To Everyone blaming GNR for lack of New Album

[prettytiedup88]

The EMI takeover wont have anything to do with GNR not releasing music. EMI's artists will no doubt feel the reprucussions and have a few road blocks because their recorded music, publishing and merch deals will change but nothing will change for the artists on the UMG roster. Its not UMG being bought.

You'd imagine releasing the CD leftovers will come with a fair share of issues especially if CD was the last album obligation to their contract. The leftovers would have been funded by UMG through their investment in the recording of CD thus, if the band want to release them under their own independant (ala slash) or through a new major label they would have to purchase the rights off UMG and that must be a massive legal chore.

Again any form of live concert footage, documentaries etc would most likely mirror the above complications due to publishing rights to the songs being used (who knows if the label contributed to any of the recordings or editing of any documentaries, music videos etc that have been made and not released yet).

I'm no expert at all but logically you'd imagine the simplest and most efficient way to hear new material would be to record brand new music with the current line up under a new label (assuming they have fullfileld all their contractual obligations with UMG) and start fresh so to speak. Given Axl's seemingly perfectionist outlook on his craft its hard to imagine him not pushing for this to happen. An ever increasing number of bands are releasing their music independently and it would give Axl the full creative control he clearly desires - seems like a good match from where i'm standing.

I'd love to hear the CD leftovers but its gotten to the point i'm not precious about what Axl releases CD era or latest lineup material, after 6 albums of pure musical gold i know full well i'm going to love whatever he next lets out the vault and i'm damn exited to hear it!

[evader]

Axl could call Bucket and offer him the world to return, while dropping BBF and DJ. That may solve the problem of releasing the CD sessions since Bucket had such an important role in recording them.

Aside from the handful of GNR fans that don't like Bucket, I think most would be thrilled, the majority would stop their obsessive calls for a reunion of 1991, and Axl could get back on the road and focus on the "new material".

Without either Bucket or Finck on board, I don't think we're going to hear many of the remaining songs from 1999-2004, ever.

[dalsh327]

Axl could call Bucket and offer him the world to return, while dropping BBF and DJ. That may solve the problem of releasing the CD sessions since Bucket had such an important role in recording them.

Aside from the handful of GNR fans that don't like Bucket, I think most would be thrilled, the majority would stop their obsessive calls for a reunion of 1991, and Axl could get back on the road and focus on the "new material".

Without either Bucket or Finck on board, I don't think we're going to hear many of the remaining songs from 1999-2004, ever.

I think Axl accepted that Bucket was kind of flaky, but bailing right before a huge gig and canceling? I don't think Axl's gotten over that.

People will never stop speculating about a reunion. They already know that, prepared for it, because I'm sure they've had bands they wish could reunite as well. They do see it from our point of view, believe it or not. Duff questioning it as a nostalgia tour - every reunion that's happened wasn't about nostalgia, people usually missed out the first time, so they take what they can get from the reunion tour. Why would someone who saw them at their peak want to see a bunch of old guys on stage and pay out the ass for it years later? Usually they're content with the memories. Maybe some dad takes his kid to see Slash and Axl doing their own thing and can talk about seeing them at L'Amours or the Troubadour, but that's more of a family bonding thing.

We have no idea what's planned next. Axl prob. has ideas of which songs he wants to work on, but I think this time around, he's going to be going back to having the band come up with the music, and adding the lyrics to it, which is the way they used to do it. I think bringing Izzy and Duff into the brainstorm sessions would help as far as that goes, but the understanding would be that they're there as guests, not coming back into the fold. We have no idea if Tobias would be involved or not, or any of the engineers from the ChiDem sessions. Maybe, if they're available, or they put the time aside to it. I think it'll come together faster, esp. if Axl had finished some of the songs back in 2008-2009. It's possible he was working on a follow up back then.

