One reason CD wasn't the success it should have been

[auad]

It didn't sell as well as planned because it just didn't connect to an audience past the initial curiosity period. Strong debut; then downfall shortly after. Had he not streamed the whole thing prior, and had given more time and effort from his end promoting it, it may have had a stronger debut, but given what we know about the general public's reception, the media, and the hardcores being split in half over the album, I think the end result would've been the same.

People knew about the record. It was promoted pretty well by outside sources. But given the comments you see from musical publications, and the general public outside these forums, it just didn't come off as a good record, or what in essence made Guns N' Roses, Guns N' Roses. And it gave more evidence than not that the name's too heavy for Axl to just carry on his own without any of the people that gave the weight and credit to the name along with him. It seemed too frankensteined together, employees working for the main goal of achieving the head honcho's vision, forced to work together, and somehow make it work, and that kinda came off in the music. It's just too all over the place, unfocused, and drastically different from how people saw the definition of what is Guns N' Roses.

Hat's off to all those that think another nu album (especially IF it's in the same vain as CD) will do well. I personally don't see it happening. But there's no point in going back and forth on that yet again, as there's really only one way to find out...

this.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Let's see, which demographic buys the vast majority of music? Obviously teens and 20-somethings.

And in the history of music, when has it ever been "cool" to embrace music that your parents were into? Never!

To all of you who were in your teens and 20's when GNR burst onto the scene, do you recall ever getting into 60's bands back then? How often in the late 80's and early 90's did you listen to Beatles albums?

Besides liking the music, the reason we got into GNR back in the day is because they were new, young (like us), and represented our generation. So why would we expect today's teens and 20-somethings to embrace music put out by a band that they perceive to be old and passé? They want new bands that they can call their own and follow from the beginning, they don't want to inherit their parents' musical preference.

So it doesn't matter how great an album Chinese Democracy is - and I do think it's incredibly good - there was no chance for it to have big commercial success as a post-Y2K release. If it had been released in the early or mid 90's I think it would be at the very least a Top Ten album.

Edited July 4, 2012 by The Linguini Occurrence

[dalsh327]

Let's see, which demographic buys the vast majority of music? Obviously teens and 20-somethings.

And in the history of music, when has it ever been "cool" to embrace music that your parents were into? Never!

To all of you who were in your teens and 20's when GNR burst onto the scene, do you recall ever getting into 60's bands back then? How often in the late 80's and early 90's did you listen to Beatles albums?

Besides liking the music, the reason we got into GNR back in the day is because they were new, young (like us), and represented our generation. So why would we expect today's teens and 20-somethings to embrace music put out by a band that they perceive to be old and passé? They want new bands that they can call their own and follow from the beginning, they don't want to inherit their parents' musical preference.

Want further evidence? Even with David Lee Roth's return on A Different Kind of Truth, the new Van Halen album never even charted.

So it doesn't matter how great an album Chinese Democracy is - and I do think it's incredibly good - there was no chance for it to have big commercial success as a post-Y2K release. If it had been released in the early or mid 90's I think it would be at the very least a Top Ten album.

When GNR came out, a lot of older bands were reissuing stuff on CD for the first time.

In the entire history of music, embracing your parents music usually happens when you're older. When you're a kid, you're listening to what your friends listen to. It's usually when you're looking for more of a music education that you start playing their stuff.

I don't think music belongs to a specific generation, because the last thing any band wants is to play for a sea of faces their age. It kind of indicates a band that lost its relevance when they don't get new listeners. I've been to enough free oldies shows "in the park" to have seen it, or a 60 year old singer with Berklee and MI grads backing him up.

