dizzy was added to the band and hate him to this day and feel he "ruined" the UYI albums and I've never understood why. I've never understood why piano or keyboards is seen as so horrible in GN'R. And others hate/hated GN'R's 1992 live act because of the back up singers and horn section...I always saw horns, piano, and back up singers as being a facet of Rock N' Roll...I mean for another example in rock, the Stones, who were the 60s and 70s equivalent of GN'R, during their sleaziest, most "dangerous" live period, in the early 70s, had horns, back up singers, two keyboardists plus their piano player, and this was the period in which their shows were legendary and full of energy. And going back to the 60s, most of their songs had other instruments besides a guitar like Cellos, a mellotoron, flutes, etc, and they still remained a rock band.

Going back to Rock's roots, in the '50s when it really began, practically every rock n roll track had horns and piano augmenting the sound...Having horn or a saxophone on a track adds a layer of sleaze and grit IMO--Think for example Brown Sugar and it's saxophone solo.

And the piano on the UYIs in my opinion helps give augment the classic bluesy or Honky Tonk feel to many of the songs. I alway saw Dizzy as an asset who added to the GN'R sound rather than took away from it, and I always thought the '92 "Big Band" lineup on the UYI was awesome,, like this was indeed a band who was on the Rock N' Roll Throne.

Like one person has always compared GN'R in 1992 to the Stones in 1989...That it had no edge or energy but I've never understood that. Maybe I just like things to be loud and "gaudy" I suppose but I always thought the idea of a big stage presentation is VERY Rock N' Roll--It's decadence and excess put on stage. It doesn't have to be minimalist to be "Rock N' Roll"--that's a Grunge way of thinking. In adding the horns, Teddy Zigzag, Tracey and Roberta, GN'R was saying, "We can do this, so we're gonna do it." It's a statement and with Guns it worked IMO...Tracey, Roberta, and Teddy Zizag made for great touring members and IMO added to the experience rather than took away from it. You can't have a club mentality forever, because then it devolves into being fake. You can't act like "Urchins livin' under the street" when you're multimillionaires...The image and music should reflect the reality in GN'R and with the evolution in sound with the UYIs, it did; The evolution was natural and true--Circumstances had changed, so had the band. Bands that stagnate, like AC/DC, and just try to remake the same record over and over, become boring. Or bands that try to act like they're just hardcore rockers and act "cool" just become lame. The addition of Dizzy, and in general the addition of other instruments and elements to the GN'R sound, was IMO a good move, an evolution.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you do.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[bacardimayne]

lol

[classicrawker]

Bands that stagnate, like AC/DC, and just try to remake the same record over and over, become boring.

I never get tired of AC/DC...hope they never stop making kick ass riff driven RnR............

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

The same thing that made GN'R great is probably the reason behind why some people complain about this stuff.

Some wanted/expected GN'R to be a rock band. THe diversity was a bit of a shock or something?

GN'R appealed to a wider audience because of this stuff.

[classicrawker]

The same thing that made GN'R great is probably the reason behind why some people complain about this stuff.

Some wanted/expected GN'R to be a rock band. THe diversity was a bit of a shock or something?

GN'R appealed to a wider audience because of this stuff.

That would be true if most fans did not go to NuGuns shows for the old classic songs but you can't really believe most fans want to hear ChiDem?

[Rustycage]

GNR started out less contemporary. They weren't of the excess style of the hair metal scene. They were more blues based street scum.

5 years later they were the new excess. So much going on that the guitars lost their crunch. To me, it seemed like at that point they cared more about the image than just being themselves and direct. It just became a circus.

After all, what drew people into GNR was the alternative to excess, empty rock. They had the "every day cast away" persona and style. Once they started to shed that image, it was a shift that not everyone was going to follow. It was tolerable because the energy and wild sides were still there but it became the "meet the new bosses, the same as the old" story. "Party, party, party. Look at our 20 piece set-up" The public gets tired of that quick. Look at Disco and hair metal. It was cast aside for the stripped down basic grunge/punk style. The public just didn't want it and neither did some of the band. For whatever the motive was, it was the wrong choice. Music always makes that transition. It goes from basic to excess and back again. They just made the wrong choice for the music and for the public. The public took a left and GNR took a right.

There's nothing wrong with piano in rock, especially the type of heavy blues based rock that was GNR. All of the rest didn't belong, though.

The current music scene is once again commercial crap about flaunting image, rich lifestyle and pretty faces. It won't last much longer in my opinion. Axl could do himself a huge favor if he were to "progress" in the direction of shedding that style again. The public wants it and there's no one that can shove the mic up the asses of the likes of Justin Bieber better than Axl. Regardless of who is in the band, he could make himself more relevant by going back to his roots and appeal to the normal people with less flaunt and more middle finger.

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

The same thing that made GN'R great is probably the reason behind why some people complain about this stuff.