Can GNR put an album out and have it sell without much promotion except the live shows? Don't know. It's not like people are tuning into radio anymore. Spending 6 figures on something and few people even know it's out there? That's the dilemma he's faced with. I think the ChiDem release was a setback, and the only smart thing he did was take the Best Buy money. But making it an exclusive hurt sales, without a doubt. Posting the entire thing on MySpace prob. cost them a million copies in sales, everyone either ripped it or waited until it was out to file share it. They prob. made more money from libraries ordering it than people going out and buying it.

GNR, even with a reunion, will never be able to relive its glory days. I can tell they miss the camaraderie of being young guys with a shared goal. Once the whole thing got big, it fell apart.

[Crowebar]

I think this time around, he's going to be going back to having the band come up with the music, and adding the lyrics to it, which is the way they used to do it. I think bringing Izzy and Duff into the brainstorm sessions would help

I think the ChiDem release was a setback, and the only smart thing he did was take the Best Buy money.

I can tell they miss the camaraderie of being young guys with a shared goal. Once the whole thing got big, it fell apart.

CD's release was a complete fiasco and a joke in terms of how it was handled by all involved. Including Axl. Something was really weird about that whole thing. "Monumental Promotion" my ass.......

Either way, I hope we get new music sometime. I hope it's handled a little more professionally as well.

[Modano09]

What hurt CD's release is that it went from anticipated mythical album to long running joke.

2002 was probably the best chance to release it. After that, 2006, when they returned, Axl looked/sounded great, they played shows, they toured, they sounded great. And then disappeared again...Whether people loved Axl or hated him for "breaking up" the original band, if he had of released it earlier people would have paid attention to it. Hey, being pro-Axl I was anti-everyone else but I still checked out VR's album when it came out....but the longer it went on the more of a joke it became. A lot of people just stopped caring.

[tkarmy]

I would not be surprised at all if the label said "listen, we gave you15 million, you recorded a million hours of stuff and we are not paying one more cent towards anything.... and BTW you owe us another 1 or 2 albums... PERIOD"

I mean it no secret Axl exceeded all recording budgets by millions. The best buy thing might have smoothed the CD release but I can see why the label might just say screw him.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Axl could call Bucket and offer him the world to return, while dropping BBF and DJ. That may solve the problem of releasing the CD sessions since Bucket had such an important role in recording them.

Aside from the handful of GNR fans that don't like Bucket, I think most would be thrilled, the majority would stop their obsessive calls for a reunion of 1991, and Axl could get back on the road and focus on the "new material".

Without either Bucket or Finck on board, I don't think we're going to hear many of the remaining songs from 1999-2004, ever.

How do you know how much Bucket had to do with the rest of the CD sessions? The only thing that's been mentioned (that I'm aware of) is one of Robin's solos.

[Mastodonny]

Axl should just buy out his contract with the label and release music independently like Radiohead, NIN or Smashing Pumpkins.

[Zint]

In a recent RS interview Neil Peart from RUSH was discussing an impending New Album,and Pete Townsend said "why bother?"

Understandable for Pete considering the band's last few attempts were less than stellar.

[dalsh327]

What hurt CD's release is that it went from anticipated mythical album to long running joke.

2002 was probably the best chance to release it. After that, 2006, when they returned, Axl looked/sounded great, they played shows, they toured, they sounded great. And then disappeared again...Whether people loved Axl or hated him for "breaking up" the original band, if he had of released it earlier people would have paid attention to it. Hey, being pro-Axl I was anti-everyone else but I still checked out VR's album when it came out....but the longer it went on the more of a joke it became. A lot of people just stopped caring.

VMA's was a bad decision.

[Crash Diet]

I totally agree. It's time to do his own thing with his own label. That seems to be the trend anyway. Didn't Slash even start his own label. It seems like Axl would easily be able to do this, perform a little markenting, and a lot of digital downloading availability.

this

[Rdeyahlxp]

NIN, or Trent Reznor and How to Destroy Angels to be more specific, actually signed to a major label again yesterday.

