Will Dj write a hit for GNR?

[The_Universal_Sigh]

You know, if there wasn't "politics" in the music world.... as their obviously is... than I think ya maybe they could write a big rock hit as big as say whatever the latest Nickelback bullshit is or maybe a bit more modest like Metallica's Day That Never Comes but in reality? No, it can't happen. Industry people (radio jockeys, label people, mtv, etc) won't allow it to happen firstly, and even if they made it over those hurdles the public wouldn't allow it. People don't see this as "guns n roses" and people see guns n roses as not being cool anymore. It's sort of the problem Billy Corgan is facing where the industry is basically telling him "you can't have another hit" and the general public is saying "you're past your prime, it's not going to be good" before hearing it or giving it a chance.

[The Sandman]

Was Sixx AM a hit? I know it was critically well received but how did it sell, and how much of a hand did DJ play?

DJ was involved in most songs.

First album - 4* average or better.

Second - Mixed.

Regardless, the main issue between DJ writing a hit for guns is if Axl truly wants to sing the sort of songs DJ is best at writing. Sure listening to Sixx AM you can hear how Axl might sound good on them, but is there any indication that he'd want to do a song like that? If anything gets DJ kicked out or forces him to leave, I believe it will be that he and Axl don't see eye to eye creatively.

Who knows? It's a similar direction - no reason why not.

[TeeJay410]

Regardless, the main issue between DJ writing a hit for guns is if Axl truly wants to sing the sort of songs DJ is best at writing. Sure listening to Sixx AM you can hear how Axl might sound good on them, but is there any indication that he'd want to do a song like that? If anything gets DJ kicked out or forces him to leave, I believe it will be that he and Axl don't see eye to eye creatively.

Who knows? It's a similar direction - no reason why not.

I don't hear how it's a similar direction. Sixx AM sounds like Motley had a baby with Nickelback.

[Crash Diet]

Where the fuck i would know?

[Chewbacca]

i think he and axl could write a hit together yes

I approve this message!

+2

[RNRS]

RNRS -

chinese had two singles in the US, both of which were hits.

and that was with very little cooperation from the label and NO cooperation from axl.

you have no idea what you're talking about.

Don't be silly. Chinese Democracy were heavily requested and therefore made it to the positions they did in the US as the Billboard charts are mostly compiled out of airplay. Outside of the US, where charts are compiled differently it barely charted once the hype wore off. Better didn't go anywhere and Street Of Dreams wasn't even played. And don't give me that nonsense of the record company not backing it up, if a song is good enough it manages to chart just by itself. You're A Lie by Slash (not to compete but just to stay in familiar territories) cracked the top 20 by the same lack of promotion. Where Axl had the benefit of having a large name backing him up and people either being curious or just expecting more greatness from GnR only few people really know what Slash solo means.

So yeah, before you start to tell people they've got no idea what you're talking about I'd say look into the information you're spouting off a bit first before posting more nonsense.

[RNRS]

Pay close attention guys. Classic amateur maneuvers here from RNRS.

First he says: "Axl obviously can't write hits. It took him 14 years or whatever it was to finish Chinese Democracy and none of it turned into a hit."

Then, when confronted with the fact that BOTH of his statements were 100% false, he then complains that it's not fair how the hits on the chart are determined.

Lazy lazy lazy posting. When will it stop?

Pay close attention guys. Classic amateur trolling from MSL.

First he tries to make a point.

Then, when confronted with the fact that his point doesn't make sense he changes it in a personal vendetta against the person who just made him look like a fool to divert attention from the fact that he's just a noob with an ego that's grown a little too big for his boots.

If the initial points I made are too difficult for you to comprehend and all you took out of it was a complaint about the way charts are compiled, while I wasn't complaining to begin with, then just stop posting on a discussion board altogether. So far all you've done is try to make me come across as a fool yet you've not managed to actually defend your point of view by offering counterpoints. If you're not able to discuss things on a discussion board without making derogatory comments about the people that post there it leads me to believe you've not got much to say to begin with.

Now try again.

[Nosaj Thing]

Pay close attention guys. Classic amateur maneuvers here from RNRS.

First he says: "Axl obviously can't write hits. It took him 14 years or whatever it was to finish Chinese Democracy and none of it turned into a hit."

