Why a pianist/keyboardist was needed in (Old) GN'R

[Vincent Vega]

I've always loved Dizzy as a member of GN'R and I love his contributions to the UYI albums, and I actually think he (or a pianist/keyboardist in general) was needed in GN'R, for several reasons:

1) While Axl can play the piano, he mostly plays epic, sort of ponderous pieces with the piano. Stuff like NR, Estranged, Breakdown--Not very "fun" stuff. I'm not saying he can't play that kind of stuff, but it's obviously not something he's really done often or is really into. Dizzy on the other hand has a very classic rock, honky tonk feel--Very much in the vein of a Billy Preston or Nicky Hopkins or Ian Stewart--the same sort of blues inspired honky tonk piano which has always fit alongside Rock N' Roll. For example his subtle little work on Bad Obsession and Pretty Tied Up help give the songs that bluesy, '70s Stones vibe.

2) Axl himself admitted that Dizzy added keyboard parts to songs on the UYI albums that no one even considered putting it on--He contributed without being officially credited to the UYI albums. Axl in those days didn't seem all THAT savvy with keyboards--he was good with synthesizers, yes, but keyboards it seems weren't his thing--And Dizzy's keyboard work on the songs he's on, parts which he probably wrote himself, is subtle yet adds another dimension to the UYI songs. While his Honky Tonk piano grounds other songs firmly in classic rock territory, his keyboard work on other songs moves the band forward into a heavier, more progressive rock direction. I can't imagine songs like Dust N' Bones or Don't Damn Me or Perfect Crime without the organ parts--it gives it a modern sort of heavy rock feel.

3) That amazing outro of Locomotive wouldn't be the same at all, IMHO, without the piano playing with and weaving with the guitars and bass and Axl's vocals--It all blends together to create an amazingly beautiful "jam."

4) His parts on Civil War--especially during the verses--add IMO even more depth to the song, texture it and fill it out. I've heard the demo of CW without piano and it just feels like it's missing something. People say "raw is good"--Yes, it certainly is--but sometimes raw isn't necessary. Some songs need a little extra. CW, the demo, seemed TOO bare bones, the piano helps add flesh to it.

5) His work live allowed Axl to move freely during songs such as Estranged and Breakdown which had core piano parts. On other songs--on the AFD songs live--I believe his piano and keyboard parts (such as on Think About You and Rocket Queen) actually serve to make those songs better.

6) His playing on Sympathy gives it a gothic feel which totally fits the song and adds strongly to it, especially in the intro.

I've just never understood the level of hate the guy gets from people. Slash, Duff and Gilby all had him on at least one record of theirs. Some of the most ROCK N' ROLL bands and musicians of all time have used piano and keyboards in their music--Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Chuck Berry, The Doors, Elvis, Slash in Snakepit and his solo work--and it never detracted from them being "Rock N' Roll." Keyboards and piano have helped spice up the sound of many other bands too, like Billy Preston's work with The Beatles--To the extent that he's called the Fifth Beatle and almost became it literally. At it's outset, piano and rock went hand in hand, and that continued with the bands and acts I mentioned, and many more. It's not like piano, keyboards and synthesizers were limited to 80s bands...It doesn't make GN'R stereotypical or degrade the band.

I've also never seen the problem with there being keyboards or piano in GN'R. I don't see how it downgrades the sound at all--I think it compliments the sound and doesn't clutter it--What clutters the sound on the UYIs is the mixing; I don't think six members is too many; I actually think the only cheesy synth/keyboard moment in Old GN'R's history is Axl's synth work on Paradise City--that was unneeded and makes the song sound even more 80s than it already does.

I just think the guy should be given the same treatment Matt Sorum gets. At least Dizzy came up with the parts he played on the UYIs; According to Axl, Slash and Duff, Matt played basically stuff that the band had already written for him.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[WillieC]

Where's the Michael Monroe mention? Is he GN'R too?

