Axl and Kurt: More alike than they were different

[Angelica]

Nor was it about 'homophobic, racist' shit. Kurt wrote in the insert to Incesticide that if "you are in any way against homosexuality, don't come to our shows, don't buy our records.' See, he was trying to distinguish himself from what Axl 'represented.' But really, hating on people with different worldviews than his own is just as discriminatory, close-minded, and imperialistic as anything Axl did.

No, irrespective of any Axl/Kurt crap, hating on people for being bigoted is not the same thing as hating on people for being gay or a different race. At all. Not even close.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Angelica

[Rustycage]

Kurt is overrated.

This. If he hadn't blown his head off he'd be another annoying grunge artistt. He'd be campaigning for a certain political party and trying to act "important".

Or he would have walked on the moon. See how stupid it is to make assumptions because of your butthurt?

He'd be doing his own small solo projects like he was planning to do.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Rustycage

[arnold layne]

Let's be honest here. Kurt was a lot more talented and unique than Axl could ever dream of.

Kurt was hella talented, but no.

Kurt could basically do it all on his own. He wrote all the songs, played guitar and sang.

Axl is far from special, but Kurt was someone who won't be matched by anyone for a long time. He was on a different level KDH.

[Rustycage]

Kurt certainly wasn't the best guitar player but anyone who says he didn't have talent for some complex melodies are completely full of shit.

[dalsh327]

The 1992 VMAs are a pretty historic event in music. I think that year in music was a pretty special time... not just for the old guard and new punks in rock, but that was also the year "Cop Killer" and all things gangsta rap made it on the public radar.

Vedder wanted to do "Sonic Reducer" and compromised and did "Jeremy", and the next night, he got wasted at the "Singles" premiere and made the decision he didn't want to do videos anymore.

I don't know who was bigger in '93 and '94, Pearl Jam just focused more on music & touring, less on image, and started doing less interviews. When In Utero came out, it was big, but there was a lot of WTF... kind of the same thing when PJ put out Vitalogy.

I think that helped build them into a solid live band that pulls off 3-4 hour shows a night. When he wants to do his own thing, he slowly built that up over time, but he'd always done side projects from the beginning, hell, Temple of the Dog happened when PJ was still Mookie Blaylock.

Maybe Axl should've asked Pearl Jam to open instead of Nirvana, at least Duff knew them, and there's a clip of Axl being interviewed at a club where Mother Love Bone's playing.

Soundgarden's said nothing but nice things about GNR.

But as far as upbringing, Kurt and Axl went through the same experiences. When they made it big, they handled fame very differently, it can bring out your worst qualities as we've seen on TMZ time and time again. The next time we'd see that was Tupac when he made it big. Then the videos started becoming expensive and epic, I think "California Love" is to rap what "November Rain" is to rock, and of course he put the 2 CD "All Eyez On Me".

Eminem of course has been compared to Axl because he had that "fuck off, don't bother me" attitude, a similar upbringingi, and wrote what he felt in the songs.

If Axl had a kid at a young age, would he have written songs about killing the mother of his kid? Not sure. Now they're both older, and more importantly, alive. Eddie Vedder has a great career going, it's exactly how he wants to grow old, he can do his own thing or work with Pearl Jam, and they weren't victims in the entertainment industry collapse, if anything, they've thrived really well in it.

I think an angry young kid can hear Appetite or Nevermind (and Siamese Dream, Corgan's bratty whiny kid voice did appeal to a lot of kids) and identify with it, or if they hear something by Tupac and Eminem... it's still relevant. But I do think there is a place in the world for angry old rock stars and rappers, it's just that the recording industry hasn't found out how to market it yet.

Either way, they all dealt with fame in different ways, and the 1992 VMA's is an interesting night in music to look back at. Howard Stern presenting Metallica with the award, and because he was getting all the attention, pissed Lars off big time. This was in LA, a city he had just started broadcasting in, but was getting the loudest reaction from the crowd. Sign of things to come, yet he was the most NOT "rock and roll" guy in the room. If there's any time capsule for the 90s to show the kids, that award show is it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_MTV_Video_Music_Awards

[Jakey Styley]

LOL smells like teen spirit riff stolen (and then used in another nirvana song! )

LOL come as you are riff stolen

So if any musician with bitchy teenage angst lyrics (on catchy pop songs) commits suicide, they're a genius. Cool

[arnold layne]

LOL smells like teen spirit riff stolen (and then used in another nirvana song! )

LOL come as you are riff stolen

So if any musician with bitchy teenage angst lyrics (on catchy pop songs) commits suicide, they're a genius. Cool

He was still regarded by most music critics as more talented than Axl Rose. u mad

[crackerjack]

LOL smells like teen spirit riff stolen (and then used in another nirvana song! )

LOL come as you are riff stolen

So if any musician with bitchy teenage angst lyrics (on catchy pop songs) commits suicide, they're a genius. Cool

Here's John talking about where Under a Bridge actually came from:

Here's John Frusciante talking about how he likes to sign fan's autographs @5:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAYUIYFUAE

If you don't like Nirvana, fine. No one really needs your childish comments.

