One reason CD wasn't the success it should have been

[vaida]

The simple anwser (CD wasn't the success it should have been) because its not Guns N'Roses, only Axl Rose

Not true.

CD was made by 3 of the 6 guys that made the classic era's last recording.

So how is it "only Axl Rose" if half the band stuck around to make CD?

I havn't studied the CD credits so much. I'm pretty sure Slash, Duff, Izzy, Adler arm't among them.

the final lineup of the classic era was axl, slash, duff, dizzy, matt and paul.

axl, dizzy and paul continued guns n' roses after slash, duff and matt left.

Reveal the contents of the data stick, Mogwai.

[maynard]

yes yes, when proven wrong, bring up the data stick (or wrestling, or my weight)

poor msl... don't worry man, if i posted a video of myself blackmailing a band, people would make fun of me as well, for being so skinny... people on the internet love to hate, you know that. keep on the good work, educating us, not genius people!

[Chris 55]

if i posted a video of myself blackmailing a band,

Huh.

[DownUnderScott]

CD was a success, to me and millions of others who bought it or downloaded it.

Never thought the day would come. It came and it was glorious !

[Majestic Beast]

CD was a success, to me and millions of others who bought it or downloaded it.

Never thought the day would come. It came and it was glorious !

CD was success,but the difference is,was the success we all waited to be? The answer maybe is different for every fan.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

doesn't take a genius to know what the lineup of the band was at different points in the band's history. i would imagine most longtime fans would know?

I think the confusion lies in that most people consider the "classic lineup" to include those who participated in the release of one or all of Lies, AFD and UYI while you are obviously classifying participants in the release of SFTD as "classic lineup" members as well. While neither classification is right or wrong because both are based purely on opinion, I think the vast majority of fans do not consider Paul a "classic lineup" member because he did not participate in the release of Lies, AFD or UYI. Just like the vast majority of fans don't consider Gilby to be a "classic lineup" member based on his one and only release contribution (TSI).

[vaida]

Chinese Democracy is so 2008. That's 8 years later than it should have been. 2013 is not far off. Nearly 5 years and no hit single, no music video. Time for Axl to move on..

..that reminds me: Maybe Axl hopes to hit these levels with CDII

Edited July 7, 2012 by vaida

[wasted]

They just didn't have videos. Which is impressive, all those other sell outs sucking at the teat of the media police state. GNR going Han Solo. No label support, no videos, no promo via main stream media. Every sale of CD was based on the music and live shows.

Edited July 7, 2012 by wasted

[dalsh327]

I think the confusion lies in that most people consider the "classic lineup" to include those who participated in the release of one or all of Lies, AFD and UYI while you are obviously classifying participants in the release of SFTD as "classic lineup" members as well. While neither classification is right or wrong because both are based purely on opinion, I think the vast majority of fans do not consider Paul a "classic lineup" member because he did not participate in the release of Lies, AFD or UYI. Just like the vast majority of fans don't consider Gilby to be a "classic lineup" member based on his one and only release contribution (TSI).

I chose my words very carefully. "CD was made by 3 of the 6 guys that made the classic era's last recording."

I did not claim that Paul was a member of the classic lineup, simply that he played on the classic era's final recording. Most seem to consider the time Slash spent in the band to be the "classic" era, even though the classic lineup was not fully in tact for some of that era's recordings. Even if you don't consider Gilby to be a member of the "classic lineup," he still played with the band during the classic era.

We don't know if Axl ever bounced his lyics & song ideas off of Paul during 86-93. I wonder why it was him and not David Lank.

[vaida]

Nearly 5 years and no hit single

Guns N' Roses had two hit singles less than four years ago.

They did ? - whatever they might have been weren't covered by UK radio stations. Nope, not one bit.

[dalsh327]

They just didn't have videos. Which is impressive, all those other sell outs sucking at the teat of the media police state. GNR going Han Solo. No label support, no videos, no promo via main stream media. Every sale of CD was based on the music and live shows.

I remember there being radio ads and billboards for it, but the question about the video is whether Axl wasn't happy and they spent the entire budget on it, and just decided to shelve it, or it isn't all that good. Should've been up on You Tube long ago, or at least taking footage from live shows and making a video.

To me, music videos are mostly for younger artists who are trying to build an image up. GNR don't need to build an image.

Sometimes the band winds up making their own, or put something out in hopes of going viral. It's not how and where people are getting new music from, hasn't been in years. You have to go seek the videos out now if you want to see them.