Then, when confronted with the fact that BOTH of his statements were 100% false, he then complains that it's not fair how the hits on the chart are determined.

Lazy lazy lazy posting. When will it stop?

Pay close attention guys. Classic amateur trolling from MSL.

First he tries to make a point.

Then, when confronted with the fact that his point doesn't make sense he changes it in a personal vendetta against the person who just made him look like a fool to divert attention from the fact that he's just a noob with an ego that's grown a little too big for his boots.

If the initial points I made are too difficult for you to comprehend and all you took out of it was a complaint about the way charts are compiled, while I wasn't complaining to begin with, then just stop posting on a discussion board altogether. So far all you've done is try to make me come across as a fool yet you've not managed to actually defend your point of view by offering counterpoints. If you're not able to discuss things on a discussion board without making derogatory comments about the people that post there it leads me to believe you've not got much to say to begin with.

Now try again.

:rofl-lol: I really laugh when the bitter ex-wrestler gets owned here.

[TeeJay410]

Pay close attention guys. Classic amateur maneuvers here from RNRS.

First he says: "Axl obviously can't write hits. It took him 14 years or whatever it was to finish Chinese Democracy and none of it turned into a hit."

Then, when confronted with the fact that BOTH of his statements were 100% false, he then complains that it's not fair how the hits on the chart are determined.

Lazy lazy lazy posting. When will it stop?

Pay close attention guys. Classic amateur trolling from MSL.

First he tries to make a point.

Then, when confronted with the fact that his point doesn't make sense he changes it in a personal vendetta against the person who just made him look like a fool to divert attention from the fact that he's just a noob with an ego that's grown a little too big for his boots.

If the initial points I made are too difficult for you to comprehend and all you took out of it was a complaint about the way charts are compiled, while I wasn't complaining to begin with, then just stop posting on a discussion board altogether. So far all you've done is try to make me come across as a fool yet you've not managed to actually defend your point of view by offering counterpoints. If you're not able to discuss things on a discussion board without making derogatory comments about the people that post there it leads me to believe you've not got much to say to begin with.

Now try again.

Last care bear I promise.

[Nosaj Thing]

RNRS -

You flat out said Axl can't write hits and nothing from Chinese was a hit.

My point was that Chinese had two hits in the US.

You were wrong.

There is no personal vendetta involved. You've already admitted now that Chinese did have hits despite originally saying it didn't. You shifted your argument to complaining about how hits are compiled.

Lazy lazy lazy posting.

Pi2Loc -

If you think that was me getting owned, you either don't know what words mean or you are a semi-functioning survivor of severe brain trauma. Those are the only things I can think of that would explain how you would think I'm being owned when someone says Chinese had no hits and then are proven wrong.

You've been owned in this forum multiple times bitter ex-wrestler. The fact that you blindly deny that is beyond me. How was it? Oh... #trollbetter

[TeeJay410]

RNRS -

My point was that Chinese had two hits in the US.

Would you say that libertad had hits in the u.s.?

[dalsh327]

No one knows if the next song they put out to the public is a guaranteed hit. It's usually a producer or engineer that hears something special, something different, and gives feedback to the band on it. When you're in the creative process, you can't know the outcome of any song. Sometimes your head is in a dark place, and it winds up becoming a classic song. Sometimes the songs write themselves, maybe it's a higher power, maybe subconsciously stealing from someone. Almost all songwriters get paranoid that they're committing plagiarism because it came to them in minutes. I just think that goes into the 10,000 hours that led up to it coming out of them so effortlessly.

Axl took his songwriting for granted when he said he could write more AFD-like songs (the Kim Fowley story). He prob. has tons of stuff written over 30 years, and if he wanted to draw on stuff he wrote at 20, 30, or 40, he knows he can draw on it, and use it when he needs to. Considering how much he wrote in the forums, I'm sure he's worn out the keys on his laptop with ideas for songs.

But if he wanted a guaranteed hit, he'd call Izzy and Duff up for a few weeks (as well as Tobias), work on songs with the band, and kick ideas around with them. I do believe there's enough releasable material right now, but the buzz of a "return to AFD" would def. wake programming directors up. It's a no brainer move, and even without Slash's sleazy lead on it, could easily have new music by the end of the year.