[nambis]

LOL smells like teen spirit riff stolen (and then used in another nirvana song! )

LOL come as you are riff stolen

So if any musician with bitchy teenage angst lyrics (on catchy pop songs) commits suicide, they're a genius. Cool

LOL clearly you don't play any instruments. everything that any musician or band does is either intentionally or unintentionally "stolen" (your words) from someone else. like dylan said, every song has already been written. to say that cobain did this any more than axl or anyone else for that matter is fucking stupid.

Edited June 17, 2012 by nambis

[crackerjack]

I know his life didn't revolve around Axl or GN'R...It revolved around his life, his wife, his personal issues, his child, stress, music, etc I'm sure....I'm no Kurt or Nirvana die hard so yeah, I can't speak to his world, what the center of his life was. I just wanted to better bridge the gap between two guys who were seen as total enemies and also as the opposite of the other...They were icons of the same era, of the same generation, in some cases even icons to the same people....IMO Axl and Kurt are two of the biggest figures of the 90s. Their feud is sadly legendary. I just wanted better understanding and I thought analyzing or comparing the two men would be interesting and cause discussion. I never meant it to denigrate Kurt or Nirvana or anything. I just was in a thoughtful frame of mind.

I always thought his book was considered like THE Nirvana book...I didn't know Nirvana fans hate him. I'm not a Nirvana die hard, more a casual fan who'd like to be more than that.

Oh I realize Kurt was a human being. A brilliant, sensitive, amazing human being who touched a lot of others' lives and who sadly didn't love himself enough and took his own. He was a guy like any guy, full of flaws, good points, hopes, dreams, etc. I don't really know too much about Kurt the human being so much as Kurt the public figure....I hope you get that I'm not coming from a place of malice or anything toward the man. I'm not subconsciously trolling or anything. I'm coming I suppose from a place of ignorance of Kurt as a person....

I want to learn more about him and who he was and what he was as a human being....I used to hate him because when you're a young stupid teenaged GN'R fan Kurt Cobain is like the enemy who brought down GN'R and Rock N' Roll...But I've come to realize he was a very compelling, brilliant, tortured person who made beautiful music and I want to learn more about him and end the feud....Maybe help people who hate him simply because he hated Axl better understand him.

No Miser, I explained the Charles Cross's perception amongst fans back around the first or second time you made this thread. You must be willfully ignorant; have a forgetful memory, or intentionally went ahead with your thesis despite the doubt you should really have in the back of your mind. There really wasn't that much of a connection between the two people other than what was naturally incidental at the time. If anything, you are bastardizing history and creating a screenplay of drama and interconnectedness that didn't exist.

I don't know why you posted the entire Advocate article. If anything that shows you how honest and independent Kurt was. He turned down a lucrative tour with GN'R which was bigger at the time. Back in the day it was culturally acceptable to make fun of gay people. Kurt's brave venture in doing an interview with the Advocate doesn't make him anyway like Axl.

Kurt was always this way. They even got rid of one of the original drummers back in the day because he was racist redneck. Kurt's ashes are spinning tornado in their grave.

This whole thread by you was a disaster. Any crank can draw lines of comparison two opposite beings with slight evidence. I really wish you didn't make it.

[Vincent Vega]

I know his life didn't revolve around Axl or GN'R...It revolved around his life, his wife, his personal issues, his child, stress, music, etc I'm sure....I'm no Kurt or Nirvana die hard so yeah, I can't speak to his world, what the center of his life was. I just wanted to better bridge the gap between two guys who were seen as total enemies and also as the opposite of the other...They were icons of the same era, of the same generation, in some cases even icons to the same people....IMO Axl and Kurt are two of the biggest figures of the 90s. Their feud is sadly legendary. I just wanted better understanding and I thought analyzing or comparing the two men would be interesting and cause discussion. I never meant it to denigrate Kurt or Nirvana or anything. I just was in a thoughtful frame of mind.

I always thought his book was considered like THE Nirvana book...I didn't know Nirvana fans hate him. I'm not a Nirvana die hard, more a casual fan who'd like to be more than that.

