Why did Buckethead leave?

[themadcaplaughs]

Thanks for anyone who provides legit info to this topic. If what Madcap says is true then screw Tommy Stinson and that hack writer Del James. Seems like Bucket came to the table with legit stuff to contribute even as Guns really wasn't a fave band of his as well as inspiring Axl and he just got treated badly by band members and people in the studio. Who wouldn't be burned by that along with a prolonged release date for the album and an aborted tour. I could see why Axl had the set list as it was for the 01-02 shows as it showed a few CD songs but most importantly showed that the then new band was a force with the songs, mainly Appetitie, that everyone knows and loves. Still I'm sure Bucket would have departed sooner than later as their shows have been pretty much the same. Hope his stuff is on any other released material.

As I've said, my theory on Del and Tommy is completely speculative, based entirely on what other users have told me on various GN'R Web sites, and the fact that Tommy has never done anything but talk shit about Bucket. Everything else though, I'll stand behind 100%.

[DizzyReed63]

As said before, this is one of the most interesting threads we've had on here in... I can't even remember.

Couple follow-up questions:

Was Bucket taking the band in a different direction than where it has ended up?

Why did Brain stick with the program after Bucket had left?

Why is Tommy still in the band? It sounds like he's been a source of tension for a long time?

From more recent commentary, I get the feeling Axl figured things out too late about how that situation went down.

[californiaz06]

Thanks for anyone who provides legit info to this topic. If what Madcap says is true then screw Tommy Stinson and that hack writer Del James. Seems like Bucket came to the table with legit stuff to contribute even as Guns really wasn't a fave band of his as well as inspiring Axl and he just got treated badly by band members and people in the studio. Who wouldn't be burned by that along with a prolonged release date for the album and an aborted tour. I could see why Axl had the set list as it was for the 01-02 shows as it showed a few CD songs but most importantly showed that the then new band was a force with the songs, mainly Appetitie, that everyone knows and loves. Still I'm sure Bucket would have departed sooner than later as their shows have been pretty much the same. Hope his stuff is on any other released material.

As I've said, my theory on Del and Tommy is completely speculative, based entirely on what other users have told me on various GN'R Web sites, and the fact that Tommy has never done anything but talk shit about Bucket. Everything else though, I'll stand behind 100%.

This information is great, really cool to learn new things especially going back to 01/02. I loved that lineup.

[mr-fukaji]

This is one of the most interesting threads i've read on here in a long time.

As a GNR fan, I still feel a little upset and annoyed that the 2002 line up (specifically that line up, because I always preferred Fortus to Tobias) just weren't able to last longer than a handful of offbeat shows abroad and a fuckfest of a US tour. They were such a weird and unique group of musicians, and I think what appealed to me about them is how far removed they seemed from what i'd come to associate Guns N Roses with by that point in time. I honestly think they're the reason I still give a fuck about this band.

That team of Buckethead, Robin Finck, Brain & Richard Fortus is such a dream lineup of musicians. I'm glad they worked together while they did, but that many different people wont ever work out for so long.

It's weird to hear Buckethead is still so anti Guns, though. Didn't Axl write about how he felt lied to by Merck over the Rio thing and was open to Buckethead coming back in some way?

[ShacklerBucket]

I also found the idea of Bucket not promoting Chinese Democracy odd as it would have been a feather in his cap instead of his remix albums like Forensic Follies and Needle in a Slunk Stack. Even if he had hard feelings on the band and what he went through he should have at least associated himself with it somehow as it showcased a lot of his talents. One thing that I have always liked from the Cornbugs dvds was seeing a framed poster from the Guns Vegas shows hanging at Bucket's house. Even if Axl puts out a new album I hope Bucket and Finck's work is in the same capacity as CD and I could handle little sprinkles of DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot.

[wasted]

I've always thought there must be some wilder Bucket material lying around.

[bran]

This is one of the most interesting threads i've read on here in a long time.

As a GNR fan, I still feel a little upset and annoyed that the 2002 line up (specifically that line up, because I always preferred Fortus to Tobias) just weren't able to last longer than a handful of offbeat shows abroad and a fuckfest of a US tour. They were such a weird and unique group of musicians, and I think what appealed to me about them is how far removed they seemed from what i'd come to associate Guns N Roses with by that point in time. I honestly think they're the reason I still give a fuck about this band.

That team of Buckethead, Robin Finck, Brain & Richard Fortus is such a dream lineup of musicians. I'm glad they worked together while they did, but that many different people wont ever work out for so long.

It's weird to hear Buckethead is still so anti Guns, though. Didn't Axl write about how he felt lied to by Merck over the Rio thing and was open to Buckethead coming back in some way?

great post. that 2002 lineup was just awesome seemed like they were ready to take over the world

[californiaz06]

This is one of the most interesting threads i've read on here in a long time.

