Could Steven have handled the UYI material?

[Vincent Vega]

Both Marc Canter and Alan Niven have said that besides the obvious and most pertinent issue of Steven being unable to fulfill his role in the band due to his drug use, there were some concerns in the band that he wouldn't be able to handle the different style of the UYI material, which was a minor factor itself in his firing--That the material was sort of beyond his abilities. Basically, because the material just by the very nature of it was so different and less groovy than AFD, there was some concern that Steven might not be able to keep time, to keep up with it; that the new material called for a more technically skilled and heavier hitting drummer, for example a song like Locomotive--it's a very complicated, mechanical sort of piece even in just the way it's written, or even songs like Garden of Eden and the like which are not regular hard rock songs, but border on heavy metal. Do you think Steven would've been able to handle some of the more complex and newer UYI material?

Niven reveals that in addition to his substance abuse problems he was also having problems playing the band’s new tracks leaving them with no option but to show him the door.

Niven explained:

“I agreed with the final exasperated decision (to fire Adler), with reluctance, because once you change the structure of the molecule that is the band it can become volatile and unstable.

“And, from an emotional point of view, you don’t want to lose anyone along the way but we had tried all we could to help Steven win his battle with smack, but only he could win his war.

“We tried to get him into the material but he just could not connect with Axl’s longer piano based compositions.

“There were constant complaints that Steven would not play the pieces consistently and it annoys me even today that Steven plays victim as he was given every chance over a long period of time.

“What is more he had been paid composer royalties he did not earn as a courtesy – no one fucked him over but himself.”

and from a different interview with Niven:

Losing Steven was frustrating and painful. But we tried and tried to pull him through. The problem was, he just could not connect to the more intricate material Axl was writing for the Illusion albums. Time and again, Slash and the others would bemoan that he just couldn't get it, and that he would play the same section the same way twice instead of fixing it.

The bullshit that he was fired for his addiction is just that – bullshit. It was a performance matter. There were other issues between Steven and Axl that certainly didn't help, and may have been sufficient within themselves to see him go. I will say the band never quite felt the same after Steven Adler was gone. He may not be the best drummer in the world, but he had a great exuberance to his playing when he was “on.”

Edited July 23, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Crash Diet]

Yes

Haven't you heard the Mates rehearsal?

[Vincent Vega]

Yes

Haven't you heard the Mates rehearsal?

Yeah, his timing is off there and his light drumming style doesn't really fit the heavier sounding music being played. It kinda dates the material as well. AFD is a fast, Punk inspred, groove based hard rock album. The UYIs border close on metal in some areas, have a generally heavier sound and the material is much more Slash oriented (meaning harder, heavier in terms of guitars), bluesier and less Punk inspired--less of a groove. It's like having Charlie Watts replace John Bonham in Led Zeppelin. Both great drummers, but great in very different ways and both fit different styles of music.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Crash Diet]

Yes

Haven't you heard the Mates rehearsal?

Yeah, his timing is off there and his light drumming style doesn't really fit the heavier sounding music being played. It kinda dates the material as well. AFD is a fast, Punk inspred, groove based hard rock album. The UYIs border close on metal in some areas, have a generally heavier sound and the material is much more Slash oriented (meaning harder, heavier in terms of guitars), bluesier and less Punk inspired--less of a groove. It's like having Charlie Watts replace John Bonham in Led Zeppelin. Both great drummers, but great in very different ways and both fit different styles of music.

Steven originally used double bass drums, when he met with Slash in their childhood, just sayin'...

I think he could easily capable drumming in a more "metal", heavier way.

bluesier and less Punk inspired--less of a groove

This is your preconception. A Lot of songs written back in the (pre) AFD days

Bluesier? Not really...

Less punk inspired? umm: Perfect crime, RNDTH, Shotgun Blues, TSI songs etc...

The real problem is not his drumming skills, the problem is he was a drug addict

/thread

Edited July 23, 2012 by Crash Diet

[TheNightrain]

His Drumming sounded pretty good to me. Everything would have panned out so much different if Steven could have gotten himself on track..

[dalsh327]

If Adler had a work hard/party hard ethic, he would've been on UYI. He's a great natural drummer who's sound was as much a part of GNR as anyone else at the time, and would've done a great job on it. But think about it, they spent years trying to make it big, and all of a sudden, a windfall of money landed in his lap. Not everyone is going to think 'stocks and bonds', investing it, and keep in mind Axl was keeping his money in his sock.

Now there's a lot more awareness about how short lived fame can be, but after 3-4 years of toiling away night after night? I could understand why Adler got sucked into it, but something should have kicked in that made him put on the brakes when it came to creating new music.

