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One reason CD wasn't the success it should have been


Apollo

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I would like to thank everybody here for sticking to the topic and not making personal attacks on those you disagree with. Thank you!

I find it very interesting to see people with opposing views have an intelligent debate.

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I would like to thank everybody here for sticking to the topic and not making personal attacks on those you disagree with. Thank you!

I find it very interesting to see people with opposing views have an intelligent debate.

i agree, mygnr needs more threads like this.

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I would like to thank everybody here for sticking to the topic and not making personal attacks on those you disagree with. Thank you!

I find it very interesting to see people with opposing views have an intelligent debate.

Good topic groghan.

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I would like to thank everybody here for sticking to the topic and not making personal attacks on those you disagree with. Thank you!

I find it very interesting to see people with opposing views have an intelligent debate.

Good topic groghan.

Thanks! And thanks Maynard.

I find it fascinating when people have completely different opinions on an issue. I love to hear people be passionate about an issue when they disagree with me. That dynamic often reshapes my idea on something that I thought was fact.

It is also so pleasant to see people have a mature debate without resorting to the "you must be retarded" and "bitter ex-fan" crap.

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true, there's no party anthems on CD. UYI had a few left over from AFD. Maybe there should have been 10 rockers on CD. People like songs about drinking and drug addiction. but if you aren't that into anymore should you really be writing lyrics about it.

Edited by wasted
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I am not certain that I agree with your premise that CD should have been a bigger success.

How come?

I guess I would somewhat agree to that, and with what Classic said, in terms that CD probably appeals more to the older crowd. Nickleback will sell more, because it appeals to the teenage crowd.

That was more or less what I mind in mind with my post :). I don't think Axl aimed for pleasing everybody with CD. That being said, I think he is disappointed by how it has been treated by critics and some of the older fans.

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The one reason CD wasn't a success is due to the fact it dosn't have mass appeal.

The only remaining Guns N'Roses member who has mass appeal is Slash, and even he is no longer as big as the AFD days. Credit where credit is due, Slash works hard when it comes to promotion. He's on magazine covers, TV shows, does interviews, and most importantly puts out music. Unlike Axl, who appears to fail at all these things, and appears to live off past glory, and the band name or which is only only entitled to 1/5th (forgetting the lawyers) which we the fans know to be correct.

Edited by vaida
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Some fans don't want to settle down and get married. They want to stay single with no attachments, different girls every night, no responsibilites. So while marriage and having kids is the greatest thing ever - some people are just not ready for that stage in life yet.

This point requires an entire thread in itself

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The one reason CD wasn't a success is due to the fact it dosn't have mass appeal.

The only remaining Guns N'Roses member who has mass appeal is Slash, and even he is no longer as big as the AFD days. Credit where credit is due, Slash works hard when it comes to promotion. He's on magazine covers, TV shows, does interviews, and most importantly puts out music. Unlike Axl, who appears to fail at all these things, and appears to live off past glory, and the band name or which is only only entitled to 1/5th (forgetting the lawyers) which we the fans know to be correct.

I wouldn't really argue that Slash still has "mass appeal." He's more like Ozzy around the time "The Osbournes" was playing on MTV. He's recognized, and kids think he's "cool," but he's not relevant musically.

His latest album just went Double Tin Foil (like every post GnR release he's had aside from Contraband) and will struggle to hit 125,000 copies sold in the US. His single that's supposedly a "#1 hit" has never even shown up on the top 200 on the iTunes rock single sales charts. He's certainly seen as "cool" and in a nice positive light, but the fact is that nobody (outside of a few diehard fans) cares about his music anymore.

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CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

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CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

axl rose is behind the lack of promotion and chinese democracy videos

and

this i love would have been the next november rain single. robin finck's EPIC TIL solo tops slash solo on the november rain single

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It didn't sell as well as planned because it just didn't connect to an audience past the initial curiosity period. Strong debut; then downfall shortly after. Had he not streamed the whole thing prior, and had given more time and effort from his end promoting it, it may have had a stronger debut, but given what we know about the general public's reception, the media, and the hardcores being split in half over the album, I think the end result would've been the same.

People knew about the record. It was promoted pretty well by outside sources. But given the comments you see from musical publications, and the general public outside these forums, it just didn't come off as a good record, or what in essence made Guns N' Roses, Guns N' Roses. And it gave more evidence than not that the name's too heavy for Axl to just carry on his own without any of the people that gave the weight and credit to the name along with him. It seemed too frankensteined together, employees working for the main goal of achieving the head honcho's vision, forced to work together, and somehow make it work, and that kinda came off in the music. It's just too all over the place, unfocused, and drastically different from how people saw the definition of what is Guns N' Roses.

Hat's off to all those that think another nu album (especially IF it's in the same vain as CD) will do well. I personally don't see it happening. But there's no point in going back and forth on that yet again, as there's really only one way to find out...

Edited by Bobbo
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I am not certain that I agree with your premise that CD should have been a bigger success.