[bran]

I've always loved Dizzy as a member of GN'R and I love his contributions to the UYI albums, and I actually think he (or a pianist/keyboardist in general) was needed in GN'R, for several reasons:

1) While Axl can play the piano, he mostly plays epic, sort of ponderous pieces with the piano. Stuff like NR, Estranged, Breakdown--Not very "fun" stuff. I'm not saying he can't play that kind of stuff, but it's obviously not something he's really done often or is really into. Dizzy on the other hand has a very classic rock, honky tonk feel--Very much in the vein of a Billy Preston or Nicky Hopkins or Ian Stewart--the same sort of blues inspired honky tonk piano which has always fit alongside Rock N' Roll. For example his subtle little work on Bad Obsession and Pretty Tied Up help give the songs that bluesy, '70s Stones vibe.

2) Axl himself admitted that Dizzy added keyboard parts to songs on the UYI albums that no one even considered putting it on--He contributed without being officially credited to the UYI albums. Axl in those days didn't seem all THAT savvy with keyboards--he was good with synthesizers, yes, but keyboards it seems weren't his thing--And Dizzy's keyboard work on the songs he's on, parts which he probably wrote himself, is subtle yet adds another dimension to the UYI songs. While his Honky Tonk piano grounds other songs firmly in classic rock territory, his keyboard work on other songs moves the band forward into a heavier, more progressive rock direction. I can't imagine songs like Dust N' Bones or Don't Damn Me or Perfect Crime without the organ parts--it gives it a modern sort of heavy rock feel.

3) That amazing outro of Locomotive wouldn't be the same at all, IMHO, without the piano playing with and weaving with the guitars and bass and Axl's vocals--It all blends together to create an amazingly beautiful "jam."

4) His parts on Civil War--especially during the verses--add IMO even more depth to the song, texture it and fill it out. I've heard the demo of CW without piano and it just feels like it's missing something. People say "raw is good"--Yes, it certainly is--but sometimes raw isn't necessary. Some songs need a little extra. CW, the demo, seemed TOO bare bones, the piano helps add flesh to it.

5) His work live allowed Axl to move freely during songs such as Estranged and Breakdown which had core piano parts. On other songs--on the AFD songs live--I believe his piano and keyboard parts (such as on Think About You and Rocket Queen) actually serve to make those songs better.

6) His playing on Sympathy gives it a gothic feel which totally fits the song and adds strongly to it, especially in the intro.

I've just never understood the level of hate the guy gets from people. Slash, Duff and Gilby all had him on at least one record of theirs. Some of the most ROCK N' ROLL bands and musicians of all time have used piano and keyboards in their music--Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Chuck Berry, The Doors, Elvis, Slash in Snakepit and his solo work--and it never detracted from them being "Rock N' Roll." Keyboards and piano have helped spice up the sound of many other bands too, like Billy Preston's work with The Beatles--To the extent that he's called the Fifth Beatle and almost became it literally. At it's outset, piano and rock went hand in hand, and that continued with the bands and acts I mentioned, and many more. It's not like piano, keyboards and synthesizers were limited to 80s bands...It doesn't make GN'R stereotypical or degrade the band.

I've also never seen the problem with there being keyboards or piano in GN'R. I don't see how it downgrades the sound at all--I think it compliments the sound and doesn't clutter it--What clutters the sound on the UYIs is the mixing; I don't think six members is too many; I actually think the only cheesy synth/keyboard moment in Old GN'R's history is Axl's synth work on Paradise City--that was unneeded and makes the song sound even more 80s than it already does.

I just think the guy should be given the same treatment Matt Sorum gets. At least Dizzy came up with the parts he played on the UYIs; According to Axl, Slash and Duff, Matt played basically stuff that the band had already written for him.

i agree, great post

[GnR Chris]

I wouldn't describe "Estranged" and "November Rain" as dull. Are you kidding me?

But I disagree they needed a keyboard player. "Civil War" was ruined with the piano. Check out a youtube acoustic version with Slash and Myles. It's much better than the piano at the end.

It isn't that I dislike Dizzy. He's just superfluous. He had and has little to do with the Gn'R legacy. I see there's another thread going right now wondering if Gn'R has held Dizzy back. lol

[Flayer]

I wouldn't describe "Estranged" and "November Rain" as dull. Are you kidding me?

