Did Paul Tobias sabotage Gn'R.

[arnold layne]

It's no secret Slash left the band because Axl brought in Paul Tobias to play over his parts. Fast forward twenty years and look where we are now.

If Axl Rose didn't get Paul Tobias to rerecord those parts, Gn'R would have had a completely different history, and one would argue it would have been more successful and enjoyable than it is now. So why do people celebrate Paul Tobias? I think they're ignorant. I can't see anything positive this man has done for the band. If anything he raped Gn'R of its future potential.

[bacardimayne]

Slash sabotaged the band by whining when Axl brought Paul in to replace Gilby. Contrary to popular belief, Paul does not "play over" Slash's part in Sympathy for the Devil. His part is much lower in the mix than Slash's part.

[arnold layne]

So Axl sabotaged Gn'R by making choices all of his other bandmates disagreed with? Looks like it really paid off.

[bacardimayne]

So Axl sabotaged Gn'R by making choices all of his other bandmates disagreed with? Looks like it really paid off.

Admittedly I don't know what the other members' opinions were of Paul. That's something you'd have to ask Miser. All I know is that it's known that Slash was very picky about who he wanted to work with. He also snubbed Zakk Wylde.

As for the positive things Paul has done for the band, he wrote a lot of the material for CD, including TWAT, one of the most universally liked CD songs.

[arnold layne]

So Axl sabotaged Gn'R by making choices all of his other bandmates disagreed with? Looks like it really paid off.

Admittedly I don't know what the other members' opinions were of Paul. That's something you'd have to ask Miser. All I know is that it's known that Slash was very picky about who he wanted to work with. He also snubbed Zakk Wylde.

As for the positive things Paul has done for the band, he wrote a lot of the material for CD, including TWAT, one of the most universally liked CD songs.

You mean the the album that scored a 64/100 by critics? Please tell me more about how musically brilliant this guy is, especially when his work comes into comparison with this record, as reviewed by Allmusic and The Rolling Stone on the middle right of the page.

[luciusfunk]

And Metacritic is a good indicator of what I enjoy...how?

[Kill Devil Hill]

Do you only listen to critically acclaimed records? I feel bad for you.

By the way, 64 is considered "generally favorable."

[The Glow Inc.]

Both Slash and Axl sabotaged it :

-Axl by refusing to make the slightest effort to change his douchebag ways ( late, diva etc... ) and by wanting to change Izzy's contract ( probably his biggest mistake ) because he wasn't "moving as much as the others on stage" ( wtf )...

-Slash by being so uncompromising as regards the music style ( while being eager to record with every shitty band there ever was ) and by telling Axl to fuck off if he didn't want to do the whole Snakepit record. He also shouldn't have left thinking Axl wasn't actually going to use the name without him...

Those two ruined the band single handedly.

Edited June 15, 2012 by The Glow Inc.

[dalsh327]

It's no secret Slash left the band because Axl brought in Paul Tobias to play over his parts. Fast forward twenty years and look where we are now.

If Axl Rose didn't get Paul Tobias to rerecord those parts, Gn'R would have had a completely different history, and one would argue it would have been more successful and enjoyable than it is now. So why do people celebrate Paul Tobias? I think they're ignorant. I can't see anything positive this man has done for the band. If anything he raped Gn'R of its future potential.

Dizzy, Axl, and Paul kept the band going, and all he was doing on "Sympathy" is what Izzy would've done. It's not like Slash didn't know him, he was around from the beginning. Why he left, the real reason, might just be how Axl gets on the road, and he wanted to keep the friendship intact, or the road life just wasn't for him.

So how could someone rape GNR of its future when he was part of its beginnings?

[Cosmo]

Both Slash and Axl sabotaged it :

-Axl by refusing to make the slightest effort to change his douchebag ways ( late, diva etc... ) and by wanting to change Izzy's contract ( probably his biggest mistake ) because he wasn't "moving as much as the others on stage" ( wtf )...

-Slash by being so uncompromising as regards the music style ( while being eager to record with every shitty band there ever was ) and by telling Axl to fuck off if he didn't want to do the whole Snakepit record. He also shouldn't have left thinking Axl wasn't actually going to use the name without him...

Those two ruined the band single handedly.

+1.

Paul had NOTHING to do with. The band was long lost before he joined in.

[arnold layne]

Do you only listen to critically acclaimed records? I feel bad for you.

By the way, 64 is considered "generally favorable."

64 out of 100 is a D.

Would you consider a D generally favorable? When you look at your test grade with a D, would you say that was a good score, or would you be thankful it wasn't five points lower and an F?

[AxlRose14]

So Axl sabotaged Gn'R by making choices all of his other bandmates disagreed with? Looks like it really paid off.

Admittedly I don't know what the other members' opinions were of Paul. That's something you'd have to ask Miser. All I know is that it's known that Slash was very picky about who he wanted to work with. He also snubbed Zakk Wylde.

As for the positive things Paul has done for the band, he wrote a lot of the material for CD, including TWAT, one of the most universally liked CD songs.

You mean the the album that scored a 64/100 by critics? Please tell me more about how musically brilliant this guy is, especially when his work comes into comparison with this record, as reviewed by Allmusic and The Rolling Stone on the middle right of the page.

Then you please tell me who the fuck slash thinks he is snubbing zack wylde??

It's fucking rediculous

[Kill Devil Hill]

Do you only listen to critically acclaimed records? I feel bad for you.

By the way, 64 is considered "generally favorable."

64 out of 100 is a D.

