To Everyone blaming GNR for lack of New Album

[The Glow Inc.]

"Album is our main focus right now"..."maybe next year" - DJ Ashba, 2009

Yay, it's our main focus, but let's book a tour, another tour, and another tour first !

[sailaway]

"Once people have a true understanding of what's involved, the labels will be forced to reform," he says. "The RIAA has positioned this as a bunch of rich old rock stars seeking revenge and better deals. The truth is, this system would not be suffered in any other business. You have record companies bought and sold on the strength of copyrights created by artists who sign away all rights in perpetuity to a faceless corporation.

"In the past 20 years, an industry that was led by visionaries and music lovers has become dominated by accountants, financial analysts and people who can't think ahead more than 90 days."

Wayne Kramer, founder of punk's seminal MC5, felt some empathy for embattled record execs after he established his label, MuscleTone, last year.

"I have a new respect for how hard it is to run a label, and I know record companies lose money on most bands," Kramer says. "But artists know the score. Since the business started, record companies have been getting away with murder. Almost none of the musicians I know have health insurance. Every record executive I know has health insurance, a nice house in the hills and a golden parachute."

The artist-rights movement "is an unglamorous, unfun, unsexy part of this business that the public won't find fascinating," Kramer adds. "But you can't write it off as rich rock stars bellyaching. There's a systematic unfairness that has to be addressed."

*************

At least one rich rock star says he's bellyaching on behalf of music itself, not just the artists who make it.

"We're on the threshold of a whole new system," says Rolling Stones guitarist Keith Richards. "The time where accountants decide what music people hear is coming to an end. Accountants may be good at numbers, but they have terrible taste in music. I don't know how I'm going to get paid, but I'd rather go out into the brave new world than live with dinosaurs that are far too big for their boots."

[maynard]

nice try sailaway, but it's obvious axl is the main reason for the lack of new music. greedy labels may be the devil for you, but every major band i know have a pretty good relationship with their labels.

[sailaway]

Hrs what are you talking about.

Axl is not to blame for the lack of a new album. It is all the label's fault.

Look what they did to him last time. A lot of unfair expectations. Those greedy bastards kept trying to put deadlines on Axl to finish CD. They kept trying to force him to work with various producers. And they stopped giving him money. And then they expected Axl to actually go out and promote the album?

Jeez. That label is clearly in the wrong n

ow by not going out of their way to cater to Axl. What the label experienced with Axl on CD is the industry norm for all bands. All bands get over a decade and over 10 million dollars, are allowed to go through producers like water, and don't have to meet the deadlines of the people supplying the money.

Sure. Some bands are willing to play the label's game. And the end result is being able to share their music with their fans. But to some bands the "fans, music" aspect is a little lower on their importance scales. Bands operate differently.

If you have no knowledge of the topic at hand,kindly stay out of it and stuff the attempt at snarky sarcasm.

nice try sailaway, but it's obvious axl is the main reason for the lack of new music. greedy labels may be the devil for you, but every major band i know have a pretty good relationship with their labels.

You have no idea what you are talking about,do some research-talk less,read more.

Anyone heard of Tom Waits??

** Point: 'Corporations don't have feelings'**

"The record companies are like cartels, like countries, for God's sake," singer/songwriter Tom Waits says. "It's a nightmare to be trapped in one. I'm on a good label (Epitaph) now that's not part of the plantation system. But all the old records I did for Island have been swallowed up and spit out in whatever form they choose. These corporations don't have feelings, and they don't see themselves as the stewards of the work. They are making shoes, and then they want to go to the Bahamas and get a suntan."

He advises new artists to "get a good lawyer and don't ever sign away your publishing rights. Most people are so anxious to record, they'll sign anything. It's like going across the river on the back of an alligator."

Waits joined the artists' coalition in hopes of exposing the industry's shadowy business practices.

"Artists really do need to communicate and organize," he says. "Don Henley is willing to get a haircut and go to Washington. I'm all for that."

Rock veteran Henley, an RAC founder, is confident the movement will lead to significant change, despite reluctance by some artists to get involved.

"Newer artists don't want to rock the boat," he says. "They're still starry-eyed idealists and haven't been around long enough to be mistreated. Other artists simply don't understand the issues or are too self-absorbed."

A new artist's limited avenues fuel apprehension, says Marks, noting that such midlevel acts as Aimee Mann and Ani DiFranco are content to toil outside the empire, but "most artists want to hear their song on the radio, see their big-budget video on MTV and be on stage in front of 50,000 people. The major labels have access to radio and TV. If push comes to shove, you're being shoved off a fairly steep cliff

[The Glow Inc.]