ADKOT was #2 on Billboard's 200, I thought the promotion was done Lady Gaga style, where she had put 3 or 4 songs out before the full length CD came out, and instead of making the late night rounds, Dave, taking on the interviewer role, got Ed and Alex into storytelling mode about the band and the new songs. It's doubtful if there's going to be new music, but I think they always had a batch of those old demos in mind to record new versions of one day, and I base that on this project the Atomic Punks were going to do, and VH squashed the idea a decade ago. Had VH reunited and put new music out in 98, it would've been an instant classic. The two songs on BOVH were so-so, one's an obvious Hagar outtake (Me Wise Magic). Take the best elements from DLR Band and III, plus one or two of these songs, it would've been guaranteed Platinum. VH missed out by choice.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

ADKOT was #2 on Billboard's 200, I thought the promotion was done Lady Gaga style, where she had put 3 or 4 songs out before the full length CD came out, and instead of making the late night rounds, Dave, taking on the interviewer role, got Ed and Alex into storytelling mode about the band and the new songs. It's doubtful if there's going to be new music, but I think they always had a batch of those old demos in mind to record new versions of one day, and I base that on this project the Atomic Punks were going to do, and VH squashed the idea a decade ago. Had VH reunited and put new music out in 98, it would've been an instant classic. The two songs on BOVH were so-so, one's an obvious Hagar outtake (Me Wise Magic). Take the best elements from DLR Band and III, plus one or two of these songs, it would've been guaranteed Platinum. VH missed out by choice.

I was going to use the new Van Halen album as an example, don't forget Chinese Democracy debuted at #3. There's no doubt in my mind that all the older fans who have been waiting forever for Roth to record again with them bought the album when it first came out, just like GNR fans did when Chinese Democracy came out which is why it debuted at #3. Commercial success happens when an album is released, songs heard on the radio become popular, and there's a lot of positive talk about the album. Then people start buying the album based on the music, not the band's name recognition.

As of right now, A Different Kind of Truth is not in the Top 200 and according to the Billboard website, the album never charted?

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200#/album/van-halen/a-different-kind-of-truth/1591080

Chart History

This Album has never charted.

[Patience 4 Axl]

So... CD didn't do better because people chose not to grow up or because people chose not to listen to it carefully? I disagree. I think it flopped because it's JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Lots of excuses in this thread. Took too long to make, no promotion, streamed on myspace, fans are too young, fans are too old, fans are too stupid, global warming, the Holocaust, the fall of the Roman empire, yada yada, yada. But in the end, this answer seems to make the most sense imo. Spin it as much as you want, however, it seems to me that the simple, unbiased, not looking to justify what happened truth, is that people heard the music and didn't like it.

The classics became classics because people liked the music then, and people still like the music now. It has stood the test of time, unlike CD that for most, beyond this website, has already become a distant memory. That's why those tunes are still played on the radio, why GH is still selling and on the charts, why they appear on numerous end of the year best of all time polls, and why those songs get the most enthusiastic reactions at shows.

[vaida]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

[finck6]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

[Apollo]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

[bran]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

i agree 100%

i think an EP would be the best way to go put out an EP now 3 or 4 songs to hold the fans over until a new album whatever it be new stuff, chinese left overs, a mix of both or whatever happens comes out.

CD still outsold van halens comeback album and the single tattoo which had a video and was everywhere hit #13 on the mainstream rock charts where chinese democracy hit #5 and better #3

[finck6]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

why can't you admit axl is the only reason cd failed? none of your reasons jive with the reason

[bran]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

why can't you admit axl is the only reason cd failed? none of your reasons jive with the reason

maybe he doesnt admit it because he has common sense? :crazy:

[finck6]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

why can't you admit axl is the only reason cd failed? none of your reasons jive with the reason

maybe he doesnt admit it because he has common sense? :crazy:

maybe he doesn't want 2 admit the truth

[bran]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

why can't you admit axl is the only reason cd failed? none of your reasons jive with the reason

maybe he doesnt admit it because he has common sense? :crazy:

maybe he doesn't want 2 admit the truth

maybe you wouldnt know what the truth was even if it bit you on the ass

[TeeJay410]

Axl waited too long. That's it. It went from being mysterious into being an industry punch line. if he put out the album in 99, who knows what could have happened. Besides, the label would have been much more inclined to promote properly back then.