[vaida]

They did ? - whatever they might have been weren't covered by UK radio stations. Nope, not one bit.

they had two top 5 rock hits in their home country. in addition, chinese democracy was a big hit in canada, finland, norway, sweden, italy, ireland and greece. better was a big hit in ecuador.

'better was a big hit in ecuador.'

Gotta hand it to Axl

where's the logic in releasing singles without video's ?

..and forget the master plan crap

..or maybe the master plan concluded: The album would appeal to no one except die hards who would buy it no matter what. Videos / No videos. Promotion / No promotion. Hit single / No hit single. Radio air-play / No radio air-play.

Edited July 7, 2012 by vaida

[vaida]

where's the logic in releasing singles without video's ?

..and forget the master plan crap

Videos receive very little airplay in most countries these days. It's not cost effective for most artists to produce the kind of videos GNR used to produce. Perhaps if Axl's choices were cheap videos or no videos, he preferred no videos? Maybe he simply preferred to present the music in a live setting? Who knows. Regardless, the two songs that were sent to radio in the US charted very high (#5 and #3) without any videos or cooperation from the band.

My guess is YouTube counts for the alot of views and exposure. I love playing music and watching videos on YouTube.

YouTube possibly has taken over for many when it comes to MTV / Airplay etc.

Edited July 7, 2012 by vaida

[dalsh327]

where's the logic in releasing singles without video's ?

..and forget the master plan crap

Videos receive very little airplay in most countries these days. It's not cost effective for most artists to produce the kind of videos GNR used to produce. Perhaps if Axl's choices were cheap videos or no videos, he preferred no videos? Maybe he simply preferred to present the music in a live setting? Who knows. Regardless, the two songs that were sent to radio in the US charted very high (#5 and #3) without any videos or cooperation from the band.

When it comes to "Don't Cry", "November Rain", and "Estranged", they put "Making F-ing Videos" out to help cover the cost of the videos, which Michael Jackson had done with "Thriller" and became a huge seller. Madonna had also put "Justify My Love" out on video because it was banned on MTV, so it was a good way for her to make money and cash in on controversy.

MTV never paid royalties out, and now they don't play videos anymore. They were important in the 80s and 90s. Now they're just a 24 hour reality/lifestyle show. Junk food for the masses, and the only music you get is some unknown band playing in the background when some teen drama is going on.

My guess is GNR were without a guitarist and Axl was focused more on that at the time, but do we know if GNR were even going to be in the "Better" video?

GNR, in 2009, should have shot some live footage with the intent to make them the official videos. They could use some of the screen footage and edit it into the live footage. Axl prob. watches the fan footage here and there, but if this was around in 1991, before UYI came out? I guarantee he would've had the lawyers threaten You Tube to keep the (then) new songs off the web, and prob. had a whole rant about the internet back then, not all that different from his "setlist" rant.

It's funny to hear older bands talk about making videos during the heyday of MTV, esp. the ones where they had no budget and had to rely on pure creativity to make a video. Once name directors were involved and bigger budgets were allowed, then it got all sorts of crazy.

Music videos are either for people trying to make a name for themselves, or bands who are into being in front of a camera. GNR used to be, but the band that's GNR today are all about the live show and not into playing rock star in front of a camera.

Tool is a case where they have a band member who is into effects and makes awesome material for the live shows for people to watch, and the band never has to be in the videos, and that was more about keeping Tool's whole essence mysterious and enigmatic. They sell their videos when they come out, and with Adam being the one making the videos, he prob. doesn't get money from the record company to make it. They get used at the shows, so in a way, they've made more money showing them there than they ever would have on MTV. It's not like the guys in Tool are all that mysterious, but 20 years later, the mystique still works for them, and can do it into their 60s because their faces aren't the selling point of the band. The fans support the albums and tours, and whatever doesn't fit in there, Maynard has his other bands/side projects.

Axl's never written songs for other singers. Maybe some of the songs he has in the vault, he'd dole out to someone else to do.

[finck6]

where's the logic in releasing singles without video's ?

..and forget the master plan crap

Videos receive very little airplay in most countries these days. It's not cost effective for most artists to produce the kind of videos GNR used to produce. Perhaps if Axl's choices were cheap videos or no videos, he preferred no videos? Maybe he simply preferred to present the music in a live setting? Who knows. Regardless, the two songs that were sent to radio in the US charted very high (#5 and #3) without any videos or cooperation from the band.