Ehm...Last I checked, Fortus was saying the next album ( which has been in the works for approximately thirteen years . . . ) still needed some studio time so how is that the fault of the label anyway ?

Album needs more recording but GnR books a Vegas residency. LET'S BLAME UNIVERSAL !

Edited September 26, 2012 by The Glow Inc.

[vaida]

Axl has the money and resources to fund the creation of a new album. Should he and the others come up with something good, then there should be no problem finding a record company willing to release it. Even if they come up with something awful, the name Guns N'Roses should get them a deal, as x amount of sales are guaranteed. The original (1st) post is ridiculous. Don't blame anyone but Axl for lack of new material.

..and I doubt Axl will get another Best Buy deal offered to him

Edited September 26, 2012 by vaida

[sailaway]

Don't kid yourself,and assume the rest of us are clueless. It's easy to Blame GNR for all the faults of the Current state of the Music Industry but that is an inaccurate

picture,Look instead at the bigger picture and realize where we are in 2012

Excerpt from "the money sponge"

The record industry treats its suppliers, customers and the public with contempt. What will they do when they run out of new ways to chisel points? Perhaps they will have to find real talent that stands on its own feet. For thousands of years musicians made money without making records. It doesn’t make sense pouring so much effort into a handful of here-today-gone-tomorrow artists who barely break even on record sales. TV, film and games musicians earn far more than the old-fashioned record pushers.

Every big label artist has to carry an army of label middlemen. In the long history of music, the record industry is just a tick of the clock. No business has a right to live in the past.

The music industry is not the world

Middlemen made the record industry complex but it’s really very simple under all the mumbo-jumbo. In a thousand ways their elaborate network of mutual self-interest will break down as the money runs out. Musicians and their agents could easily negotiate non-exclusive, one-off deals. Today’s musicians are much more savvy about their rights, licenses, publishing, packaging, distribution, and of course new media. Left to their own devices indies can often manage the business and the connection with their fans more effectively. They don’t need the all-or-nothing corporate label nanny. With so many other ways to reach their market they don’t want a premium price PR service that is bloated, devious and ineffective.

Axl has the money and resources to fund the creation of a new album. Should he and the others come up with something good, then there should be no problem finding a record company willing to release it. Even if they come up with something awful, the name Guns N'Roses should get them a deal, as x amount of sales are guaranteed. The original (1st) post is ridiculous. Don't blame anyone but Axl for lack of new material.

..and I doubt Axl will get another Best Buy deal offered to him

I am not interested in uninformed opinions that erroneously blame one person for an entire industry at odds with the public,and grasping at straws to stay afloat.

Where are the songs?

Media saturation and playlist power prop up a celebrity production line that has forgotten how to find and use great music. Instead, they invest in the same pop formula for the next wave of 10 year olds, the same sub-porn for adolescents and the same faux-punk for college. Music in the rest of the world has a million different flavours and real passion.

Technology, fashion and ideas change but the music industry invents nothing. A billion and one genres (jazz, swing, bluegrass, rock and roll, progressive, punk, rap, hip-hop, etc., etc.) have been created by the man in the street. The music industry always arrives just in time to fire up mass production. It never leads.

Fashion defies control and prediction. There are no absolute genres, just changing shades of taste. The tradition of music is bigger than the product-driven, culture-lite, post-modern, low-attention-span industry hype. I don’t think the next generation is stupid or that all the good songs have been written. Why is the UK generally exiled from the US charts (6)? It’s simple—all style and no substance. No decent songs. And why can’t we sell the UK number one record to more than 0.1% of our population? The same reason.

Making the Internet work

Somehow, the music industry always has a crisis with new technology—first printing, then recording and broadcasting, and now the Internet. Major labels can’t seem to make the Internet work but independents can. While the Majors fumble with overwrought delivery systems, music on the Internet is growing steadily.

Editorial, zines, blogs, forums, communities, social networks and fan sites. Internet radio, streaming and podcasts with DIY and independent tracks. Artists selling CDs directly online and selling downloads through independent aggregators. New record labels, publishers, and artist sites. DIY CDs, download communities and merchandise retail sites. Fan funding and support for tours and recordings. Music hubs Topspin, ReverbNation, Nimbit and others track web activity in detail.

The Majors, through the RIAA and BPI, are doing their best to strangle all this at birth. They would rather meet the future on their own terms with albums of filler tracks at high prices, and without a middleman like iTunes or Amazon. They particularly fear truly independent radio and distribution. Their own artists are kept on a short leash until their contracts run out, renewals are no longer automatic, artists have options.

