What made Punk a lifestyle?

[Vincent Vega]

I've at times heard people say that Punk (REAL Punk of the 70s/early-mid 80s, not the Pop Punk shit) was more than a musical style, it was a lifestyle and a total reinvention of rock music in some ways...How so? How was it a lifestyle more than any other rock subgenre counter culture is?

[Chinaski]

Not that I was around or can consider myself well-versed in the era compared to some, but I imagine at the genesis of it, in London at least, it wasn't so much a lifestyle you bought into as much as a lifestyle you already had that made people feel less isolated in some pretty shitty circumstances and the anger and disillusionment they felt (and also in a way the sense of fun and expression they still possessed regardless). Hence the joy of the anyone can do it ethos. Like that magazine with three chords on the front that went 'now go start a band'. Someone here will know what I mean it's crazy famous.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Chinaski

[Guest Len B'stard]

I wanna hear what Zint has to say..

[bran]

punk life style wasnt really any different than any other musical following of any other genre of music hippies had their movement and their lifestyle, metal has their movement and lifestyle and punk has theirs

[The Sandman]

Len, I give you the floor

[Guest Len B'stard]

Len, I give you the floor

I'd like everybody to give a big round of applause to your friend and mine, Sandy, give it up Ladies and Gentleman. Ahhh, you're a great crowd. Take my wife, please, take my wife! I take my wife everywhere but she finds her way home..the other night my wife sez ta me, she sez i wanna go somewhere i never been for our anniversary and i sez to her, i sez try the kitchen. You're a beautiful audience, thank you, thank you!

[zazumusic]

If you are intrested in Punks you can find more information on my site. Also you can book a live band

[Guest Len B'stard]

If you are intrested in Punks

I ain't sayin nothin!

[Zint]

If you are intrested in Punks

I ain't sayin nothin!

Oh go on...you know you wanna!

[Guest Len B'stard]

I really wanted to hear what you had to say about this actually. I know a 5000 page Len babble is usually found round these sortsa parts but i don't think lil' ol' born in 83 me has a right to or is qualified to answer...but you are

[Johnny Drama]

I really wanted to hear what you had to say about this actually. I know a 5000 page Len babble is usually found round these sortsa parts but i don't think lil' ol' born in 83 me has a right to or is qualified to answer...but you are

Yeah but i'm gonna feel like somethings otta balance of you don't spill here.

[wasted]

Punk didn't exist.

[Zint]

I really wanted to hear what you had to say about this actually. I know a 5000 page Len babble is usually found round these sortsa parts but i don't think lil' ol' born in 83 me has a right to or is qualified to answer...but you are

Yeah but i'm gonna feel like somethings otta balance of you don't spill here.

I think both len and I have spilled on this like 5 times over in the past years.

But for the sake of a new thread,we can go another round.

I was going to post last night,but was dead tired..it's been a long week,I dredged up enough energy to speak on the Batman shooting today.I'll try to get to this one on the weekend.

Len...if you wanna go first!

[Guest Len B'stard]

Um, punks a lifestyle because...it kinda demanded that of you i guess. It spoke directly to people. VERY directly. Y'know, this ain't listenin' to Ready Teddy by Little Richard and going, yeah, i can get with that, i get that, he could be speaking about me, i go to, i dunno, sock hop balls i know that feeling, this is a bit of me, it weren't even that subtle with punk, it was a case of:

So don't complain' about your useless employment

Jack it in, forever tonight or shut your mouth

And pretend you enjoy it, think of all the money you got

Right and thats off the first song of the first Clash album (U.S. version anyway). The entire thing as an ethos was about direct action and about presenting the people with something relevant to them that spoke to them, directly, with reference to what was happening at that moment and with a frequency that kept it all fresh y'know? No point doing Nam protest songs when Nams over, no?

Also, punk was REALLY severe for it's time, it was one of those things that would get you outcast in society, seriously fucking outcast, it's difficult to explain to kids today why a dyed green barnet might get you slung out of the house but it fucking will. In a sense, punks never really had a choice, it was sort of thrust upon them as a lifestyle as much as anything, even if it was willfully taken up because....look, boy with a green barnet, 1978, think about the functional day to day human things you gotta do to get by. Now imagine the boy with the green barnet in 1978 doing the same thing. Imagine going in a shop and being immediately pegged for a thieving bastard on sight, imagine doing down the job centre, imagine try to go rent an apartment or a flat or whatever, it was kinda circumstance as much as anything else, another reason why punk is so fucking important cuz...y'know, thats effecting society, changing the fuckin' world and it came about by virtue of a lot of people that had to sacrifice like, a lot of things y'know like relationships or the respect of their family cuz people didn't understand this shit and look at it now, you got football players with mohicans, newscasters with spikey barnets, punk made that possible, thats what you call breaking down barriers.