Yet you're the only one who did. Nowhere did he say they were "dull," he said the piano parts in them were not "fun" ones - and he's right, it's heavy, emotional stuff, a pretty clear contrast to stuff like Pretty Tied Up. Dizzy is not superfluous when he's freeing Axl from piano duties on stage, and apparently he's added quite a bit more than I realized on the albums. And if you believe Civil War in its finished state is a "ruined" song, then your evaluation of music isn't very convincing to me.

[saber_]

If Dizzy had quit the band long ago, there would be a whole contingent of Dizzy worshippers who would never accept his replacement.

Who else would you want to play the keys for paradise city? (i mean, aside from the other keyboardist dude Pitman lol). Dizzy was there man. He's got street cred. He was there for the wild surreal rock n roll gnr trip in the early 90s.

Nothin wrong with addin keyboards. I would've liked to hear some hammond organ shit from GnR though.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Popcorn's Snare

[Jakey Styley]

Where is Dizzy on Perfect Crime?

[bacardimayne]

Dizzy isn't in Perfect Crime.

Edited July 7, 2012 by bacardimayne

[Randy Lahey]

Axl could have hired a touring keyboardist like Pearl Jam and Oasis do.

[shotgunblues1978]

The problem is that you have a bunch of 80s metal heads and buttrockers that don't believer or understand that piano and keyboards are and almost always have been an integral part of rock music

Certain factions within the GnR fanbase cling to this asinine idea that Axl shouldn't have been allowed to incorporate more of his biggest musical influences (Queen, Elton John, Pink Floyd) that were not as present on AFD, simply because they were not present on AFD. In additions there are a number of items on UYI that were clearly nods to some of the band's major influences like the Stones (the jangly, honky tonk style piano and the choir on KOHD) and Skynyrd (also the choir on KOHD).

The reality is that all bands, to some degree, incorporate their musical influences and favorite bands' sounds into their music. Just because GnR incorporated a wider range of their influences into UYI than they did in AFD, there's some backlash from the buttrockers and simpletons who believe that rock n' roll begins and ends with a drum track, a bass track, a couple of guitar tracks and a vocal track.

[Towelie]

That amazing outro of Locomotive wouldn't be the same at all, IMHO, without the piano playing with and weaving with the guitars and bass and Axl's vocals--It all blends together to create an amazingly beautiful "jam."

Is that Axl or Dizzy playing on the outro of Locomotive?

[shotgunblues1978]

That amazing outro of Locomotive wouldn't be the same at all, IMHO, without the piano playing with and weaving with the guitars and bass and Axl's vocals--It all blends together to create an amazingly beautiful "jam."

Is that Axl or Dizzy playing on the outro of Locomotive?

Dizzy

[rainman_1985]

Piano was the first rock n roll instrument.

Personally I think Dizzy's keys detract on certain songs and on others it makes them 10 times better.

Edited July 7, 2012 by rainman_1985

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

UYI would've been a bit boring without the added instruments.

[DizzyReedsexmachine]

Dust N Bones ?

Dizzy is a Rock God ,Miser

[Vincent Vega]

Like I said--all Dizzy's work fits where it should. The only time a keyboard or synth part in Old GN'R was the synth part Axl did in PC--And that's not because it's synth per se, it just sounds so cheap, so 80s. He didn't quite know what he was doing with it yet, I suppose, but it does date PC even more than it is already.

[GnR Chris]

I wouldn't describe "Estranged" and "November Rain" as dull. Are you kidding me?

Yet you're the only one who did. Nowhere did he say they were "dull," he said the piano parts in them were not "fun" ones - and he's right, it's heavy, emotional stuff, a pretty clear contrast to stuff like Pretty Tied Up. Dizzy is not superfluous when he's freeing Axl from piano duties on stage, and apparently he's added quite a bit more than I realized on the albums. And if you believe Civil War in its finished state is a "ruined" song, then your evaluation of music isn't very convincing to me.