Oh I realize Kurt was a human being. A brilliant, sensitive, amazing human being who touched a lot of others' lives and who sadly didn't love himself enough and took his own. He was a guy like any guy, full of flaws, good points, hopes, dreams, etc. I don't really know too much about Kurt the human being so much as Kurt the public figure....I hope you get that I'm not coming from a place of malice or anything toward the man. I'm not subconsciously trolling or anything. I'm coming I suppose from a place of ignorance of Kurt as a person....

I want to learn more about him and who he was and what he was as a human being....I used to hate him because when you're a young stupid teenaged GN'R fan Kurt Cobain is like the enemy who brought down GN'R and Rock N' Roll...But I've come to realize he was a very compelling, brilliant, tortured person who made beautiful music and I want to learn more about him and end the feud....Maybe help people who hate him simply because he hated Axl better understand him.

No Miser, I explained the Charles Cross's perception amongst fans back around the first or second time you made this thread. You must be willfully ignorant; have a forgetful memory, or intentionally went ahead with your thesis despite the doubt you should really have in the back of your mind. There really wasn't that much of a connection between the two people other than what was naturally incidental at the time. If anything, you are bastardizing history and creating a screenplay of drama and interconnectedness that didn't exist.

I don't know why you posted the entire Advocate article. If anything that shows you how honest and independent Kurt was. He turned down a lucrative tour with GN'R which was bigger at the time. Back in the day it was culturally acceptable to make fun of gay people. Kurt's brave venture in doing an interview with the Advocate doesn't make him anyway like Axl.

Kurt was always this way. They even got rid of one of the original drummers back in the day because he was racist redneck. Kurt's ashes are spinning tornado in their grave.

This whole thread by you was a disaster. Any crank can draw lines of comparison two opposite beings with slight evidence. I really wish you didn't make it.

You're taking this thread way too personally. And no, the first time you mentioned Charles Cross' reputation was in the post i replied to. I am not trying to create a "screenplay of drama and interconnectedness", just trying to find some similarities between two icons of the same era, who, if they had had the chance to really talk, might've understood each other better.

Are you related to Kurt or something, that you're saying he's spinning in his grave because of this thread? You seem literally offended that any, even slight, comparison could be drawn between him and Axl.

[Jakey Styley]

Have seen both of those Frusciante videos, funny that you went to dig them up though.

Call him talented, sure. He had a great sense of melody. I just have no idea how anyone could call him a genius or close to it. I REALLY think that label comes directly from his suicide.

[bran]

Have seen both of those Frusciante videos, funny that you went to dig them up though.

Call him talented, sure. He had a great sense of melody. I just have no idea how anyone could call him a genius or close to it. I REALLY think that label comes directly from his suicide.

i tend to agree if he had not committed suicide he would have flamed out like grunge. grunge was just a fad (a short lived one for the most part) but kurt went out at the peak so you had alot 15 or 16 year olds crying about how much of a genius he was.

[Damn_Smooth]

LOL smells like teen spirit riff stolen (and then used in another nirvana song! )

LOL come as you are riff stolen

So if any musician with bitchy teenage angst lyrics (on catchy pop songs) commits suicide, they're a genius. Cool

He was still regarded by most music critics as more talented than Axl Rose. u mad

Source? I don't see Kurt placing in the top 5 of almost every best rock vocalist list there is.

[crackerjack]

Have seen both of those Frusciante videos, funny that you went to dig them up though.

Call him talented, sure. He had a great sense of melody. I just have no idea how anyone could call him a genius or close to it. I REALLY think that label comes directly from his suicide.

What? I have a good memory that's all. Those videos just prove your glib hypocrisy. I remember you made a really dumb thread one time about how you thumb your nose a RATM fans. Like I said, no one needs your childish comments. I surprised you even made that post instead of posting a GIF.

You seem literally offended that any, even slight, comparison could be drawn between him and Axl.

Absolutely. I think this thread is pure shit. Out of respect for Kurt I think you should ask a mod to delete this thread. This thread became a wall for people that don't like Nirvana to talk about how much they don't like Nirvana. Your thesis isn't accurate and would never make it as a thread on a Nirvana forum. This whole thread is unintentional trolling. Edited June 17, 2012 by crackerjack

[Vincent Vega]

Have seen both of those Frusciante videos, funny that you went to dig them up though.

Call him talented, sure. He had a great sense of melody. I just have no idea how anyone could call him a genius or close to it. I REALLY think that label comes directly from his suicide.