Would you consider a D generally favorable? When you look at your test grade with a D, would you say that was a good score, or would you be thankful it wasn't five points lower and an F?

It's their scale, not mine. Look for yourself. http://www.metacritic.com/music/chinese-democracy

Metascore

64

out of 100

Generally favorable reviews

based on 28 Critics

[Chewbacca]

So Axl sabotaged Gn'R by making choices all of his other bandmates disagreed with? Looks like it really paid off.

Admittedly I don't know what the other members' opinions were of Paul. That's something you'd have to ask Miser. All I know is that it's known that Slash was very picky about who he wanted to work with. He also snubbed Zakk Wylde.

As for the positive things Paul has done for the band, he wrote a lot of the material for CD, including TWAT, one of the most universally liked CD songs.

He didn't snub him. He was afraid Zakk would get some of his spotlight, since both of 'em are lead players.

[mrandyk]

Even if Paul never came into the picture the band was already over. They were never going to write anything together, and they were never going to go back out on tour.

[Rustycage]

Never mind. Misunderstood.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Rustycage

[Crash Diet]

Both Slash and Axl sabotaged it :

-Axl by refusing to make the slightest effort to change his douchebag ways ( late, diva etc... ) and by wanting to change Izzy's contract ( probably his biggest mistake ) because he wasn't "moving as much as the others on stage" ( wtf )...

-Slash by being so uncompromising as regards the music style ( while being eager to record with every shitty band there ever was ) and by telling Axl to fuck off if he didn't want to do the whole Snakepit record. He also shouldn't have left thinking Axl wasn't actually going to use the name without him...

Those two ruined the band single handedly.

this

[bran]

So Axl sabotaged Gn'R by making choices all of his other bandmates disagreed with? Looks like it really paid off.

Admittedly I don't know what the other members' opinions were of Paul. That's something you'd have to ask Miser. All I know is that it's known that Slash was very picky about who he wanted to work with. He also snubbed Zakk Wylde.

As for the positive things Paul has done for the band, he wrote a lot of the material for CD, including TWAT, one of the most universally liked CD songs.

He didn't snub him. He was afraid Zakk would get some of his spotlight, since both of 'em are lead players.

what would be the problem with having 2 big time leads? dozens of bands have done this and have done it well. a zakk wylde and slash dueling leads would have been fucking sick to see

sounds like an ego trip IMO

[bran]

Do you only listen to critically acclaimed records? I feel bad for you.

By the way, 64 is considered "generally favorable."

this critics are some of the dumbest people on the planet IMO. a certain magazine in 1970 called black sabbaths self titled debut trash and garbage and then just a couple years ago put it in the top 10 albums of all time

also noteworthy is the fans ratings. 8.2/10 isnt too bad 107 positives 11 mixed 12 negatives

[Dariablue]

Both Slash and Axl sabotaged it :

-Axl by refusing to make the slightest effort to change his douchebag ways ( late, diva etc... ) and by wanting to change Izzy's contract ( probably his biggest mistake ) because he wasn't "moving as much as the others on stage" ( wtf )...

-Slash by being so uncompromising as regards the music style ( while being eager to record with every shitty band there ever was ) and by telling Axl to fuck off if he didn't want to do the whole Snakepit record. He also shouldn't have left thinking Axl wasn't actually going to use the name without him...

Those two ruined the band single handedly.

Awesome post!

[Johnny Drama]

No Izzy (buffer guy (musically and personally) and writing) plus Dizzy's obviously more elevated status post tour (would be on Axl's side all the time) = dead Guns.

[Vincent Vega]

No Izzy (buffer guy (musically and personally) and writing) plus Dizzy's obviously more elevated status post tour (would be on Axl's side all the time) = dead Guns.

Dizzy never factored into the break up of the old Guns....And his status wasn't elevated post tour. He was just considered a "member", a lesser member, on the same level as Matt and Gilby. Axl talked about this in 1992. Just their keyboard/piano player. Just the sixth Gunner. Axl and Dizzy didn't become closer until the late 90s after the others had gone. Also, at the time, in '94-'96, Dizzy was closer to the others, he played on Snakepit, on Gilby's solo album and also on Duff's solo album.

No one except Slash ever had any problem with Dizzy, and Slash's only problem with Dizzy was he didn't feel GN'R needed ANY keyboardist (Dizzy or ANYONE ELSE), so it wasn't a personal issue, and he eventually got used to Dizzy. Duff in his book talked about how he partied with Slash, Dizzy and Matt on the UYI tour and got in trouble. No one else has ever commented negatively on Dizzy

Edited June 24, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Sweersa]

If Slash never quit, we may have never had Buckethead in the band. That's good enough for me.

[Madridista]

If Slash never quit, we may have never had Buckethead in the band. That's good enough for me.

[dalsh327]

Both Slash and Axl sabotaged it :

-Axl by refusing to make the slightest effort to change his douchebag ways ( late, diva etc... ) and by wanting to change Izzy's contract ( probably his biggest mistake ) because he wasn't "moving as much as the others on stage" ( wtf )...

-Slash by being so uncompromising as regards the music style ( while being eager to record with every shitty band there ever was ) and by telling Axl to fuck off if he didn't want to do the whole Snakepit record. He also shouldn't have left thinking Axl wasn't actually going to use the name without him...

Those two ruined the band single handedly.

+1.

Paul had NOTHING to do with. The band was long lost before he joined in.

Axl didn't give Slash and Duff the choice of working with Paul, it was just more fuel to the fire.

I wish they had just agreed to take a long break and work on other projects through the 90s, but it really does come down to getting older and growing apart.