[PirateChick]

axl rose is 2 blame for lack of new album in 2012

I don't agree with you, we all know labels are greedy mofos and we all know Axl's attitude must have pissed the label off so IMO he's not 100% innocent but he's not 100% guilty either. I blame 80% the label

[stumbleine]

it's not the label,it's all Axl.

now we're just making up excuses.

[smokingarthur]

axl rose is 2 blame for lack of new album in 2012

I don't agree with you, we all know labels are greedy mofos and we all know Axl's attitude must have pissed the label off so IMO he's not 100% innocent but he's not 100% guilty either. I blame 80% the label

They are all "greedy mofo's"? It's a business, one that barely keeps them afloat as is. Look how many labels have disappeared in the last decade? You must think everyone who drives a nicer car than you is greedy. Typical defeatist mentality. It is 100% Axl, don't fool yourself.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

i think the label would be happy to sit on axl's worthless cd outtakes out of spite. everyone at the label had been rooting for him to fail for years and years. they got their money back from best buy, so they've washed their hands of the whole experience. they could give a fuck about axl now. his shithead ways came back to bite him in the ass. they own whatever he has, but they aren't going to bother with it. and they're sure as fuck not going to humor whatever silly demands team brasil is making. i wonder if they even return her calls.

[sailaway]

axl rose is 2 blame for lack of new album in 2012

I don't agree with you, we all know labels are greedy mofos and we all know Axl's attitude must have pissed the label off so IMO he's not 100% innocent but he's not 100% guilty either. I blame 80% the label

They are all "greedy mofo's"? It's a business, one that barely keeps them afloat as is. Look how many labels have disappeared in the last decade? You must think everyone who drives a nicer car than you is greedy. Typical defeatist mentality. It is 100% Axl, don't fool yourself.

No, actually the Labels are the ones to blame for their own current financial difficulties by refusing to adapt with the times and making the necessary changes/cuts.

They ought to treat established Artists like a valuable commodity/asset but they prefer to use the exploitable "talent du jour". That is only a tiny glimpse of what is wrong with music today.

[smokingarthur]

axl rose is 2 blame for lack of new album in 2012

I don't agree with you, we all know labels are greedy mofos and we all know Axl's attitude must have pissed the label off so IMO he's not 100% innocent but he's not 100% guilty either. I blame 80% the label

They are all "greedy mofo's"? It's a business, one that barely keeps them afloat as is. Look how many labels have disappeared in the last decade? You must think everyone who drives a nicer car than you is greedy. Typical defeatist mentality. It is 100% Axl, don't fool yourself.

No, actually the Labels are the ones to blame for their own current financial difficulties by refusing to adapt with the times and making the necessary changes/cuts.

They ought to treat established Artists like a valuable commodity/asset but they prefer to use the exploitable "talent du jour". That is only a tiny glimpse of what is wrong with music today.

Wow sailaway you have all the answers don't you? While I do agree with your sentiment to some degree, no one could have predicted the future, especially you. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[sailaway]

Consider the following ,apply it to a broader spectrum:

After indicating his dissatisfaction with Interscope and his desire to go independent, Shady Records artist Yelawolf has offered some insight into what’s rubbing him the wrong way at the major label. According to Yela, the problem isn’t any of the famous names associated with Interscope, but the massive number of execs under Jimmy Iovine.

Yela explained that he was happy to be working with Eminem’s imprint, and added that he’s never even set foot in Interscope’s offices. “I don’t fuckin’ know anybody up there, not no one. I’ve never fuckin’ walked up in the building. The couple of people that I do know are friends of mine and that’s it. Jimmy Iovine gave me a green light, and I thank him forever for green [lighting] me on over to [shady], introducing me to Paul [Rosenberg, Eminem's manager], Marshall –that’s a dream situation, man,” Yelawolf told HHDX.