Some wanted/expected GN'R to be a rock band. THe diversity was a bit of a shock or something?

GN'R appealed to a wider audience because of this stuff.

That would be true if most fans did not go to NuGuns shows for the old classic songs but you can't really believe most fans want to hear ChiDem?

I wasn't even thinking about CD. I was thinking of the old Illusion tours. Some loved the Illusion sound/stage but others wanted the AFD rock theme. It's kind of funny because the conflict wasn't just amongst the fans it was between the band members too!

[classicrawker]

The same thing that made GN'R great is probably the reason behind why some people complain about this stuff.

Some wanted/expected GN'R to be a rock band. THe diversity was a bit of a shock or something?

GN'R appealed to a wider audience because of this stuff.

That would be true if most fans did not go to NuGuns shows for the old classic songs but you can't really believe most fans want to hear ChiDem?

I wasn't even thinking about CD. I was thinking of the old Illusion tours. Some loved the Illusion sound/stage but others wanted the AFD rock theme. It's kind of funny because the conflict wasn't just amongst the fans it was between the band members too!

Fair enough SLAA I can see your point then...personally I was not a fan of the big bloated stage shows but did love hearing the UYI songs live especially on the 93 Skin N Bones tour when they were a lean mean RnR machine again..........so it made sense when Slash said in interviews the UYI album rough cuts kicked ass before all the other stuff was layered on........

[Kill Devil Hill]

I liked the big band era, honestly. It was a tremendous show, though I agree it was bloated. But I don't know. Since the material itself was still close to rock n' roll, I can't equate them to the excess of those other bands, y'know? It still had that street edge, it still had that blues style, so at heart, it was still GN'R -- just in a change of wardrobe in a sense.

And I agree with the sentiment that a band should not make the same album over and over again. That's what being an artist is -- experimenting past your comfort zone, y'know? Plus, I would be terribly wasting my money if I purchased twelve albums that all sounded like AFD when I could just listen to AFD and it'd be the same thing.

I understand why people didn't like the era, but I don't know. I really adored it.

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

The same thing that made GN'R great is probably the reason behind why some people complain about this stuff.

Some wanted/expected GN'R to be a rock band. THe diversity was a bit of a shock or something?

GN'R appealed to a wider audience because of this stuff.

That would be true if most fans did not go to NuGuns shows for the old classic songs but you can't really believe most fans want to hear ChiDem?

I wasn't even thinking about CD. I was thinking of the old Illusion tours. Some loved the Illusion sound/stage but others wanted the AFD rock theme. It's kind of funny because the conflict wasn't just amongst the fans it was between the band members too!

Fair enough SLAA I can see your point then...personally I was not a fan of the big bloated stage shows but did love hearing the UYI songs live especially on the 93 Skin N Bones tour when they were a lean mean RnR machine again..........so it made sense when Slash said in interviews the UYI album rough cuts kicked ass before all the other stuff was layered on........

Thing is I liked both so it's hard for me to pick. I can understand Slash's frustration with the whole thing. Thing is I don't really get why people don't understand why the band broke up. Take away all the drama - they didn't agree on the main thing: the music. It had become impossible for them to stay together and make more music. A shame for us of course.

I know it's nice to hear the songs striped back but the big epic stage production suited it in my eyes. Playing the same thing over and over would've brought them more criticism that acclaim so I'm glad they branched out with different styles and genres. They did it so well too.

In terms of experimenting, Illusions was enough. Axl went overboard on CD. For me, the Illusions were the perfect mix of Axl's vision coupled with their rock roots.

[classicrawker]

The same thing that made GN'R great is probably the reason behind why some people complain about this stuff.

Some wanted/expected GN'R to be a rock band. THe diversity was a bit of a shock or something?

GN'R appealed to a wider audience because of this stuff.

That would be true if most fans did not go to NuGuns shows for the old classic songs but you can't really believe most fans want to hear ChiDem?

I wasn't even thinking about CD. I was thinking of the old Illusion tours. Some loved the Illusion sound/stage but others wanted the AFD rock theme. It's kind of funny because the conflict wasn't just amongst the fans it was between the band members too!

Fair enough SLAA I can see your point then...personally I was not a fan of the big bloated stage shows but did love hearing the UYI songs live especially on the 93 Skin N Bones tour when they were a lean mean RnR machine again..........so it made sense when Slash said in interviews the UYI album rough cuts kicked ass before all the other stuff was layered on........

Thing is I liked both so it's hard for me to pick. I can understand Slash's frustration with the whole thing. Thing is I don't really get why people don't understand why the band broke up. Take away all the drama - they didn't agree on the main thing: the music. It had become impossible for them to stay together and make more music. A shame for us of course.

I know it's nice to hear the songs striped back but the big epic stage production suited it in my eyes. Playing the same thing over and over would've brought them more criticism that acclaim so I'm glad they branched out with different styles and genres. They did it so well too.