Meanwhile DIY, independent and ex-Major artists make their own records. Small labels make single album and distribution deals. Online retailers no longer dare demand the rights to recordings and songs (as they tried in 2002). Indie acts frequently manage their rights through publishing administration and licensing. Hordes of music fans, unrepresented by the chart monoculture, are finding and evaluating what’s really out there. The music industry is not the world.

The old players think sales are dropping because of piracy but now people try before they buy and avoid filler tracks and dud albums. The falling cost of recording and distribution increases diversity. Major labels have lost their grip on the throat of commercial music, they simply aren’t up to the job. They currently burn more than 95% of the turnover and at 100% they’re bankrupt.

Of course, I could be wrong.

(2011 edit: so far, 9 years later,they are proving me right.)

[sailaway]

Read.entire.article HERE

"The Money Sponge" was originally written in 2002,It is still relevant in 2012 & includes many interesting facts.

[sailaway]

Please Read before posting some more innane remarks:

The big labels are shrinking

It is now generally accepted that the failure of the big labels to license Napster in July 2000 was a serious mistake (there were negotiations but the labels couldn’t agree). The greed and hubris of their preferred strategy—selling SDMI copy-protected files and subscriptions through their own online shops—was doomed to failure. They were badly advised and not smart enough to see it.

From 1995 to 2010 Doug Morris was head of the largest Major label group, Universal. The record industry was his whole life—40 years of vinyl and 20 years of compact disc. In a 2007 interview for Wired he admitted he knew nothing about technology and didn’t know how to manage those who did (Steve Jobs came to the same conclusion when he negotiated the iTunes Store deal in 2002/3). Morris ran UMG when they invested tens of millions in Internet and copy protection ventures, he advised governments on the music business and (through the RIAA) sued filesharers. When he called the shots over UMG’s response to Napster he was 62 years old. He turned a deaf ear to customers and presided over the decline of the business, with the other 3 Majors. A few decades earlier they had dominated recording technology. Columbia Records (1948, vinyl LP) and RCA Victor (1949, vinyl single) masterminded a hugely successful format change and laid the foundation for the biggest market growth in recording history. But by the time CDs were introduced in 1982 technical leadership had moved to consumer electronics firms Sony and Philips and although the Majors pressed CDs for a few years even that job was finally outsourced.

(Now in his 70s and no more savvy about the web Doug Morris has moved from Universal to head Sony music.)

[sweetness]

If you seriously believe that's the only reason this band hasn't been able to produce more than one album in over 20 years you are in some major league denial

[sailaway]

*** The record charts tell us all we need to know about today’s record industry. The biggest artists are largely from past decades and megastar income is from world tours rather than hit records

[sailaway]

If you seriously believe that's the only reason this band hasn't been able to produce more than one album in over 20 years you are in some major league denial

No,I fully realize that denial is not simply a river in Egypt,but you can't ignore the overwhelming reprocussions of an industry in decline,other Recording artists having problems with labels,bundle this all up and blame it all on GNR.

That is a "shortcut to thinking" as Jim Morrison would have phrased it.

***** To Everyone Complaining about touring******

Live income up, recording income down

From The Economist A Change of Tune 5 July 2007

Seven years ago musicians derived two-thirds of their income, via record labels, from pre-recorded music, with the other one-third coming from concert tours, merchandise and endorsements, according to the Music Managers Forum, a trade group in London. But today those proportions have been reversed—cutting the labels off from the industry’s biggest and fastest-growing sources of revenue. Concert-ticket sales in North America alone increased from $1.7 billion in 2000 to over $3.1 billion last year, according to Pollstar, a trade magazine.

The best seats for The Police’s world tour this summer cost over $900; the group’s entire catalogue on CD costs less than $100.

What is the next Step for The Recording Industry?

Goodbye audio, hello multi-media

The record industry thought music entertainment was all about audio products, and for a while it was. Artists were simply part-time workers they could own full-time. Even the video boom of the 1980s was exploited as a tool for selling records. There are still some pure audio applications: radio, walkman, car and other background uses but the big radio/recording artist is history. Artists will always make records but not mostly records. Records are now the soundtrack for other products. Popularity will be fostered by multi-media exposure: cinema, TV, web and live performances. Radio is no longer king, the role of hitmaker has fallen to cinema, advertising and TV “talent shows”. Shy recording artists hoping to launch a career from their bedsit have never had a high success rate. In future things will be worse for them unless they collaborate with video, Internet or live performers.

Multi-media is not predominantly electronic or digital it’s about the whole experience (or 360° in a way the Major labels could never understand). People were multi-media before there was a name for it, and they still are. Now everyday technology is multi-media too.