And also, punk came about in a way that made it so it was more relevant than anything that came before it because everything became like, localised so...y'know, it wasn't like, oooh, The British Invasion and all these kids from America kinda go oooooh and aaaahhhh, or a bunch of old black blues blokes and a bunch of kids from London go, y'know, whats all that about...by virtue of what it ALLOWED YOU TO BE (key phrase, this weren't a fucking rule) i.e. simple and direct it made it so everybody could pick it up so it was remote from no one, y'know? Each little area has their scene and each one is as relevant to the people of that local area and thats enlivening, thats exciting, who needs the fucking Sex Pistols all the way over in London when MY GOD, have you people any idea what was coming out of fucking DC back then?!?! or California or...and it wasn't even as broad as that, i mean there was like Bay Area Punk and the Hollywood scene and...y'know, this permeated like an entire fuckin country to the point where you have this international (literally) network of bands all part of this thing and all setting shit up and, y'know they created an alternative EVERYTHING, an alternative media through fanzines, an alternative network of places to play cuz the normal dives wouldn't fuckin' have you...and some of these places were like waaaay out in the sticks too, places that rock n roll only breezed past.

And then when you got your localised shit your localised bands spoke about like, what was going on in your area, in your town or in your town hall, which then politicised a great many people on a localised level and people really went all in to effect change and i don't just mean your well publicised civil disobedients like Jello Biafra or what have you, i'm talking about on a local level and it weren't all happy smiley either, some of these guys went seriously fucking militant, whether thats a good or a bad thing i guess is up to you. But point being it made you feel like you could affect change, it still does to me, it wasn't like a thing where, you know, local politics is some dorky fuckin' thing, punk was proving in a way that it wasn't, punk proved the people on the pavement can change things and they did and it weren't about fuckin' hippies and cubaya and happy clappy bullshit, it was more like...i dunno, to me people like Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, THATS fuckin punk before punk, The Stooges and The MC5 and The White Panther Party, thats kinda punk before punk...and not in some bullshit hippie spiritualist sense i'm talking there's a line from those people to the people that were around punks inception.

So basically, you got your own concentrated localised and very vibrant scenes, your own circuit of venues, your own look, your own values, your own political outlook (which although is kinda popularly narrowed down to like, left wing socialist stuff in books etc but a lot of it was very right wing too despite what some might have you believe and a great many couldn't give a two shits about the political bollocks as well so, y'know, there was a touch of a lot going on).

And in the early days of like, forging all these alternative circuits and onwards, all these scenes were inter-connected so...y'know, i dunno, Bad Brains on your might go sleep round such and such persons up in Seattle whoose a part of their scene up there or some guy from Seattle might sleep round such and such person whoose a part of the scene in their fuckin neighbourhood so you had these bands that, y'know, barely had fuckin' petrol money to get to the next venue but thats kinda all they needed cuz when they got there you stay around someones whoose a part of their scene and everybody kinda looked after each other like that so, y'know, thats how it's a lifestyle, it's like a entire cross section of society that learned to be self reliant in doing their thing cuz noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucker was about to give them any money to do their fuckin' thing.

And thats kinda how things become a lifestyle, when you do things different but manage to become self sufficient while doing it, thats kind of the definition of an alternative lifestyle.

Punk, to me, was when the people started to represent themselves. Literally the people, working class kids kinda stood up and went "actually, no, it's like this!". I mean western society in the mid to late 70s was a very different place to what the world is now and, y'know, a lot of barriers were yet to be broken (many many many still are too, punk has a message for you too, Rudy ) and punk kinda did that. Like God Save the Queen for example, it's ridiculous to suggest that EVERY SINGLE person in English society loved and adored the Queen...but these people were simply not represented, dissenting opinion was literally not given a voice, society closed in on you for expressing that sort of sentiment publicly, when privately every fucker does/did it.

And also, cuz there was no rules to this fuckin' thing it became a case where anybody playing music however they fuckin' want as long as it's good and it has passion, you're fuckin' invited, it gives it a much much broader scope, its a lot more inclusive which kind of assists in making it a lifestyle because it's open to pretty much anybody who has something to say.

And it didn't cost a lot, it weren't like being a mod, it weren't like, y'know, expensive fuckin' clothes and a Vespa, you didn't have to be kitted out in your sunday best, you didn't particularly have to be kitted out in anything.

Also, it wasn't limited to music, this is why Punk is more a lifestyle and a culture, you don't just have punk musicians, you had punk filmmakers like Don Letts, punk artists like Jamie Reid, punk poets like John Cooper Clarke, it was a HUGE broad thing, if you weren't doing that you might be, i dunno, fixing up the fucking venues or producing a fanzine, it lead people from punk into the arts, into journalism, into cinema, into all sorts of things, it wasn't limited to music. Mary Harron that directed American Psycho, she got her start working with fuckin' John Holstrom and Legs McNeil, Don Letts went on to direct Jamaican movies like Dancehall Queen etc etc, the people effected and influenced by punk and the reaches of where those people ended up in our society is really quite astounding, this was a huge concern.