According to Yelawolf, Interscope might just be too massive, and he explained that artists have to be able to handle their own business if they want to get anywhere with the label. “But there’s people under him I believe that are confusing situations. They obviously can’t have their hands on everything – there’s a lot of fuckin’ artists under the wings of a big label like that, so when you become part of a label or a situation that fuckin’ massive, you have to just really be smart about how you handle your business and make that your team in on-point with everything single thing and you’re paying attention to every single detail. If you lose that, then sometimes you get caught up,” said Yela.

Having to pay attention to the monetary side of his career is part of Yela’s problem with Interscope, and he explained that all he cares about is making music. “I just don’t want to fuckin’ do business, man, what the fuck. I’m a rapper, I’m an artist. I pay my manager to handle all that shit. I don’t even like talking like this, I feel like a nerd to even be bothered with the business of it. I know some artists – and especially rappers – are all about, ‘I wanna be a businessman, this is a business.’ Fuck all that; I want to be creative,” said Yela.

Edited September 26, 2012 by sailaway

[HisRoyalSweetness]

only in crazy gnr land could someone argue that supporting a new axl rose album would be a wise move for a struggling record label. axl rose isn't an industry savior. he's a perfect metaphor for why the industry died.

[sailaway]

only in crazy gnr land could someone argue that supporting a new axl rose album would be a wise move for a struggling record label. axl rose isn't an industry savior. he's a perfect metaphor for why the industry died.

Actually No,you are wrong as usual.

Don Henley on the recording industry,excerpt:

Even with many artists on the sidelines, "there are enough of us, older and new, who know what's going on," Henley says. "We're going up against labels that have a powerful presence in Washington and have been politically active for 60 years. And yet we're making strides. We're getting help from managers, lawyers and politicians to get the fair treatment we deserve. The pendulum is swinging to our side."

The artists' coalition, which is financed in part by benefit concerts, plans to staff offices in Washington and Los Angeles before Murray's bill resurfaces next year. Though reform efforts in the '50s led by the likes of Frank Sinatra and Stan Kenton fell short, Henley says music's empowered boomer generation, the fuel for the industry's expansion in the '60s and '70s, is better informed and more willing to speak out.

"Like all other corporations, the music industry has gotten greedier," Henley says. "It's about profit, profit and more profit that always comes at a cost of principles. The predicament the record industry finds itself in is of its own making. They've alienated consumers and artists, and whether the rights movement succeeds, the house will fall under its own weight."

[sailaway]

By Edna Gundersen, USA TODAY Record companies see it as mutiny. Musicians call it an overdue rebellion. Either way, the artists' rights movement has set the stage for combat that could revolutionize the music industry.

By Kin Cheung, Reuters

What started as a classic David-and-Goliath skirmish over contractual terms could be tilting toward a level battlefield as opposition on a wide range of issues swells against an industry mired in a sales slump.

"The record business is in rough enough shape that something might actually change," says Craig Marks, editor of Blender magazine. "If things weren't so uncertain, so bleak and in such disarray, the industry would be immovable, even with a gun to its head. If there was ever a set of circumstances that could lead to artists making inroads, it's now."

Clinging to the status quo are the world's five major record conglomerates: Universal, Sony, Time Warner, EMI/Virgin and Bertelsmann, represented by a powerful trade group, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). They face challenges from increasingly vocal performers supporting the Recording Artists' Coalition (RAC), whose diverse roster of 150 members includes Bruce Springsteen, Sting, R.E.M., Bonnie Raitt, Madonna, Eric Clapton, Dave Matthews, Billy Joel, Elton John, Linkin Park, Aimee Mann, No Doubt, Puddle of Mudd, Staind

[jmapelian]

For a succedful musician that has a long time loyal fan base to bitch about their label is pretty lame and is more of anexcuse nowadys; there plenty of ways for an artist to get his or her music out, the way they want it without dealing with a record label

[sailaway]

Caps on contract lengths. Most major-label agreements require a commitment of six to eight albums, an obligation that can entail an indefinite term of indentured servitude. California state Sen. Kevin Murray, a Democrat, wrote a bill to repeal an amendment that exempts recording artists from a state law limiting contracts to seven years.