[auad]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

the simple answer is axl didn't promote CD and CD wasn't the success previous guns n roses albums were

Do you gave to keep posting the same thing multiple times?

From all the responses in here, it really does look like GnR had a huge mountain to climb. Numerous reasons why the album shouldn't have worked.

But yet, it did

CD still sold a respectful amount of copies.

IMO, CD is full of great songs.

The touring -albeit too much/long - has been successful for the most part numbers wise. And the majority of people attending shows have given rave reviews.

I really wish that Axl would strike while the band is relevant and start releasing new music. Before more fans get bored, before more band members leave. With a back catalog of supposively "big guns"......with the current group apparently already writing songs and itching to record, I sure hope the next year or two will be looked upon as the productive years. A double album, or an album and an EP, an album and a box set. Team Brazil, if you are reading and really care about Axl, GnR, GnR fans.....new music!!!!!! And not just one album five years from now. It is an absolute shame that the rock world doesn't have more Axl Rose music. In terms of the history of music, it is a tragedy.

you're right man.

[droezle]

CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

axl rose is behind the lack of promotion and chinese democracy videos

and

this i love would have been the next november rain single. robin finck's EPIC TIL solo tops slash solo on the november rain single

Is/was the world ready for a song like This i love because when was the last time a ballad got succesfull on the radio?

[finck6]

Axl waited too long. That's it. It went from being mysterious into being an industry punch line. if he put out the album in 99, who knows what could have happened. Besides, the label would have been much more inclined to promote properly back then.

finally someone else who holds axl accountable. thank you.

[shotgunblues1978]

It sounds like they're hitting the studio after the tour so hopefully this will be the beginning of an era of greater productivity. I think that getting the CD monkey off his back must've been somewhat liberating to Axl, but on the other hand he seems to be very upset with certain aspects of the release. Not just the promotion (or lack thereof) but printing the wrong booklet, etc. Hopefully future releases are not delayed due to political record label BS or disagreements between the band and label

Per Axl and Tommy both there are 22 songs from the "CD era" left, several of which have been mentioned as the best of the entire batch of 32 (Soul Monster by Axl, The General by Brain and Bach, and Seven by Marco Beltrami).

The ideal situation is for those 22 songs to get released for sale to the public in some form by the end of 2012, while the current lineup hits the studio to write and record and new material. There doesn't seem to be anything to prevent that other than label BS and disagreements on marketing, etc.

The reality is that the public and the fanbase wants music. The detractors claim GnR is no longer relevant but the reality is that the next album will likely sell reasonably well in the context of the current industry, and that's all that you can hope for. Releasing several albums in the next 2-3 years would actually reduce the level of scrutiny. Another one of the problems that CD faced is that due to the gestation time and the budget, it was impossible to live up to the expectations, no matter what album they put out. The next record will not have to face that level of expectation and therefore may be given more of a "fair shake" and won't be judged so harshly by certain factions.

There's something to be said for not oversaturating the market and letting each release "breathe" but I think they could get more imaginative with releasing future material. For example they could release what they deem as the best 14 of the 22 remaining songs as a physical, widely released album and release the remaining 8 digitally through the band's website. Just get it out and allow the guys in the current band a fresh start and a chance to create their own album. The old school record industry is dead, and GnR has a nice opportunity to leave it behind and clear out the vault. Nowadays the money is all in touring anyway, so feuding with the label over marketing/promotion seems counterproductive to the end goal, which is artistic satisfaction (achieved by creating new music), money (achieved by touring) and fan satisfaction (achieved by releasing new music and touring). I think there were a lot of behind the scenes politics and nonsense that the general public can't even comprehend as it relates to CD, and hopefully they're able to move on from that shortly

[finck6]

CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

axl rose is behind the lack of promotion and chinese democracy videos

and

this i love would have been the next november rain single. robin finck's EPIC TIL solo tops slash solo on the november rain single

Is/was the world ready for a song like This i love because when was the last time a ballad got succesfull on the radio?

um november rain. TIL was the next November Rain. was until Axl let Robin go back 2 NIN again

[droezle]

CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

axl rose is behind the lack of promotion and chinese democracy videos

and

this i love would have been the next november rain single. robin finck's EPIC TIL solo tops slash solo on the november rain single

Is/was the world ready for a song like This i love because when was the last time a ballad got succesfull on the radio?

um november rain. TIL was the next November Rain. was until Axl let Robin go back 2 NIN again

The difference between those songs is that a lot of fans had heard November Rain years before the release of Use Your Illusion. First time i've heard it was in 1989.