The notion that the establishment have control over the media is fucking ridiculous and it shouldn't be that way because it's someone presenting you with a reflection of yourself that has no fucking idea who you are or what you are or what you think about and quite frankly, they don't fucking care. English media was reflecting the working classes back at themselves through television as the people who are gonna line the streets at this big open jubilee for Her Travesty Queen Liz the Worst and all of England was gonna come together and hold hands and have a giant booze up like it was VE Day or something...when this was simply NOT the reality of life in England in the 70s, a realistic reflection of life in England in the 70s was strikes, miners strikes, gravediggers strikes, dustmans strikes, 3 days weeks, two up two down and an outside toilet and a tin bath, it was about public baths, it was about working in factories til you were 65 for a gold watch and a retirement party down the local pub, it was about mass unemployment, these things are why the media should not be establishment controlled because they ain't gonna reflect that back at ya, that'd be like going "well, Good Morning England, come have a look at how much we've fucked up today!"...punk was the antedote to that, thats why so many people go Anarchy in the UK upon hearing it, it immediately made sense to them cuz it was an accurate reflection of the world around them. Fuck me, i can listen to The Clash's first album and it is relevant to me today just like it's relevant to kids in the 70s then, Londons Burning, Career Oppertunities, Complete Control, Police and Thieves (it's a cover, i know), Clash City Rocker, these songs speak directly to me and they're telling me something that to this day is relevant to my life and yours...cuz it's about honesty and integrity.

That encapsulates punk to me, honesty and integrity, being a true and accurate reflection of your emotions and your intentions and your beliefs and your feelings...with no quarter given. That and question. Question everything always all the time without fail and i don't mean just authority (i mean especially fucking authority) but also like y'know, the standard way things are done, like OK, a guitar is played like this...but what if i turn that upside down, what if i don't do it like that, what if i do it like THIS.

I can't honestly say i'm a part of punk or was a part of punk or a part of a scene, it's why i was kinda reticent to answer right off cuz i can't tell you nothing you can't learn off of some fuckin' book or documentary somewhere (that and a lot of pestering of certain folk ) but i guess i can tell you what i took from the thing personally and the paragraph before this one kind of encapsulates that.

Punk changed peoples lives, punk made people walk away from faiths, punk made people into vegans, vegetarians, certain cross-sections of punk demanded a lifestyle change, like straight edgers and all of them.

But overall, why is punk a lifestyle? I guess cuz it was about a lot more than music.

(y'know, for all that fuckin' typing i ain't satisfied with it as an answer )

Edited July 21, 2012 by sugaraylen

[dalsh327]

I've at times heard people say that Punk (REAL Punk of the 70s/early-mid 80s, not the Pop Punk shit) was more than a musical style, it was a lifestyle and a total reinvention of rock music in some ways...How so? How was it a lifestyle more than any other rock subgenre counter culture is?

The lifestyle part was prob. because you had musicians and non musicians supporting it, when it comes to the Pistols, it was formed in a boutique. The reinvention of rock music was kids not having to know how to play well, but where the delivery and what you said became more important. Not saying music wasn't important, but if you were a sloppy player, it wouldn't matter as much. Some musicians I'm sure "dumbed down" just to get punk rock gigs. Hardcore punk in California was a whole other animal, and that's a history that ties into skate and surf culture, people skateboarding in empty swimming pools. I think Marc wrote about them hanging at a hot dog stand, being a scary bunch. The punk rock coming out of England was more political, and I think Dead Kennedys are the only band that continued that aspect of it. Jello ran for mayor at the time.

There's a lot of merging, splitting, redefining when it comes to metal and punk in the 70s and 80s. To me, GG Allin was the end of punk and what it stands for, but he also did stuff that was more Jackass than music related.

Edited July 21, 2012 by dalsh327

[wasted]

punk was based off middle class kids jumping on the bandwagon of the pistols. and the media using for hype. i think in terms off fashion it had more impact.

[Guest Len B'stard]

when it comes to the Pistols, it was formed in a boutique.

I don't mean to be Dorko the Punklopedia but Cookie and Jones formed the original incarnation of the band with their mate Wally Nightingale and THEN managed to convince Malcolm McLaren, the owner of a boutique to manage them so this notion that they were formed in a boutique is a falsehood. An early name for the band was The Strand, followed by Kutie Jones and his Sex Pistols (with Jonesey as the lead singer, this name was possibly Malcolms idea although it's not really confirmed).

But point being they were formed long before any link to Malcolms shop.

Edited July 21, 2012 by sugaraylen

[dalsh327]

when it comes to the Pistols, it was formed in a boutique.

I don't mean to be Dorko the Punklopedia but Cookie and Jones formed the original incarnation of the band with their mate Wally Nightingale and THEN managed to convince Malcolm McLaren, the owner of a boutique to manage them so this notion that they were formed in a boutique is a falsehood. An early name for the band was The Strand, followed by Kutie Jones and his Sex Pistols (with Jonesey as the lead singer, this name was possibly Malcolms idea although it's not really confirmed).

But point being they were formed long before any link to Malcolms shop.

It's fine, I learn something new from it, or prob. didn't pay any attention to it b/c it was downplayed.

Kind of sucks the band excluded Nightingale out of "Did You No Wrong" though. Maybe at the time, they didn't think about it or care, but over time, when the big lawsuit happened, Steve and Paul should've said something.