What? I have a good memory that's all. Those videos just prove your glib hypocrisy. I remember you made a really dumb thread one time about how you thumb your nose a RATM fans. Like I said, no one needs your childish comments. I surprised you even made that post instead of posting a GIF.

You seem literally offended that any, even slight, comparison could be drawn between him and Axl.

Absolutely. I think this thread is pure shit. Out of respect for Kurt I think you should ask a mod to delete this thread. This thread became a wall for people that don't like Nirvana to talk about how much they don't like Nirvana. Your thesis isn't accurate and would never make it as a thread on a Nirvana forum. This whole thread is unintentional trolling.

I'm not asking for a mod to delete the thread because you don't like the responses. There are even slight similarities between them as difficult as that may be for you to bear. This isn't a Niirvana forum, it is a GN'R forum. I would mention GN'R on a Nirvana forum because to Nirvana fans, GN'R is just music for rednecks and mulletheads, and I woudn't be enlightened and politically correct enough to go and be a hipster and sip Lattes at Starbucks with fellow Nirvana fans while wearing a scarf and telling about how much corporatism and conformity sucks and how cool it is to be ironic and how brilliant, ironic and nonconformist Kurt's hair in 1992 was.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Kira]

I really dislike Miser's way of starting his 60 minutes thesis posts without any links so he can be the center of the conversation with his copy pasta. He strings together quotes and connects the dots to make up some bullshit deduction based on partial evidence. That being said I do like his threads a lot since they are entertaining and he does put a lot of thought into them. I wish Miser would stop talking shit about Kurt though. He needs to lay off the Courtney & Charles Cross's version of events.

Kurt's music was vastly different. His music had a palpable authenticity that couldn't be replicated. Like Billy Corgan he put the effort in writing pretty much all the songs on his own. When I listen to Nirvana, the last thing I think about is GN'R. Stop trying to make it look like Kurt revolved around Axl in the GN'R universe. In 1993 alternative bands like REM, Pearl Jam, AiC were eclipsing the older bands' novelties that just sounded passe. Kurt's sense of humor in using the name Bill Bailey at hotel does not make him obsessed with Axl Rose. In fact, that's a little ironic coming from the OP.

If you don't like their music, fine. What does that have to do with Axl Rose? Nirvana was never GN'R's little satellite and this whole post is an insult to Nirvana fans in my opinion.

I really couldn't disagree more. Axl and Kurt did have a lot of similarities, both were smaller guys, bullied as kids, with some form of personality disorders. They both were/are obsessed with what journalists wrote about them and have both threatened journalists. I saw it back then despite everything. A lot of people like to use their pissing contest as something emblematic of the change of times. I never thought that was true back then and years later now, I know it's not true.

Both came from somewhat whitetrash backgrounds, but whereas Axl was abused, Kurt was more ignored. Maybe that influenced how they presented themselves publicly years later. Axl sought to establish himself in a place of power, he embraced his violent reputation and didn't do anything to distance himself from the sexism that was very much a part of LA rock n roll at that time. And of course, OIAM didn't do anything to but impress on the liberal elite rock critics at the time, that he was "redneck". Kurt went the opposite way, being ultra-sensitive and championing gay and female rock artists. To him Axl was merely a symbol of the "redneck male", Kurt felt his music had to have a platform to be considered legit and punk and he used Axl as a disfavourable comparison. That hurt and pissed off Axl and he did what he always does when someone crosses him, he lashed out.

Did Kurt's life center around Axl? No, of course not. But the OP is right, Kurt did bring up Axl in several interviews at the time without being prompted. I remember that quite clearly He did speak about him quite a bit, so did Courtney. Despite Kurt publicly decrying his success, part of him also relished in it. Axl was the biggest rockstar in the world at that time, and Kurt did feel like he was competing with him and his interviews egged that on, with famewhore Courtney right behind him. The rock press jumped on Axl and Gnr. Irony was in and they were out. They really got the short end of the stick there because that was all bullshit. It wasn't true what Kurt said (although he may have wanted it to be), GnR fans and Nirvana fans weren't fighting it out in high schools across the land. We liked them both. It was just music.

These guys were in their twenties at the time, the rivalry was overblown. I'd bet if Kurt were alive today he wouldn't be slagging Axl. And in Axl interviews, no one ever asks him about Kurt. Someone should ask Axl how he felt when Kurt died. It would be interesting.

[Crash Diet]

I'm a huge Nirvana and Kurt fan in the past

Nowadays i see a different perspective the Nirvana and Kurt Cobain.

They're just hyped and hyped and Cobain can't take this and shot his brain.

Also,overall he's a very shitty guitar player, but his melodies and his lyrics are timeless.