In terms of experimenting, Illusions was enough. Axl went overboard on CD. For me, the Illusions were the perfect mix of Axl's vision coupled with their rock roots.

Well to each his own SLAA having seen the AFD Guns in a small club I suppose I was spoiled so the big band UYI tour was a bit of letdown for me....I don't know if I agree they would have opened themselves up to crticism as AC/DC has ben making the same raw riff driven RnR albums for close to 40 years and they still sell millions of albums and sell out arenas and Stadiums...If the music is good the fans will buy it and they will go to the shows

Edited June 11, 2012 by classicrawker

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

Well tto each his own SLAA having seen the AFD Guns in a small club I suppose I was spoiled so the big band UYI tour was a bit of letdown for me....I don't know I agree they would have opened themselves up to crticism as AC/DC has ben making the same raw RnR album for close to 40 years and they still sell millions of albums and sell out arenas and Stadiums...If the music is good the fans will buy it and they will go to the shows

For sure. There are no right or wrong answers here. It's all down to opinion and personal music taste on this one.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm a BIG fan of both styles. I would kill to have seen them at one of their club shows but just as equally I would've loved to have seen them on one of the Illusion tours.

[Dead Flower]

Congrats to anyone who actually read the OP.

[WhazUp]

I have always thought the horn players and backup singers were a bit too much, GNR really did not need it. They already had a full, energetic sound - there really was no reason to make everything so bloated with more singers singing in the chorus, horn players playing harmonies, etc.

I personally LOVE the horn solos on Move To The City from the Tokyo DVD though, I suppose in my case that is the exception

Edited June 11, 2012 by WhazUp

[Vincent Vega]

[Vincent Vega]

Still raw as hell to me

[SONOFABITCH]

I hated (and still do) he addition of Dizzy Reed, the horns, the back ground singers, etc. For GNR, and Axl, the rawer the better. The more stripped down, the better. Look at the Ritz KOHD. It is so much better with just 5 guys in the band playing. It is better than the recording on UYI2, and I prefer it to any other version, especially "Give me some reggae." MTV used to show the Ritz KOHD as a music video and it was awesome. Move to the City totally lost it's edge when there were horns and the over the top band solo. If I want horns, I got 3 Sinatra box sets I can listen to. Just one man's opinion.

Thank you for reading,

SOB

[Vincent Vega]

Stones tour 1975...Raw still yet has horns, back up singers, two keyboardists...Horns aren't exclusive to Sinatra or Swing.

[SONOFABITCH]

Don't like them in GNR. It is personal taste. Unfortunately, seeing Tracii and Roberta dance around like wild hyenas is offensive to me.

[Kill Devil Hill]

I don't like Tracy and Roberta either.

[Madridista]

Depends on the song. I usually don't have a problem with keyboards or pianos. So Fine and November Rain are beautiful songs and there's a lot of piano in those songs. But the horns on Move to the city are just fucking lame. I mean, if it's a ballad, chances are the keyboard adds something, it makes the song sound even better. but horns and trumpets have no place in a rock band like GnR.

And to the OP... ACDC has not stagnated. They make the type of music their fans love. It's raw hard rock, pure and simple.

and... ACDC boring?????????? :rofl-lol:

...and they've never kept their fans waiting 15 years for a lame overproduced álbum

yeah... this is a boring song

and so is this one down here

Edited June 11, 2012 by Madridista

[GNR123GNR456]

I liked the back-up singers, horn sections, key-boards and other stuff they added on for the Illusions tour, including Teddy Zig Zag. If I'm ever in a band (that's a massive, massive "if") I would want to be as over the top and crazy as possible. I would have pyro and big lights. Keyboards, piano, back-up singers. You name it, I would want to have it on stage. I just would want to make the show a spectacle.

I disagree with anyone who say's that the addition of keyboards into GN'R was a negative. I think the addition in keyboards in GN'R made GN'R from a old gritty undergrounds 80's bands to more of a classic rock band, like the Rolling Stones. The addition of piano to the song's like Civil War and 14 years just make them sound more like old rock n' roll. If GN'R didn't change their style and Axl didn't want to "bury" Appetite, they would've turned into ACDC. I think that's why I like Chinese Democracy over all the other solo albums of old GN'R members, because of the different styles of sounds.

Edited June 11, 2012 by GNR123GNR456

[The Archer]

And to the OP... ACDC has not stagnated. They make the type of music their fans love. It's raw hard rock, pure and simple.

Yup, we love 'em. Don't want them to change. Ever. Bon Lives!

[Johnny Drama]

I love piano in GN'R. It just needs to be performed by Axl.

[bran]

it never bothered me i liked how gnr branched out into a different sound, thats why i love the UYI albums and CD so much there is something in there for everyone to the rockers to the ballads and everything in between