Well, he said "ponderous."

I like the studio "Civil War." The piano was unnecessary. That's the worst part of the song.

Edit: For the record, I'm a HUGE fan of piano in general. That doesn't mean I still don't think Dizzy is a superfluous member. Meaning anyone can jump in and do what he has done or did. Any hired hand, a touring hand, paid sessionist, whoever.

Edited July 7, 2012 by GnR Chris

[DirtyDeeds]

Like I said--all Dizzy's work fits where it should. The only time a keyboard or synth part in Old GN'R was the synth part Axl did in PC--And that's not because it's synth per se, it just sounds so cheap, so 80s. He didn't quite know what he was doing with it yet, I suppose, but it does date PC even more than it is already.

I think the synth in Paradise City makes it sound a lot better.

[TeeJay410]

I don't have a real issue with dizzy musically. I don't think he was all that necessary, most guns songs outside of the epics could have done without piano in my opinion, but generally I just don't like how dizzy comes off in interviews. There's a difference between how Tommy just takes his paycheck and keeps chugging along year after year while gritting his teeth and barking at Axl every now and again and how dizzy sort of kisses ass. Dizzy seems pretty shameless in how he will blindly be on Axl's side.

Also live, the bongos annoy the shit out of me.

[Guest Satanisk_Slakt]

Axl could have hired a touring keyboardist like Pearl Jam and Oasis do.

Agreed.

[TeeJay410]

Axl could have hired a touring keyboardist like Pearl Jam and Oasis do.

Agreed.

That's what I feel Chris pitman is, though he's allowed in the room while they write and record. Dizzy seems to be being rewarded for loyalty over anything.

[Vincent Vega]

I prefer the Stonesy approach Axl took with having two keyboardists live and on record. It certainly aided the Stones' sound at their peak in the 70s, IMO. And I don't mind that Dizzy is an official member or was made one. He was hired on merit at the outset. Ian Stewart was an official member of the Stones except that their manager felt his image didn't fit the Stones, but he was basically an unofficial-official member for the rest of his life. All he was was a piano player and yet Keith to his day praises Ian. And then they had Nicky Hopkins as the hired piano and keyboard guy along with Billy Preston and it just gave their records more texture.

[izzygirl]

It wasn't needed. At all. When they became "pretentious" is when they thought a keybord/piano would be a great idea...and that was the beginning of the end.

[Jakey Styley]

I prefer the Stonesy approach Axl took with having two keyboardists live and on record. It certainly aided the Stones' sound at their peak in the 70s, IMO. And I don't mind that Dizzy is an official member or was made one. He was hired on merit at the outset. Ian Stewart was an official member of the Stones except that their manager felt his image didn't fit the Stones, but he was basically an unofficial-official member for the rest of his life. All he was was a piano player and yet Keith to his day praises Ian. And then they had Nicky Hopkins as the hired piano and keyboard guy along with Billy Preston and it just gave their records more texture.

Where is Dizzy on Perfect Crime?

[Vincent Vega]

I prefer the Stonesy approach Axl took with having two keyboardists live and on record. It certainly aided the Stones' sound at their peak in the 70s, IMO. And I don't mind that Dizzy is an official member or was made one. He was hired on merit at the outset. Ian Stewart was an official member of the Stones except that their manager felt his image didn't fit the Stones, but he was basically an unofficial-official member for the rest of his life. All he was was a piano player and yet Keith to his day praises Ian. And then they had Nicky Hopkins as the hired piano and keyboard guy along with Billy Preston and it just gave their records more texture.

Where is Dizzy on Perfect Crime?

I haven't had a UYI booklet in years, so I went to GNRevolution, which is usually a great resource and it had him listed as being on piano on Perfect Crime.

Performers:

Axl Rose: Vocals, Sound Effects

Slash: Lead Guitar, Rhythm Guitar

Izzy Stradlin: Rhythm Guitar

Duff McKagan: Bass Guitar

Matt Sorum: Drums

Dizzy Reed: Piano

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=48841#p48841