How come?

I guess I would somewhat agree to that, and with what Classic said, in terms that CD probably appeals more to the older crowd. Nickleback will sell more, because it appeals to the teenage crowd.

That was more or less what I mind in mind with my post :). I don't think Axl aimed for pleasing everybody with CD. That being said, I think he is disappointed by how it has been treated by critics and some of the older fans.

I as well, a bit.

Any reviewer or fan who doesn't give it a chance just because of Axl's personality or because of the old guys.....I just don't get it.

I understand if somebody listens and just doesn't like it. But to dismiss an album just because Slash isn't on it? Makes no sense.

I coach teen basketball and baseball and have played the CD to maybe 50 teens, and none of them liked it. A few liked Shacklers. But none of them asked for more info, for me to burn them a copy, to borrow the cd to put on their ipods.

My son likes it but he is a huge GnR fan.

So why do you think Illusions appealed to teens and early 20s, but CD didn't? Imo, SOD, Madagascar, Catcher, TWAT sound like classic illusions. Better, IRS, Shacklers....all pretty catchy.

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Some fans don't want to settle down and get married. They want to stay single with no attachments, different girls every night, no responsibilites. So while marriage and having kids is the greatest thing ever - some people are just not ready for that stage in life yet.

This point requires an entire thread in itself

I liked the entire example and thought it was a pretty good description of the difference between appetite, illusions and cd. I'm glad somebody noticed it!

Finck.....................

Please don't cupcake this into a topic that gets into the stupid slash-v-Axl, new fan vs old fan wars, where people start insulting others.

We all get it. You love Robin, and you blame Axl for no promotion.

Continually bashing Axl, and going overboard about Robin is just going to bring this topic down to the stupid fighting that goes on in every other post.

I am respectfully asking you to not cupcake this thread. Thank you.

Edited by Groghan
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Some fans don't want to settle down and get married. They want to stay single with no attachments, different girls every night, no responsibilites. So while marriage and having kids is the greatest thing ever - some people are just not ready for that stage in life yet.

This point requires an entire thread in itself

I liked the entire example and thought it was a pretty good description of the difference between appetite, illusions and cd. I'm glad somebody noticed it!

you didn't realize axl is the reason why cd wasnt' the success it should've been

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Some fans don't want to settle down and get married. They want to stay single with no attachments, different girls every night, no responsibilites. So while marriage and having kids is the greatest thing ever - some people are just not ready for that stage in life yet.

This point requires an entire thread in itself

I liked the entire example and thought it was a pretty good description of the difference between appetite, illusions and cd. I'm glad somebody noticed it!

you didn't realize axl is the reason why cd wasnt' the success it should've been

That is your opinion.

I think Axl is the main reason the album is so amazimg.

You have stated your opinion several times. Let's keep the discussion going forward now. Thanks

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groghan -

finck6 is queenie aka kenshin aka vegeta6 aka queeno666. she's been trolling GNR boards for a decade now. she will speak her nonsense over and over and over until people start ignoring her. her opinions are not genuine and people should strongly consider not taking the bait IMO.

Oh, thank you.

What a sad person somebody must be to get enjoyment out of tolling music forums. What purpose does it serve? I shall put her on ignore. Thank you.

Would u mind looking at my you're crazy topic. I suppose u might have the answer.

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So why do you think Illusions appealed to teens and early 20s, but CD didn't? Imo, SOD, Madagascar, Catcher, TWAT sound like classic illusions. Better, IRS, Shacklers....all pretty catchy.

I think Illusions were a greater success because it had better songs, because rock was greater back then (larger market), because Guns N' Roses anno 1991 appealed more to kids than Guns N' Roses anno 2008, because the Illusions were promoted heavily by the band, by label and by media (e.g. MTV), and because the Illusions got more of a fair treatment from critics (many reviews focused on the long and costly production and lack of beloved ex-members).

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Do you guys think the 14 year wait also affected sales? Like, fans got tired at some point and just said fuck this when the album actually came out?

Yes, but My Space posting the whole thing a couple of days before release and keeping it up for more than a week, prob. killed more sales than Cogill's leak did. It would've been fine if it was a week after it came out. They had numbers on pre-sales at the time, but Axl's attitude also seemed to be back to how long AFD took. It's just when the "Better" video was made and not released, and when they should have done a short tour after the release, even if they didn't have a guitarist,could have just gone on Kimmel and Fallon to do an interview and an "unplugged" song, and borrowed a guitarist to do the new stuff. It sounds like Axl was in a bind during the release, or just THAT pissed off from being pushed into releasing it - but that's why I'm surprised he'd even want to deal with a record company again.

I do think you'll see master tape ownership changing soon, where record companies will have them for a shorter duration, and artists own them. There's still money in it, but all artists should have control over master tapes and publishing within the next 20 years. I think in about 5 years, GNR get the master tape rights for AFD. Not sure.

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