[TeeJay410]

Would you say that libertad had hits in the u.s.?

well it definitely had at least one. she builds quick machines was a #2 hit. the last fight reached #16, which i guess you could call a hit if you wanted, but to me a big hit would have to be top 5 or so.

fair enough. But couldn't one argue that the length of time in the top 10 or 5 is important as well? Chinese Democracy made a huge splash in the first week due to internet sales and curiosity, but it slipped rather quickly in the following weeks. Personally speaking, I've never heard the song on the radio. I haven't heard better either. I'm not as familiar with how long that spent on the chart. #5 for cd on the mainstream rock chart was the debut, but it fell quickly. I don't know if I would call that a big hit. I don't know about better, maybe that reached no. 3 organically and if so good. It's a good song. But to bring it back to the point, those songs don't sound much like anything ashba has recorded. My confidence in him to make a hit single with Axl is slim. Guns N' Roses hits from CD were more from curiosity as opposed to genuine interest or true staying power. Without the mystery of not releasing an album in 17 years, there's little interest in a new guns n roses single without Slash playing guitar.

[RNRS]

RNRS -

You flat out said Axl can't write hits and nothing from Chinese was a hit.

My point was that Chinese had two hits in the US.

You were wrong.

There is no personal vendetta involved. You've already admitted now that Chinese did have hits despite originally saying it didn't. You shifted your argument to complaining about how hits are compiled.

Lazy lazy lazy posting.

Actually, I never admitted that Chinese Democracy contained hit songs. I talked about the chart positions, therefore proving my point how the songs didn't go anywhere and therefore weren't any hits. Again, if all you take out of the things people post here are things to prove your points as opposed to taking in the counterpoints that prove how blatantly wrong you are you will always be right in your own little world.

We're a few posts further and you still haven't given me examples of hits coming from Chinese Democracy. A song charting in the Billboard Hot 100 does not automatically mean hit song, no one things of songs that have charted at 76 (Better) when thinking about hits. A hit is a song everyone has heard, everyone wants to hear in concert and unless you're completely delusional I doubt that many people have actually buy tickets for Guns N Roses live to hear songs like Better and Chinese Democracy, this proving itself by the massive lines at the bathrooms in America when the song gets played or just the look of utter boredom on people's faces when your so called hits gets played.

You've been owned in this forum multiple times bitter ex-wrestler.

Feel free to show an example of someone proving me wrong. Good luck.

Now I'm not out here to own anyone and I'm not one of the biggest posters on this board, but as far as I'm concerned I've now proven you wrong three times in a row by going over the same thing several times due to you lacking examples that back up your story. Still, you've made it quite clear how you can't comprehend several things in here and have very different definitions of what a hit is compared to people that don't lack common sense, but you changing the definition of the word just so you can tell others how right you are doesn't actually mean you are right to begin with.

Edited June 29, 2012 by RNRS

[TeeJay410]

i heard chidem & better on my local rock station numerous times.

regardless, the only point i'm making is that RNRS was wrong when he said axl couldn't write a hit and that chinese had no hits.

he then admitted there were hits, but complained about the criteria.

but why lie in the first place and say there weren't any?

and who the fuck even cares about hits? like whatever you like. why does anyone care what other people like?

My point is, while CD might have had two songs in the top 5, it wasn't like they made waves. It was more out of curiosity they were there. For comparison, they didn't exactly do AC/DC or Metallica numbers as far as chart hits went. While the songs were in the top 5, it is sort of misleading because the songs never exactly took the rock world by storm. That isn't because Axl can't write a good song, but the general public in the US doesn't seem all that interested. The point of the topic was to ask if we thought DJ could write a hit for GN'R, and judging from the performance of the singles by chinese democracy which were propped by the intrigue and mystique of the band and album, the answer seems to be no. Not because he can't write good songs, but really without any real interest from listeners it won't matter what guns puts out. Without that same mystery that not releasing an album in 17 years offered, there's next to no interest in new guns n roses music by rock radio unless the lead guitar player is named Slash.

I'd love to be proven wrong though and have the band come out with a kick ass song that takes the nation by storm, but it's rather unlikely.

[axl8302]

"GUNS N' ROSES' 'Chinese Democracy' Single Is A Radio Smash".

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=107607

[suckerpunched03]

He probably already has helped on a great song but like the rest of this shit, we won't hear it anyway.

