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Axl needs to work on writing simpler songs.


arnold layne

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

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The disappointment was the material, not because they didn't mail pamphlets out to everyone. Tell me some other bands that had the same kind of buzz for their album? The anticipation was there but the material sucked and no one talked about it anymore.

look. if axl promoted the album as hard as he promotes these cash grab tours of slash greatest hits....we'd have all the unreleased chinese democracy material on multiple guns n roses albums by now

Give it to the other guys, not me. I'm not taking that bait.

If the material was good enough, people would be buying the new record instead of AFD and GH's.

you're not listening. it's about promotion. you could have 13 shitty songs. but if it's promoted properly.....it debuts #1 on all the charts

This is no longer a market that goes for washed up bands. I simply disagree. This isn't the market for GNR to be #1. Those days are gone. The material spoke for itself and it didn't say much.

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

i care because of the fact use your illusion 1 and 2 debut #1 & #2 respectively first week sales on billboard top 200 album chart

if axl promoted the new guns n roses record the same way axl promoted the shit out of the illusions months in advance.....chinese democracy would be a MONSTER sales machine in the record books. but again. axl didn't promote the record

when does somebody admit axl didn't promote the record?

you met axl rose. right? you see them live on this tour. right?

if axl rose worked as hard at these live shows you saw axl in with the chinese democracy record back in 2008......things would be a lot different

axl doesn't show the same dedication for new albums as he does for tours. axl's heart is in the 3 hour live show of classic guns n roses hits. axl's heart isn't in being #1 with new guns n roses albums of new material or the promotion of new guns n roses material on new guns n roses albums

Edited by finck6
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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

Hell yeah,No Fergie on GNR Albums!! Integrity trumps mediawhores imo. :thumbsup:

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I don´t think the problem is whether the songs are simple or complex but people´s expectations. A lot of people expected AFD2 and they were disappointed with what CD had to offer.

Why anyone expected AFD2 is beyond me. They should be thankful they didn't get a techno album.

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I don´t think the problem is whether the songs are simple or complex but people´s expectations. A lot of people expected AFD2 and they were disappointed with what CD had to offer.

if that were true. it goes back 2 promotion. why? it's axl's job to change those expectations with promotion and promotion with what the new guns n roses record actually is. again. axl didn't do it. axl didn't promote. the expectations of AFD2 didn't change

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I don't think people expected AFD2 but they surely expected something big considering it was the most expensive album and became a legend during it's creation.

It was comparable to a big budget movie with a bunch of effects but zero story line. People yawned.

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I don't think people expected AFD2 but they surely expected something big considering it was the most expensive album and became a legend during it's creation.

It was comparable to a big budget movie with a bunch of effects but zero story line. People yawned.

zero story line. zero promotion by axl rose too

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I don´t think the problem is whether the songs are simple or complex but people´s expectations. A lot of people expected AFD2 and they were disappointed with what CD had to offer.

people had mixed reactions to the illusions as well. Why dont they simply put AFD on repeat if they are stuck in the past?? :shrug:

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I don't think people expected AFD2 but they surely expected something big considering it was the most expensive album and became a legend during it's creation.

It was comparable to a big budget movie with a bunch of effects but zero story line. People yawned.

zero story line. zero promotion by axl rose too

Christ. What other album had as much anticipation? What other album was talked about as much pre-release?

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I don´t think the problem is whether the songs are simple or complex but people´s expectations. A lot of people expected AFD2 and they were disappointed with what CD had to offer.

if that were true. it goes back 2 promotion. why? it's axl's job to change those expectations with promotion and promotion with what the new guns n roses record actually is. again. axl didn't do it. axl didn't promote. the expectations of AFD2 didn't change

Nop, imo, Axl´s job is to compose and perform his music not to try to change people´s expectations. You can´t compose a song thinking of whether people are going to like it or not.