[finck6]

CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

axl rose is behind the lack of promotion and chinese democracy videos

and

this i love would have been the next november rain single. robin finck's EPIC TIL solo tops slash solo on the november rain single

Is/was the world ready for a song like This i love because when was the last time a ballad got succesfull on the radio?

um november rain. TIL was the next November Rain. was until Axl let Robin go back 2 NIN again

The difference between those songs is that a lot of fans had heard November Rain years before the release of Use Your Illusion. First time i've heard it was in 1989.

but i give you the answer. you still try to put me down. that's the difference

[shotgunblues1978]

November Rain would not be a hit in today's music world, as the radio would never regularly play a new song that long on a regular basis, regardless of the artist who released it. Another major factor in November Rain's popularity (the music video) would not have a home, as videos aren't really played on TV anymore; MTV used to be watched for the music videos by millions of people, not the case anymore. Sure, it may get a lot of view on Youtube/Vevo but it's simply not the same. There's a reason that the labels don't invest in big music videos anymore for anyone other than a very select few artists (many of whom end up paying for their own video if they want an "epic" one).

Similarly, This I Love would not have a home on any radio station. It's too soft to get airplay on rock stations, and it's too long and too "rock" (with the near two minute guitar solo) to get airplay on pop stations.

Edited July 4, 2012 by shotgunblues1978

[finck6]

November Rain would not be a hit in today's music world, as the radio would never regularly play a new song that long on a regular basis, regardless of the artist who released it. Another major factor in November Rain's popularity (the music video) would not have a home, as videos aren't really played on TV anymore; MTV used to be watched for the music videos by millions of people, not the case anymore. Sure, it may get a lot of view on Youtube/Vevo but it's simply not the same. There's a reason that the labels don't invest in big music videos anymore for anyone other than a very select few artists (many of whom end up paying for their own video if they want an "epic" one).

Similarly, This I Love would not have a home on any radio station. It's too soft to get airplay on rock stations, and it's too long and too "rock" (with the near two minute guitar solo) to get airplay on pop stations.

the near two minute guitar solo is robin finck. and it's the same as slash solo on november rain. it's not too rock. it's exactly what the people want to hear on radio in the summer of 2012 as a single

[droezle]

CD's commercial failure:

- lacks mainstream hits, except for This I Love which oddly enough never was released as a single...

- Doesn't sound like GNR on most songs

- lack of promotion and videos

axl rose is behind the lack of promotion and chinese democracy videos

and

this i love would have been the next november rain single. robin finck's EPIC TIL solo tops slash solo on the november rain single

Is/was the world ready for a song like This i love because when was the last time a ballad got succesfull on the radio?

um november rain. TIL was the next November Rain. was until Axl let Robin go back 2 NIN again

The difference between those songs is that a lot of fans had heard November Rain years before the release of Use Your Illusion. First time i've heard it was in 1989.

but i give you the answer. you still try to put me down. that's the difference

Euhm? No, i'm not trying to put you down. Imo This i love could never be the next November Rain because it would never have the same succes. This i love was a 1993 song released in 2008.

[TeeJay410]

Axl waited too long. That's it. It went from being mysterious into being an industry punch line. if he put out the album in 99, who knows what could have happened. Besides, the label would have been much more inclined to promote properly back then.

finally someone else who holds axl accountable. thank you.

Well in all honesty, the album not coming out in 99 was not axl's fault, from what I remember the label wasn't thrilled about it. But those demos from 99 were killer especially twat. It wasn't so over done, but buckets solo was needed.