[RNRS]

We're a few posts further and you still haven't given me examples of hits coming from Chinese Democracy

the album had two top five hits. this has been covered in numerous recent threads. if you are not aware of this, perhaps you should educate yourself more on the subjects you choose to speak so flippantly about.

Yeah, two top 5 hits. In the US Rock charts.

Those charts were developed to showcase what songs were most played on modern rock radio as rock radio had started to become a big thing of itself. Again, those positions indicate that both songs were massively requested by fans who had already made up their mind in regards to wanting to hear the stuff, simply due to the enormous anticipation for Chinese Democracy among rock radio fans. The thing is though, an audience of GnR fans does not consist of rock radio fans, it's audience is the same audience that bought the Greatest Hits record. In order to have a hit song you have to be able to draw in all sorts of audience. And that's why Sweet Child, Paradise City, November Rain are considered hit songs, and nothing of Chinese Democracy will ever be considered a hit song, no matter how high they charted in the US Rock charts.

When, however, looking at the real definition of a hit, as in a song that is popular under the audience that it's made for it both songs fell flat on their face. No one releases albums just for a selected audience, especially not Axl Rose, who wants his stuff to be succesful and wants appreciation and acknowledgement from the people he plays and records for. The first single barely cracked the top 40 in the Billboard Hot 100 and the second was in and out of that chart in no time. Once all anticipatoin was gone and a third single was released it went nowhere. No one requested the song on Rock Radio. You tell me, how is Street Of Dreams less commercially attractive than Chinese Democracy?

Now let's look at it from a global scale. And since GnR's fanbase is a lot bigger outside of America, and the money is outside of America. There's no hit songs, the first single didn't chart despite it being promoted on radio here. It's therefore safe to say that Chinese Democracy did not spawn any hits, just by using common sense and the sheer logic of using facts to prove a point as opposed to twisting the facts in order to be able to prove a point when being confronted with the fact that common sense outrules your own definition of things.

Edited June 29, 2012 by RNRS

[RNRS]

anybody know what planet this guy is living on?

he seems to be under the impression that fan requests are determining what's getting played on mainstream radio in the US?!?

i assume you'll be looking forward to santa claus later in the year as well?

Actually, yes. Considering how there was a major buzz going on back then radio stations were heavily influenced by what people wanted to hear in regards to Chinese Democracy. However, if by your theory radio stations do not take into account what it's audience wants to hear, and the album had no backing from anyone, why was it played as often on radio as it was? A song can only become a hit once audiences start to request it more often. If a radio receives no input from it's audience in regards to a song the song is dropped from the playlist. Again, common sense.

But once again, if you need to hide yourself behind derogatory comments to divert attention from your own words this only indicates that you've not got much to say to begin with. You're starting to sound like a tape look stuck in your own own dated cassette player, incapable of recording and therefore taking in information, and only capable of playing whatever information they put on you years ago.

[axl8302]

anybody know what planet this guy is living on?

he seems to be under the impression that fan requests are determining what's getting played on mainstream radio in the US?!?

i assume you'll be looking forward to santa claus later in the year as well?

Actually, yes. Considering how there was a major buzz going on back then radio stations were heavily influenced by what people wanted to hear in regards to Chinese Democracy. However, if by your theory radio stations do not take into account what it's audience wants to hear, and the album had no backing from anyone, why was it played as often on radio as it was? A song can only become a hit once audiences start to request it more often. If a radio receives no input from it's audience in regards to a song the song is dropped from the playlist. Again, common sense.

But once again, if you need to hide yourself behind derogatory comments to divert attention from your own words this only indicates that you've not got much to say to begin with. You're starting to sound like a tape look stuck in your own own dated cassette player, incapable of recording and therefore taking in information, and only capable of playing whatever information they put on you years ago.

Oh so the album had hits then? Earlier you said that it didn't have any hits. Make your mind up.

We're a few posts further and you still haven't given me examples of hits coming from Chinese Democracy

the album had two top five hits. this has been covered in numerous recent threads. if you are not aware of this, perhaps you should educate yourself more on the subjects you choose to speak so flippantly about.

Yeah, two top 5 hits. In the US Rock charts.

