James Bond Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 And thanks for admitting he is James Bond.In name only. The last real Bond was Brosnan.Well Brosnan disagrees with you.And?I simply don't like James Putin or what he stands for or the way the Craig films raped the series. I'll take Moore aping Blaxploitation and Kung Fu over what Craig has to offer: Dark, dreary, overly realistic, not fun, Chris Nolan wannabe crap by a guy who looks like he worked for the KGB.Getting shot off a moving train then plunging hundreds of feet into the water and surviving is overly realistic? The fantasy is still there, just toned down. Silva's plot actually makes little sense if you really think about it. He didn't know Bond was going to chase him through the tube yet somehow months in advance knew exactly where to plant explosives to get in Bond's way. When I'm watching the film I don't look for that kind of stuff. I just want to be entertained. Skyfall is filled with humor and is easily the most "feel good" Craig Bond so far.Casino Royale is dark? The first half is ripped off from the Brosnan films, and the second half is just the book. They even opted to not go for a downer ending as in the novel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Even Nolan learned to throw in a little extra fantasy for The Dark Knight Rises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) And thanks for admitting he is James Bond.In name only. The last real Bond was Brosnan.Well Brosnan disagrees with you.And?I simply don't like James Putin or what he stands for or the way the Craig films raped the series. I'll take Moore aping Blaxploitation and Kung Fu over what Craig has to offer: Dark, dreary, overly realistic, not fun, Chris Nolan wannabe crap by a guy who looks like he worked for the KGB.Getting shot off a moving train then plunging hundreds of feet into the water and surviving is overly realistic? The fantasy is still there, just toned down. Silva's plot actually makes little sense if you really think about it. He didn't know Bond was going to chase him through the tube yet somehow months in advance knew exactly where to plant explosives to get in Bond's way. When I'm watching the film I don't look for that kind of stuff. I just want to be entertained. Skyfall is filled with humor and is easily the most "feel good" Craig Bond so far.Casino Royale is dark? The first half is ripped off from the Brosnan films, and the second half is just the book. They even opted to not go for a downer ending as in the novel.It's just the overall tone and aesthetic and feel of the Craig films overall. The whole more character driven, edgier, Dalton-inspired, more novel purist approach. I've never liked the novels and Craig's films are basically Dalton in the 21st century and I've never liked Dalton's films...They just bore me. It's lessened to a point that it just feels too real, too dark, too much like Batman. Even Nolan's Batman films had utterly unrealistic moments, but do you get what I mean about the tone and general atmosphere? I don't care about the plot all that much; it's more about the tone and the atmosphere it gives off and how much fun it is. Like I've said in the past, Connery is my favorite followed by Moore, and despite it's cheesiness, I even love Diamonds Are Forever because it's an incredibly enjoyable film and doesn't really veer into "self parody" or the ridiculous anymore than most of the Moore films o. That's just the kind of Bond I like: Fun, glamorous, exotic, tempered with a little darkness. James Bond is about escapism. I'd LOVE to be Connery or Moore's Bond...Not so much Dalton or Craig who seem fucking depressed at heart and seem to deep down hate their jobs. I like more how cold Connery and Moore are. Edited March 18, 2013 by Vincent Vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Because Dalton and Craig weren't cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Because Dalton and Craig weren't cold.Cold but in a fucking depressing way. Cold because you can tell they HAVE to be, part of a defense mechanism, because they loathe what they do, but have to do it. Connery came off just naturally cold, a guy who could kill and not feel a thing while being charming and witty and Moore was even more so, truly a charming sociopath type. I don't like Bond to have much depth or be all emotional and shit and challenged about what he has to do for a living. Edited March 18, 2013 by Vincent Vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think they come off as depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) I don't think they come off as depressing.It's just the actors I suppose. I've always found Timothy Dalton just a dark, morose and sort of depressing presence in general, even in non-Bond films. Haven't seen any of Craig's non-Bonds but I get the same sort of feel from him and he