Dave Grohl move forward which is great.

The countless Axl vs Kurt threads is bored the fuck out off me.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Crash Diet

[Snowmass]

I liked Alice & PJ, but over all grunge and esp Nirvana sucked. Every song was so damn depressing where as a GnR or Crüe or anyone metal was all about "Paradixe City" and "Girls Girls Girls". It's like Kurt- what was so damn depressing?

Edited June 17, 2012 by Snowmass

[Rustycage]

I liked Alice & PJ, but over all grunge and esp Nirvana sucked. Every song was so damn depressing where as a GnR or Crüe or anyone metal was all about "Paradixe City" and "Girls Girls Girls".

Going off of their famous album; In Bloom, Breed, Territorial Pissings, Drain You and On a Plain are no way depressing. The others are debatable. Majority of their songs are silly. I don't think you even listened to them except for their radio friendly songs.

"GNR was all about girls girls girls?"

I guess the UYI ballads weren't depressing for you?

If you're going to comment, do people a favor and at least know WTF you are talking about.

It's like Kurt- what was so damn depressing?

Most of his life being a homeless nomad coupled with depression and drug addiction. Not to mention a stomach illness that doctors couldn't diagnose until shortly before his death.

Again, please inform yourself first.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Rustycage

[Snowmass]

I liked Alice & PJ, but over all grunge and esp Nirvana sucked. Every song was so damn depressing where as a GnR or Crüe or anyone metal was all about "Paradixe City" and "Girls Girls Girls".

Going off of their famous album; In Bloom, Breed, Territorial Pissings, Drain You and On a Plain are no way depressing. The others are debatable. Majority of their songs are silly. I don't think you even listened to them except for their radio friendly songs.

"GNR was all about girls girls girls?"

I guess the UYI ballads weren't depressing for you?

If you're going to comment, do people a favor and at least know WTF you are talking about.

It's like Kurt- what was so damn depressing?

Most of his life being a homeless nomad coupled with depression and drug addiction. Not to mention a stomach illness that doctors couldn't diagnose until shortly before his death.

Again, please inform yourself first.

Yeah- all the '80's strip bands had life so easy compared to poor Kurt.

[The Sandman]

I don't think they are personally - they both had their problems and were human perhaps, and they were both professional musicians, but in terms of their actual quality, genre and output, I think they're worlds apart.

[Kira]

I think Kurt feeling the weight of carrying baggage of punk and liberal mentality basically made it necessary to hate on Axl. Yes there are important similarities between the two, and I think if Kurt saw how his own music led 20 years of its own wimpy corporate crap and the destruction of rock itself, then he'd second guess himself.

I think if he saw how dead music was today and knew of a red-headed up-and-comer from Indiana leading a band called GNR, he'd be more congenial. It's a sad circumstance, in retrospect, and shows how when you're dealing with the evil of ignorance, nobody wins (that is, unless you understand the factors contributing to it).

There are other important things: Kurt was an alpha male too. He knew touring with Gnr would mean subordinating himself in some way to Axl; answering his requests; inevitably called together for some collaboration. In Nirvana, it was Kurt then everyone else. Dave and Krist lacked self-respect and were basically doofuses, and I guarantee if Kurt was in a band similar to the one Axl was in with the original GNR (with a lot of egos), he'd do something similar to what Axl did, i.e. centralizing control, kicking people out, leaving, etc.

Forget what Kurt says, the only real reason he could hate Axl/Gnr (yet love Metallica, for example) is that he saw himself in Axl and knew that it was either interpret him as enemy or look like his little brother. It wasnt about it being 'corporate.'

Nor was it about 'homophobic, racist' shit. Kurt wrote in the insert to Incesticide that if "you are in any way against homosexuality, don't come to our shows, don't buy our records.' See, he was trying to distinguish himself from what Axl 'represented.' But really, hating on people with different worldviews than his own is just as discriminatory, close-minded, and imperialistic as anything Axl did. Once again, they're not so different.

These are all good points. I remember Courtney saying back in the day that Kurt was toying with leaving Dave and Krist or at least giving them less of the royalty shares. Sound familiar? lol

[Madridista]

I don't know if Axl and Kurt can be compared, but I do think Kurt was a little bit overrated as a musician. Nirvana did have great songs, but I don't get why some people call Cobain a god.

[Snowmass]

I don't know if Axl and Kurt can be compared, but I do think Kurt was a little bit overrated as a musician. Nirvana did have great songs, but I don't get why some people call Cobain a god.

Because he's dead. If he were still around he'd still be ugly, be about 210lbs and be a has been on VH1.