Those charts were developed to showcase what songs were most played on modern rock radio as rock radio had started to become a big thing of itself. Again, those positions indicate that both songs were massively requested by fans who had already made up their mind in regards to wanting to hear the stuff, simply due to the enormous anticipation for Chinese Democracy among rock radio fans. The thing is though, an audience of GnR fans does not consist of rock radio fans, it's audience is the same audience that bought the Greatest Hits record. In order to have a hit song you have to be able to draw in all sorts of audience. And that's why Sweet Child, Paradise City, November Rain are considered hit songs, and nothing of Chinese Democracy will ever be considered a hit song, no matter how high they charted in the US Rock charts.

When, however, looking at the real definition of a hit, as in a song that is popular under the audience that it's made for it both songs fell flat on their face. No one releases albums just for a selected audience, especially not Axl Rose, who wants his stuff to be succesful and wants appreciation and acknowledgement from the people he plays and records for. The first single barely cracked the top 40 in the Billboard Hot 100 and the second was in and out of that chart in no time. Once all anticipatoin was gone and a third single was released it went nowhere. No one requested the song on Rock Radio. You tell me, how is Street Of Dreams less commercially attractive than Chinese Democracy?

Now let's look at it from a global scale. And since GnR's fanbase is a lot bigger outside of America, and the money is outside of America. There's no hit songs, the first single didn't chart despite it being promoted on radio here. It's therefore safe to say that Chinese Democracy did not spawn any hits, just by using common sense and the sheer logic of using facts to prove a point as opposed to twisting the facts in order to be able to prove a point when being confronted with the fact that common sense outrules your own definition of things.

This is the ACTUAL definition of a hit, not your skewed made up definition.

A hit single is a recorded song or instrumental released as a single that has become very popular. Although it is sometimes used to describe any widely-played or big-selling song, the term "hit" is usually reserved for a single that has appeared in an official music chart through repeated radio.

Edited June 29, 2012 by axl8302

[finck6]

Given his track record with Sixx Am and Motely do you think Dj will write a hit for GNR?

Or will just become part of the tapestry or not even get a credit on CD 2.

I think it could happen almost by accident. Dj has the sound that is popular right now. Coupled with Axls vocals. If they don't over complicate it and the lyrics are simple.

a BIG FAT NO 2 that question

[RNRS]

Would you agree it would only be fair for you to let us know about your experience working in the music and radio industries, since you claim to be well versed in what determines airplay?

CD's singles could have been Axl playing a flute and UMG would have still had enough juice to get them a few weeks of airplay.

My personal life and experiences don't have much to do in regards to my knowledge as to what determines airplay. Magazines like Billboard have run articles on how record companies buy up airspace for the stuff they want to promote, and although there's no radio station that'll ever admit playing what they've been told to play it's a well known thing among that part of the business, hence Axl complaining about the lack of support from the record company. It's only the really small radio stations that can dictate their own airplay, but even those will cater to their audiences by playing what their audiences want, which leads back to the massive requesting for Chinese Democracy.

UMG however had good reasons not to invest money whatsoever on a promo campaign for Chinese Democracy as Axl was completely unavailable for any promo work from the moment he actually handed in the album. UMG not investing money also meant no investing in airspace, hence the single needing to rely on fan demand, something Universal hoped would be strong and this worked. The problem however was, like I said before, that there was only a specific audience who requested the song. The singles were never picked up by the audiences Universal hoped for, this showing itself in the Billboard Hot 100, which in the end is the only chart artists and people in the business refer to after a few years. Universal could've given any song from Chinese Democracy enough funding to get played thousands of times and therefore making it to the top of the charts but they chose not to as audiences never picked up on the songs from the beginning when the novelty already wore off once they'd reached the tops of the US Rock charts.

When listening to Chinese Democracy it's quite clear that there isn't a single song on there that could have become a hit. There's catchy elements here and there like the hook in Better, but there's no song that's catchy as a whole, hence me saying Axl being incapable of writing a hit. This is not a dig at the quality of the songs, Estranged is a good song as well but was never a hit either. If Axl however couldn't get it together after 14 years, certainly Ashba isn't going to get him anywhere either.

Edited June 29, 2012 by RNRS

[Guest GHS]

If even Axl failed to do alone a hit, how could DJ Ashba do that?

[Jakey Styley]

Why do you guys think rock hits can exist anymore in the US?

[Scaramouche]

Yes, he will!