When it comes to "Don't Cry", "November Rain", and "Estranged", they put "Making F-ing Videos" out to help cover the cost of the videos, which Michael Jackson had done with "Thriller" and became a huge seller. Madonna had also put "Justify My Love" out on video because it was banned on MTV, so it was a good way for her to make money and cash in on controversy.

MTV never paid royalties out, and now they don't play videos anymore. They were important in the 80s and 90s. Now they're just a 24 hour reality/lifestyle show. Junk food for the masses, and the only music you get is some unknown band playing in the background when some teen drama is going on.

My guess is GNR were without a guitarist and Axl was focused more on that at the time, but do we know if GNR were even going to be in the "Better" video?

GNR, in 2009, should have shot some live footage with the intent to make them the official videos. They could use some of the screen footage and edit it into the live footage. Axl prob. watches the fan footage here and there, but if this was around in 1991, before UYI came out? I guarantee he would've had the lawyers threaten You Tube to keep the (then) new songs off the web, and prob. had a whole rant about the internet back then, not all that different from his "setlist" rant.

It's funny to hear older bands talk about making videos during the heyday of MTV, esp. the ones where they had no budget and had to rely on pure creativity to make a video. Once name directors were involved and bigger budgets were allowed, then it got all sorts of crazy.

Music videos are either for people trying to make a name for themselves, or bands who are into being in front of a camera. GNR used to be, but the band that's GNR today are all about the live show and not into playing rock star in front of a camera.

Tool is a case where they have a band member who is into effects and makes awesome material for the live shows for people to watch, and the band never has to be in the videos, and that was more about keeping Tool's whole essence mysterious and enigmatic. They sell their videos when they come out, and with Adam being the one making the videos, he prob. doesn't get money from the record company to make it. They get used at the shows, so in a way, they've made more money showing them there than they ever would have on MTV. It's not like the guys in Tool are all that mysterious, but 20 years later, the mystique still works for them, and can do it into their 60s because their faces aren't the selling point of the band. The fans support the albums and tours, and whatever doesn't fit in there, Maynard has his other bands/side projects.

Axl's never written songs for other singers. Maybe some of the songs he has in the vault, he'd dole out to someone else to do.

that's right axl rose spent millions and millions of dollars 2 make the EPIC music videos of don' cry, november rain, and estranged. many thought axl would do the same for chinese democracy videos. featurin' mr. robin finck. certainly MTV would play them and so would FUSE

[scottish nutter]

how many people are going to start a thread about why cd didnt sell that well? theres only 2 reason why the album didnt sell aswell as some thought it would, the biggest reason is no one outside the hardcore fans gives a fuck about gnr and their music these days, and no.2 is that some might think the album was shite so didnt buy it, either way who gives a fuck? aslong as you enjoy the album then that should be enough, fucking hate when people try and talk others into likeing something or give their opinion on why something didnt sell when its means nothing,

on the upside this is still a great post compaired to some of the shite thats in this forum

Edited July 7, 2012 by scottish nutter

[ironmt]

In a sense Scottish Nutter, sales do mean something. What motivation does a band have to release new material If the last album sold poorly and the public shows no Interest In what your selling.

[finck6]

how many people are going to start a thread about why cd didnt sell that well? theres only 2 reason why the album didnt sell aswell as some thought it would, the biggest reason is no one outside the hardcore fans gives a fuck about gnr and their music these days, and no.2 is that some might think the album was shite so didnt buy it, either way who gives a fuck? aslong as you enjoy the album then that should be enough, fucking hate when people try and talk others into likeing something or give their opinion on why something didnt sell when its means nothing,

on the upside this is still a great post compaired to some of the shite thats in this forum

scottish nutter lol the reason cd stank it up in u.s. is cause axl didn't promote the record

[bran]

In a sense Scottish Nutter, sales do mean something. What motivation does a band have to release new material If the last album sold poorly and the public shows no Interest In what your selling.

thats why albums take years to come out, its really not that hard to figure out. bands release albums every 4-8 years sometimes more because it is not financially smart to release an album every year or 2. bands in the 1970,1980s,1990s a band could release an album every 1 or 2 years sell millions of copies, recoup the money from recording the album go on tour and make your money

now when albums sell thousands of copies you are in debt when it comes to recording the album so bands tour to make money,wintersun has been touring europe playing songs off their first album that came out 8 years ago, gnr isnt a rare instance its becoming the norm

[finck6]

chinese democracy 2 takes years 2 come out