comes off more thuggish than Dalton. Edited March 18, 2013 by Vincent Vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Moving on now.What are your favorite moments from each Bond actor?Lets start with Daniel Craig since it is a hot topic.I've been really enjoying that scene with Bond and Severine at the casino. She struts around, like she is a boss, tries to tell Bond to take the money and mind his own business, but Bond turns the tables on her, lets her know he knows she is being controlled by the bodyguards and that she is afraid. It would drive feminists insane but Bond becomes her only ticket out of the hopeless situation."If I bring you to him, could you kill him?""Yes""Will you kill him?""Someone usually dies"And she answers that with such delight. Just a great scene from him.Good question!ConneryInterviewing Tatiana while on the boat, and completely blowing off all her advances on him. And when he bitchslaps her on the train.LazenbyWhen Tracy gets shot. Can't say Lazenby can't act after seeing that.MoorePre-titles of The Spy Who Loved Me.DaltonHonestly don't know. As much as I love Dalton, there isn't a standout scene for me.BrosnanGoldeneye PTS.CraigShanghai in Skyfall. That's where it was blatantly obvious that Craig was finally the well-oiled machine of old Bonds, not the naive, inexperienced Bond of CR and QOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I liked him in The Lion in Winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think they come off as depressing.It's just the actors I suppose. I've always found Timothy Dalton just a dark, morose and sort of depressing presence in general, even in non-Bond films. Haven't seen any of Craig's non-Bonds but I get the same sort of feel from him and he comes off more thuggish than Dalton.Even though I absolutely oppose your standpoint on Craig, you're spot on there. Throw in some gadgets and make Bond a journalist, and Girl With The Dragon Tattoo could've passed for a Craig-era Bond film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I liked him in The Lion in Winter.Even there he just exudes this morose, depressing presence. "No one cares about poor old Geoffrey." And I tend to love that film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's just the overall tone and aesthetic and feel of the Craig films overall. The whole more character driven, edgier, Dalton-inspired, more novel purist approach. I've never liked the novels and Craig's films are basically Dalton in the 21st century and I've never liked Dalton's films...They just bore me. It's lessened to a point that it just feels too real, too dark, too much like Batman. Even Nolan's Batman films had utterly unrealistic moments, but do you get what I mean about the tone and general atmosphere? I don't care about the plot all that much; it's more about the tone and the atmosphere it gives off and how much fun it is.I know what you mean about the tone/atmosphere. It just seemed like you were saying the Craig films are totally devoid of any of the fantasy or charm of Bond, which I disagree with. To me, Craig in the Ocean Club scenes in Casino Royale is Connery. He only gets darker as a character after the Vesper betrayal. Quantum inevitably had a darker tone as a result and to no surprise, it's been the weakest of the Craig films so far. Craig for me is the hybrid of Dalton and Connery - you've got the grittiness and character depth, but also with charm and charisma which is something I felt Dalton lacked. Despite Dalton's acting strengths, he didn't come across as a very charismatic performer and didn't carry the screen in the same way as Craig or Connery, and even Brosnan and Moore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Moving on now.What are your favorite moments from each Bond actor?Lets start with Daniel Craig since it is a hot topic.I've been really enjoying that scene with Bond and Severine at the casino. She struts around, like she is a boss, tries to tell Bond to take the money and mind his own business, but Bond turns the tables on her, lets her know he knows she is being controlled by the bodyguards and that she is afraid. It would drive feminists insane but Bond becomes her only ticket out of the hopeless situation."If I bring you to him, could you kill him?""Yes""Will you kill him?""Someone usually dies"And she answers that with such delight. Just a great scene from him.Good question!ConneryInterviewing Tatiana while on the boat, and completely blowing off all her advances on him. And when he bitchslaps her on the train.LazenbyWhen Tracy gets shot. Can't say Lazenby can't act after seeing that.MoorePre-titles of The Spy Who Loved Me.DaltonHonestly don't know. As much as I love Dalton, there isn't a standout scene for me.BrosnanGoldeneye PTS.CraigShanghai in Skyfall. That's where it was blatantly obvious that Craig was finally the well-oiled