As a GNR fan, I still feel a little upset and annoyed that the 2002 line up (specifically that line up, because I always preferred Fortus to Tobias) just weren't able to last longer than a handful of offbeat shows abroad and a fuckfest of a US tour. They were such a weird and unique group of musicians, and I think what appealed to me about them is how far removed they seemed from what i'd come to associate Guns N Roses with by that point in time. I honestly think they're the reason I still give a fuck about this band.

That team of Buckethead, Robin Finck, Brain & Richard Fortus is such a dream lineup of musicians. I'm glad they worked together while they did, but that many different people wont ever work out for so long.

It's weird to hear Buckethead is still so anti Guns, though. Didn't Axl write about how he felt lied to by Merck over the Rio thing and was open to Buckethead coming back in some way?

Totally agree. That 2002 lineup was killer. So much talent across the board. It's a shame because they could have done big things. That lineup with a 2006ish Axl :

[DizzyReed63]

On top of the talent, back in '01-02 people in general were more receptive to this new incarnation of the band.

There was never a better time for the band to make its comeback than in 2002.

[vaida]

one thing is for sure: FORMER GUNNERS

[volcano62]

one thing is for sure: FORMER GUNNERS

Buckethead's parts will be featured on the next GUNS N' ROSES album.

[Hiipu]

one thing is for sure: FORMER GUNNERS

One thing is for sure. The most recent album that the band is still touring features heaps of work done by Bucket...

[Jordan Rose]

I'll see if there's anything more I can add when I have time tomorrow, although I think most of it is here.

One thing to clear up: someone said 'even though Guns wasn't one of Bucket's favourite bands': Bucket's loves and influences include Michael Jackson and horror movies. But unlike several people in the current band, Bucket actually did always love Guns and according to the most reliable person who gave me info, he still has his original Use Your Illusions vinyls he bought in 1991.

I think the 'Tommy hates Guns' thing is somewhat overstated. He didn't relate to it way back when just as Axl didn't care for The Mats and that scene but i'm sure he respects it now from a musical standpoint. He certainly respects Axl's talent as a singer and writer as he has said, he genuinely loves most of Chinese and he has enough fun playing stuff like Jungle and Michelle that it's not a chore.

Richard and Frank come from the same scene and social groups as Tommy so i'm not sure they necessarily grew up on Guns and similar rock.

Although i've heard whispers that Bumble privately disses old Guns music he's spoken really fondly of Don't Cry and you can see what he puts into Estranged so I take that with a pinch of salt.

But the point is that Bucket loved old Guns and his only issue with playing it was that he wanted to focus on new stuff whilst ironically some of the guys who care less for old Guns are relatively content to knock out most of Appetite every night.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Jordan Rose

[Mysteron]

I've been told it's more than just the lack of new music and the aborted 2002 tour with Bucket, hence why he's had absolutely zero to do with Guns since 2004, unlike Brain and Robin. Apparently several people in the camp never liked him, ostracised him and lobbied for his ejection, particularly Tommy and Del, which makes perfect sense because they're the two least likely to remotely relate to Bucket in any kind of way i.e. they're pretty boorish and laddish blokes. They pretty much openly bullied the guy. Bucket was prepared to ride that bullshit out but not indefinitely without the album or a tour. He regularly goes back and works with the same people from parts of his past, all except Guns, because 'Guns' is a dirty word to him now. Axl also owns a tonne of stuff that Bucket recorded which he'd love to use but can't because legally it's Axl's. After 10 years, and knowing Twat gets pulled out once every few years...it must be pretty depressing.

Biggest waste ever imo. Should have been Axl and Bucket on album number 3 or 4 by now, on the cover of Rolling Stone.

I know someone in the Buckethead camp (and cannot say who and how they are connected) but all this is true plus more. Apparently Robin and Buckethead did not get along well. Less open bullying like Tommy, but apparently Buckethead was really upset that Robin, who left the band so suddenly in 1999, was welcomed back with open arms in 2000 AND given the spot of being one of the lead guitarists. My friend also claimed that there were rumors that Buckethead quit as early as 2002-2003, and he was used as an excuse for the band not being able to play RIR in 2004.

Either way, as others have pointed out, Buckethead does NOT talk about Guns N' Roses at all, and it is sort of an unofficial rule with his people to NEVER mention anything about his tenure in the band. He even said the few times fans have asked Bucket about Guns N' Roses after shows, he has either completely ignored it, or in some cases walked away.

That's some of the most interesting info I've read on this forum in quite some time.

Maybe, but I would disregard it

[Damn_Smooth]

I'm with the "wrong section" crowd on this. Bucket hasn't been in the band for 8 years and nobody knows if anything he did will be on the next album. Or if there will even be a next album, for that matter.

I appreciate people telling their "inside stories", but since this is the internet, I hope you'll forgive me for taking them with a grain of salt.

[themadcaplaughs]

Was Bucket taking the band in a different direction than where it has ended up?

Why did Brain stick with the program after Bucket had left?

Why is Tommy still in the band? It sounds like he's been a source of tension for a long time?