[volcano62]

Adler would have made UYI better if it were not for the drugs.

[Redhead74]

He was too young to realise that fame is a window of opportunity and you've got to make the most of it while it's there.

[WhazUp]

I like Sorum on select tunes like Estanged, Locomotive, etc. but man I can only imagine how much more energetic and better it would have been with Adler on drums

[Nosaj Thing]

Probably but I like Matt Sorum parts on all Illusions tracks.

[Encuentro]

He did perform on UYI2. He performed on Civil War. He handled it well, and the song is a classic. His drumming on the rehearsal kicks ass. If it is slightly off at times, remember it's just a rehearsal. There are flaws in rehearsals. That's why they rehearse. Any flaws that there may have been would have been polished by the time they went into the studio. There was a false start from Slash. Regarding the heavier sound of Sorum's drumming, that probably has more to do with the type of drums he is using, than his actual drumming.

[Bards]

He did perform on UYI2. He performed on Civil War. He handled it well

Perhaps you are unaware that Mike Clink had to splice the drum track together from about forty different takes because Adler's timing was so all over the place. He did anything BUT handle it well.

Steven was great on AFD, but Matt was the right guy for UYI. I think the only reason people give him grief is because of the poodle hair.

[Encuentro]

He did perform on UYI2. He performed on Civil War. He handled it well

Perhaps you are unaware that Mike Clink had to splice the drum track together from about forty different takes because Adler's timing was so all over the place. He did anything BUT handle it well.

Steven was great on AFD, but Matt was the right guy for UYI. I think the only reason people give him grief is because of the poodle hair.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

Just curious to know, if Clink had to splice it together from so many takes, why didn't they simply have Sorum record the drum track?

[Bards]

He did perform on UYI2. He performed on Civil War. He handled it well

Perhaps you are unaware that Mike Clink had to splice the drum track together from about forty different takes because Adler's timing was so all over the place. He did anything BUT handle it well.

Steven was great on AFD, but Matt was the right guy for UYI. I think the only reason people give him grief is because of the poodle hair.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

Just curious to know, if Clink had to splice it together from so many takes, why didn't they simply have Sorum record the drum track?

Civil War was the first song recorded and was for the "Nobody's Child" benefit album for the situation in Romania at the time.

[Vincent Vega]

He did perform on UYI2. He performed on Civil War. He handled it well

Perhaps you are unaware that Mike Clink had to splice the drum track together from about forty different takes because Adler's timing was so all over the place. He did anything BUT handle it well.

Steven was great on AFD, but Matt was the right guy for UYI. I think the only reason people give him grief is because of the poodle hair.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

Just curious to know, if Clink had to splice it together from so many takes, why didn't they simply have Sorum record the drum track?

Civil War was the first song recorded and was for the "Nobody's Child" benefit album for the situation in Romania at the time.

Correct. Civil War was recorded in June 1990; Steven was fired July 11th. The Nobody's Child album came out July 24th. In that span of time Matt probably hadn't been hired yet.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Encuentro]

Slash was very critical of Steven's playing at Farm Aid '90. What do you all think? Was he really that bad?

[Guest GHS]

Very cool the demo! Locomotive sounds a little like Rocket Queen with Steven Adler on it. Very great! I don't know if Steven could have handled--ignoring the drug issue, of course. I guess he could. I'm more with Izzy. I think Matt didn't fit very well. He was too squary and too heavy.

[James Bond]

Steven could have easily handled the songs. Nothing Matt did was overly complicated. Tighter and more refined than Steven, but nothing over the top. The good old "November Rain" fill, for example, pops up every two seconds on the album. Steven's timing would have been looser but as far as playing the parts that are laid out, he would have been fine. Some of his fills might have been different (Steven was more into snare fills whereas Matt favored the toms) but overall I can't see him being unable to handle it, had it not been the drugs of course.

[GnRDuff1]

Handled? Yes. Performed as well? No. Those rehearsal sessions...listen to Locomotive. It's shit with that 16th note high hat bullshit. He already played that in Rocket Queen. To me, it proves that matt DID write a ton of his parts. Locomotive benefits greatly from Matt's dense, precise drumming. Idk, he could have handled them, but the right man played those parts imho.

[31illusions]

Handle it? Hell he wrote virtually all of it. Matt just copied what steven did and put his own twists on the songs.

[SONOFABITCH]

I always said swap out Matt with Steven and eliminate Dizzy Reed and you would have Appetite's evil twin.

[Johnny Drama]

I always said swap out Matt with Steven and eliminate Dizzy Reed and you would have Appetite's evil twin.

What a boss.