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

Hell yeah,No Fergie on GNR Albums!! Integrity trumps mediawhores imo. :thumbsup:

You can make a better post if you do the following:

1) Stick to the topic.

2) Don't try to incite people

3) Don't be so lazy - think before you post.

4) Stay away from dragging former members into discussion

Follow the four above guidelines, and someday you will be a great contributer to GNR discussion.

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I don't think people expected AFD2 but they surely expected something big considering it was the most expensive album and became a legend during it's creation.

It was comparable to a big budget movie with a bunch of effects but zero story line. People yawned.

Yes, but the expectation wasn't too big either. The MIA years and the silent years destroyed Axl and his new vision of Guns N' Roses. I mean, there's a huge difference between forming a new band and continuing on with a big fuckin' one replacing every member.

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I don´t think the problem is whether the songs are simple or complex but people´s expectations. A lot of people expected AFD2 and they were disappointed with what CD had to offer.

if that were true. it goes back 2 promotion. why? it's axl's job to change those expectations with promotion and promotion with what the new guns n roses record actually is. again. axl didn't do it. axl didn't promote. the expectations of AFD2 didn't change

Nop, imo, Axl´s job is to compose and perform his music not to try to change people´s expectations. You can´t compose a song thinking of whether people are going to like it or not.

exactly!! you cant please everyone so you got to please yourself. ;)

I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

Hell yeah,No Fergie on GNR Albums!! Integrity trumps mediawhores imo. :thumbsup:

You can make a better post if you do the following:

1) Stick to the topic.

2) Don't try to incite people

3) Don't be so lazy - think before you post.

4) Stay away from dragging former members into discussion

Follow the four above guidelines, and someday you will be a great contributer to GNR discussion.

Doubt that I'm an impulsive creature of the night. But,hey at least you are polite and not at all like the influx of cretins as of late. :)

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

i care because of the fact use your illusion 1 and 2 debut #1 & #2 respectively first week sales on billboard top 200 album chart

if axl promoted the new guns n roses record the same way axl promoted the shit out of the illusions months in advance.....chinese democracy would be a MONSTER sales machine in the record books. but again. axl didn't promote the record

when does somebody admit axl didn't promote the record?

you met axl rose. right? you see them live on this tour. right?

if axl rose worked as hard at these live shows you saw axl in with the chinese democracy record back in 2008......things would be a lot different

axl doesn't show the same dedication for new albums as he does for tours. axl's heart is in the 3 hour live show of classic guns n roses hits. axl's heart isn't in being #1 with new guns n roses albums of new material or the promotion of new guns n roses material on new guns n roses albums

Oh I know the promotion was limited. However they done that thing with best buy, which probably limited doing any other promotion in certain ways.

I honestly believe, and you can understand by the rolling stone interview in 2009 and some of the Axl forum chats, that Universal and Interscope fucked the band over dramatically. It isn't in Axl's nature not to promote an album, he described the process as a nightmare. I think it was Axl intention to release the album at the end of 2006/early 2007 after the world tour (the biggest promotion you can do for an album) however something fucked it up and wasn't released until nearly 2 years later, and i'm unsure why that is.

Now what i don't understand is, Axl has ALWAYS played new material on a tour before an album drops, but there hasn't been any new songs on this tour, perhaps this next album is further away that some of us would hope, or Axl is changing his tactics.

Remember, you are talking about the guy who turned down $250,000,000 for a reunion tour/album with the original band. He rarely gives interviews or plays on other peoples songs or guests anywhere else - not exactly getting his name out there to non-gnr fans. I reckon he's been on top of the world (illusions tour) and has nothing to prove any more except for winding down into his old age by touring keeping the legacy alive and releasing something when he and the band is ready and generally having a good time doing it all. It's his project, it's his call.

I also think that most of the fans crying out for a new album weren't around for the original line ups, so we tend to think we have missed out on a lot in GNR history by being born to late. Axl was all over MTV at one point, does he need to be in todays world?