All of the following I'm about to say is my own opinion, more or less everything I know for sure and am willing to attribute to others I've said, but I'll tackle these questions with my own logic...

1. I certainly do not think Buckethead was taking the band in a completely new direction, but comparing the demos of songs like "There was a Time" and "I.R.S." with the finished version, as well as seeing which songs Bucket helped write ("Sorry" and "Shackler's Revenge") show he certainly took the music towards areas outside the parameters other players were bringing.

2. I really cannot say why Brain stuck around. My guess would be the pay, recognition, and the fact that he seems more willing to collaborate and play with others more than Bucket.

3. Tommy is a good question. I've read a lot of people on this board say he is sort of an asshole, and he has made clear in numerous interviews that he and Axl do not get along at certain times. MSL even said in one of his posts that the band was having trouble with Tommy's drinking (if you choose to believe MSL). My best guess would be since Tommy has been there since 1998, and is a great bass player for the band, that Axl wants to keep some of the "old guard" around.

I also found the idea of Bucket not promoting Chinese Democracy odd as it would have been a feather in his cap instead of his remix albums like Forensic Follies and Needle in a Slunk Stack. Even if he had hard feelings on the band and what he went through he should have at least associated himself with it somehow as it showcased a lot of his talents. One thing that I have always liked from the Cornbugs dvds was seeing a framed poster from the Guns Vegas shows hanging at Bucket's house. Even if Axl puts out a new album I hope Bucket and Finck's work is in the same capacity as CD and I could handle little sprinkles of DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot.

He honestly does feel completely betrayed by the whole GN'R experience, and I'm sure contractually he's also been forced to keep his mouth shut, making it even more degrading that they pimped his presence on Chinese Democracy.

I appreciate people telling their "inside stories", but since this is the internet, I hope you'll forgive me for taking them with a grain of salt.

Completely understand, if I were in your position I would not put a lot of stock into what I say since rumors float around GN'R camps, but that is why I have been very careful to attribute my "inside" (if you wanna call it that) info to my friend while making sure what I am simply making guesses at is attributed only to me.

Edited June 20, 2012 by themadcaplaughs

[Mysteron]

Completely understand, if I were in your position I would not put a lot of stock into what I say since rumors float around GN'R camps, but that is why I have been very careful to attribute my "inside" (if you wanna call it that) info to my friend while making sure what I am simply making guesses at is attributed only to me.

The info is nonsense.

[Rustycage]

one thing is for sure: FORMER GUNNERS

Buckethead's parts will be featured on the next GUNS N' ROSES album.

The former member's contributions are being played during the tours.

We can do this all day.

[The Sandman]

one thing is for sure: FORMER GUNNERS

Buckethead's parts will be featured on the next GUNS N' ROSES album.

The former member's contributions are being played during the tours.

We can do this all day.

I'd rather you didn't.

[ShacklerBucket]

I recall a Kurt Loder piece on Bucket where he said that Guns wasn't completely Bucket's thing. I believe it was the article that came along with the video on the MTV website. Bucket said how he was really excited about the future with Guns and compared it to being a loaf in the oven. While Bucket has been gone for years I think his departure shadows this new touring band. Whenever someone else plays Shacklers or Sorry live it's a pretty bad scene. But that is just my opinion.

[Damn_Smooth]

I recall a Kurt Loder piece on Bucket where he said that Guns wasn't completely Bucket's thing. I believe it was the article that came along with the video on the MTV website. Bucket said how he was really excited about the future with Guns and compared it to being a loaf in the oven. While Bucket has been gone for years I think his departure shadows this new touring band. Whenever someone else plays Shacklers or Sorry live it's a pretty bad scene. But that is just my opinion.

Why would Ron playing Shackler's live be a bad scene when you haven't heard a version that he didn't play on?

[ShacklerBucket]

Well Damn the recorded album version aside from the solo and Bumble fretless parts on there it is totally a Buckethead tinged song. Played live without Bucket it is just a mess and they can't get the Bucket tone as much as they try, like the beginning of the song. Of course that is all subjective but that's my thought. I like Bumblefoot enough but to me even with his talent he can't compare to Bucket and until I hear a Guns album that's sound is partially influenced by Bumble then I may change my mind.

[ThinkAboutYou]

I'm pleased with Rons work on Chinese i would still love to hear the original demos though (pre Bumblefoot)

[ShacklerBucket]

So Finck and Bucket had a blowup at MSG the night before Philly? I would imagine that there was a lot of head scratching going in letting Finck handle half of the solos while Bucket just stood there or played rhythm. I think Axl may have thought of Finck as more of a Slash replacement as his bending style seems kind of Slash-like. With the amount of projects and albums that Bucket puts out I could see him getting tired of sitting around with no activity going on but who else would build a chicken coop for him to play in?

[Randy Lahey]

I wish Axl had never let Robin come back and fired Tommy. This band should have been built around Axl and Bucket. Everybody else expendable, in my opinion. Even today, I would fire this band in two seconds if Buckethead would come back.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Randy Lahey