After RAC and the RIAA failed to reach a compromise, the bill was pulled Aug. 15. Murray plans to resubmit it next year as part of a larger package also addressing accounting practices, pension plans and health benefits.

Accounting practices. Audits routinely detect unpaid royalties. Music industry lawyer Don Engel, who estimates that labels misreport and underpay artist royalties by 10% to 40%, says industry accounting practices are "intentionally fraudulent." Music writer Dave Marsh describes the process as "an entrenched system whose prowess and conniving makes Enron look like amateur hour." Royalties, based on complex and antiquated formulas that favor labels, are disbursed only after artists pay back advances, recording costs and other expenses.

Greg Hessinger, director of the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA), a union representing 80,000 actors, musicians and other entertainment workers, says this recoupment method "is so replete with ambiguity, complexity and subjectivity that the only true long-term solution is a complete overhaul. Until we can bury the recoupment system, changes must be implemented that provide for greater transparency and a fuller duty to account so that artists can at least be certain that they are being paid correctly."

Producer Steve Albini, trashing label practices in The Baffler magazine, outlines a hypothetical but typical record deal that bestows a $250,000 advance on a young band. The album sells 250,000 copies, earning $710,000 for the label. The band, after repaying expenses ranging from recording fees and video budgets to catering, wardrobe and tour bus costs, is left $14,000 in the hole on royalties.

A California Senate hearing on accounting practices is set for Sept. 24 in Los Angeles.

Health and pension benefits. Soul legend Sam Moore and other artists are suing record companies and the AFTRA Health and Retirement Funds (a separate entity from the union) for pension benefits. Atlantic, which has sold Moore's music since 1967, never deposited a nickel into his pension because of convoluted formulas tied to royalties. Not surprisingly, labels are balking at paying roughly 20,000 artists up to 30 years of back pension and health benefits. The union, negotiating with labels since May, hopes to secure increased access to health insurance and improvements in pension participation when talks resume in October. Among 200 artists who signed a letter supporting the union's proposal are Steve Earle, John Hiatt, Johnny Cash, Marilyn Horne, Carole King, Billy Bob Thornton and Coolio. Copyright and ownership. Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, once stated that the record business is the only industry in which the bank still owns the house after the mortgage is paid. Artists are demanding copyright reform and a reasonable means of reacquiring their master recordings. Payola reforms. Labels sidestep payola laws by hiring independent promoters to lobby and compensate radio stations for playing certain records. Opponents say this quasi-legal system stifles creativity and limits diversity.

The drumbeat of war has been building in recent years as artists wrestle for self-empowerment and vow to amend a system that let soul greats Otis Blackwell, Jackie Wilson and Mary Wells die destitute. Before she died, Peggy Lee was part of a class-action settlement that won unpaid royalties. Courtney Love filed suit to break her Geffen contract. Prince fled the corporate structure and pitched camp on the Internet, where he sells directly to fans. Tom Petty's upcoming album, The Last D.J., slams industry greed.

[Apollo]

Hrs what are you talking about.

Axl is not to blame for the lack of a new album. It is all the label's fault.

Look what they did to him last time. A lot of unfair expectations. Those greedy bastards kept trying to put deadlines on Axl to finish CD. They kept trying to force him to work with various producers. And they stopped giving him money. And then they expected Axl to actually go out and promote the album?

Jeez. That label is clearly in the wrong now by not going out of their way to cater to Axl. What the label experienced with Axl on CD is the industry norm for all bands. All bands get over a decade and over 10 million dollars, are allowed to go through producers like water, and don't have to meet the deadlines of the people supplying the money.

Sure. Some bands are willing to play the label's game. And the end result is being able to share their music with their fans. But to some bands the "fans, music" aspect is a little lower on their importance scales. Bands operate differently.