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CD realistically should have debuted at #1. It's perfectly reasonable to expect Axl Rose to outsell Kanye West and Taylor Swift in the 21st century. :rolleyes:

GNR 20 years ago...#1 GNR today...less relevant. Everyone outside of die-hards moved on.

Sarcasm detector broken?

CD realistically should have debuted at #1. It's perfectly reasonable to expect Axl Rose to outsell Kanye West and Taylor Swift in the 21st century. :rolleyes:

exactly it's reasonable. if axl rose had properly promoted the record months in advance.....chinese democracy would have crushed kanyne west & taylor swift with a #1 debut first week on the top 200 billboard album chart. but axl didn't promote it. axl rejected bestbuy's promotion plan

No, it's not reasonable at all. Kanye and Taylor are/were two of the most popular artists in the world when CD was released, and to expect a poorly promoted, Best Buy exclusive album by a 20 year old rock band to outsell them is ludicrous. CD sold 300,000 copies in its opening week, which is impressive in its own right.

Edited by bacardimayne
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One thing Chinese Democracy was was complex, I would even say too complex. This is the biggest reason as to why I think most people didn't like it.

If Axl choses to release a new album (which I highly doubt) he should write simpler catchy songs. He doesn't have the guitar skill readily available anymore, so I think he should use Bumblefoot, Fortus and Ashba to help write easy and catchy songs.

I'm going to have to bring up Kurt Cobain.

One reason as to why Kurt Cobain was so successful with Nevermind was because it was catchy and it sampled many different music styles. Territorial Pissings was catchy heavy metal, Polly was acoustic, Come As You Are is soft rock, but all were catchy.

Appetite for Destruction was raw and simple as well.

I think there is a lot to be said about that. The human ear I think appreciates easy and catchy tunes. Axl needs to remember that bigger doesn't always mean better in a musical sense.

Agree or disagree?

I disagree.

According to a couple of the most loyal GnR fans around, CD and Better were huge commericial smash hits. Both released in a time where - according to them - rock songs rarely are considered hits.

So I'd say two top hits would make any album a success - so why would the band change their writing style?

But back to reality -

I still don't know why the album didn't produce any hits.

Better is super catchy. And addressing your point, IRS is probably the most radio friendly pop-rock type song on the album, and it has the absolute worst lyrics on the album - but I don't think they even released it as a single.

SOD should have been a hit. Catcher should have been a hit. Shacklers should have been a hit.

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

Hell yeah,No Fergie on GNR Albums!! Integrity trumps mediawhores imo. :thumbsup:

Hear! Hear! thumbsup.gif

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

Hell yeah,No Fergie on GNR Albums!! Integrity trumps mediawhores imo. :thumbsup:

Hear! Hear! thumbsup.gif

Hi Archer! :thumbsup:

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I would agree if I cared about success for the band, as in getting them in the charts.

Like most stuff in the charts it would be shit. Would you rather Axl write great songs that only the fans will appreciate or stripped down (catchy but nothing great) songs and be more famous, like the Foo Fighters/Green day? Shall Flo Rida feature on a track too?

I'll take Axl's vision and his music over any top 10 selling singles. Unless I'm employed to promote the band, I don't need to worry about getting GNR any more fans or selling more CD's.

Hell yeah,No Fergie on GNR Albums!! Integrity trumps mediawhores imo. :thumbsup:

you forget that Axl had a cast of charachters come in to record on this, Brian May, Shaq, and others - and quick question, where were the great songs and timeless classics? There were no SCOM, PC, WTTJ, Estranged, NR on this

AFD didn't set the world on fire until a year after it was released and nobody ever heard of them!

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I want it good and complex, some simple stuff but if songs are complex I find it more fun to listen to over a longer time (if it's good ofcourse). Just letting Ron and Fortus go wild with ideas.

Protest the Hero is my favorite band so I have no problem with complex stuff.

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