machine of old Bonds, not the naive, inexperienced Bond of CR and QOS.A stand out for Dalton for me would be Koskov's defection. I think it was the first true depiction of Fleming's Bond. He follows his orders but does alter them to do what he feels is right.Also the scene in LTK where he throws the suitcase at Killgore.For Connery, the scene where he tells Domino that her brother is dead. It is one of the few character driven scenes in the Connery films, even looked like he was about to cry when he put on the shades. When the scene got too depressing enter the henchmen who got harpooned to a tree.Lazenby, his scene with Diana Rigg at the hotel. "I can think of something more sociable to do."Moore, when he forces himself on Octopussy "You're right, we are two of a kind."Brosnan when he kills Dr. Kaufman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Even though I absolutely oppose your standpoint on Craig, you're spot on there. Throw in some gadgets and make Bond a journalist, and Girl With The Dragon Tattoo could've passed for a Craig-era Bond film.I can agree with this. It even had a very Bond-like title sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's just the overall tone and aesthetic and feel of the Craig films overall. The whole more character driven, edgier, Dalton-inspired, more novel purist approach. I've never liked the novels and Craig's films are basically Dalton in the 21st century and I've never liked Dalton's films...They just bore me. It's lessened to a point that it just feels too real, too dark, too much like Batman. Even Nolan's Batman films had utterly unrealistic moments, but do you get what I mean about the tone and general atmosphere? I don't care about the plot all that much; it's more about the tone and the atmosphere it gives off and how much fun it is. Craig for me is the hybrid of Dalton and Connery - you've got the grittiness and character depth, but also with charm and charisma which is something I felt Dalton lacked. Despite Dalton's acting strengths, he didn't come across as a very charismatic performer and didn't carry the screen in the same way as Craig or Connery, and even Brosnan and Moore.Here's the thing: I feel Connery had ALL of those qualities. The grittiness you mention, the coldness of a professional (but who does feel some feelings and some regret such as in Goldfinger when Jill Masterson is killed). Th character depth is implicit; it doesn't need to be shouted at you. Connery's mannerisms in certain scenes show you there's more to the guy than just wit and charm, but it doesn't devolve into a psychological thing the way it does with Craig and Dalton. It's like, we don't need to be hit over the head with the fact that Bond doesn't really enjoy his job at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Connery's mannerisms was really Terrence Young's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can we agree that is the best or at the very least second best James Bond theme song ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Rewatched Skyfall today and my consensus still remains: bottom on the list of James Bond movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can we agree that is the best or at the very least second best James Bond theme song ever?Thunderball.The Welsh have it best in the Connery Years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can we agree that is the best or at the very least second best James Bond theme song ever?Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can we agree that is the best or at the very least second best James Bond theme song ever?We sure can. Well, I don't place it that high on my list but hey, I won't argue with that. Definitely a beautiful song and it worked nicely in Barry's score. That score is actually one of Barry's best I think.Rewatched Skyfall today and my consensus still remains: bottom on the list of James Bond movies.Did you really have to rewatch it for us to know that you still don't like it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can we agree that is the best or at the very least second best James Bond theme song ever?Best? No. Is it a good Bond theme? Yes - probably in my top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The only worthwhile Bond themes, IMO:1) Goldfinger2) You Only Live Twice3) Kingston Calypso4) Live and Let Die5) Thunderball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 "Three blind mice in a row, three blind mice THERE THEY GO!"That's really your number three? To each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The only worthwhile Bond themes, IMO:1) Goldfinger2) You Only Live Twice3) Kingston Calypso4) Live and Let Die5) ThunderballlolIt's blasphemous not to have We Have All The Time In The World and A View To A Kill on there at the very least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.