[TeeJay410]

If Axl wants to put an album out, he'd put it out. He doesn't. I'm not entirely convinced he wanted to put out Chinese democracy. He doesn't have to go through the label, he could put his stuff out for free. How could do a radio head name your price deal. There are plenty of ways to get music out.

The buck stops with Axl. You don't even get a chance to deal with the label putting out the music until there is music to put out. It would seem the music isn't quite finished.

Or maybe Axl doesn't even want to put out an album. It's whatever. All I want to hear is the rest of the bucket head and finck cd songs and then I'm done with this incarnation unless they find some way to wow me.

[sweetness]

If you seriously believe that's the only reason this band hasn't been able to produce more than one album in over 20 years you are in some major league denial

No,I fully realize that denial is not simply a river in Egypt,but you can't ignore the overwhelming reprocussions of an industry in decline,other Recording artists having problems with labels,bundle this all up and blame it all on GNR.

and a whole lot of artists are recording and releasing albums just fine. Face it, an album is not a priority for this band right now, it's not a matter of "blame", they just aren't working on one. Nobody within the GNR camp has been able to confirm that an album is actually in the works, just a lot of "I hope we get into the studio soon"

[sailaway]

***** For all the Musicians on this forum,Resorces about The Music Business,Copyrighting,Marketing and DIY Distribution via internet,web site,etc****

For the rest-knowledge!

http://www.bemuso.com/sitemap.html

My link

[Ali]

If Axl wants to put an album out, he'd put it out. He doesn't. I'm not entirely convinced he wanted to put out Chinese democracy. He doesn't have to go through the label, he could put his stuff out for free. How could do a radio head name your price deal. There are plenty of ways to get music out.

The buck stops with Axl. You don't even get a chance to deal with the label putting out the music until there is music to put out. It would seem the music isn't quite finished.

Or maybe Axl doesn't even want to put out an album. It's whatever. All I want to hear is the rest of the bucket head and finck cd songs and then I'm done with this incarnation unless they find some way to wow me.

GN'R CANNOT put stuff out "for free" as you say. It just can't happen. They are under contract with UMG. Radiohead was able to do what they did because they were not under contract with a label.

It is that simple.

Ali

[sailaway]

If you seriously believe that's the only reason this band hasn't been able to produce more than one album in over 20 years you are in some major league denial

No,I fully realize that denial is not simply a river in Egypt,but you can't ignore the overwhelming reprocussions of an industry in decline,other Recording artists having problems with labels,bundle this all up and blame it all on GNR.

and a whole lot of artists are recording and releasing albums just fine. Face it, an album is not a priority for this band right now, it's not a matter of "blame", they just aren't working on one. Nobody within the GNR camp has been able to confirm that an album is actually in the works, just a lot of "I hope we get into the studio soon"

"A whole lot of artists" is Generic and nonstatistical.

You can't deny that the industry has some major issues.

And I do not fault GNR for not being specific,Some people here took the "Tentative" statement to excessive extremes,and flooded the internet with Drama.

[sailaway]

Some megastars were the result of investment by the Major labels but not many. The record industry has always signed acts people wanted to hear and helped them make records. That isn’t artist development, that’s the record business. U2, Radiohead, The Police, Coldplay, and almost every other monster act you can think of gigged and sold records from the start. Even the manufactured bands, from The Monkees to Atomic Kitten, were mostly developed by management or production companies not by record labels.

Looking across popular culture the record industry boasts few significant megastars. J K Rowling is worth several hundred Lady Gagas by any measure of popularity. Almost every other entertainment sector is bigger than music audio and that trend is never going into reverse.

The artist development argument is fundamental to the idea of 360º record deals. Artists might wonder how a declining Major label with practically zero Internet common sense can possibly justify taking a percentage of all their earnings. But to the Majors it seems only right—they “developed the artists” so they should share in live revenue and merchandise too. It seems preposterous to me. Most bands are gigging and selling T-shirts long before a Major label becomes interested. Today no Major label would even look at an artist who doesn’t already have a substantial following online, at gigs or from a TV show.

[Apollo]

Hrs what are you talking about.

Axl is not to blame for the lack of a new album. It is all the label's fault.

Look what they did to him last time. A lot of unfair expectations. Those greedy bastards kept trying to put deadlines on Axl to finish CD. They kept trying to force him to work with various producers. And they stopped giving him money. And then they expected Axl to actually go out and promote the album?

Jeez. That label is clearly in the wrong n

ow by not going out of their way to cater to Axl. What the label experienced with Axl on CD is the industry norm for all bands. All bands get over a decade and over 10 million dollars, are allowed to go through producers like water, and don't have to meet the deadlines of the people supplying the money.

Sure. Some bands are willing to play the label's game. And the end result is being able to share their music with their fans. But to some bands the "fans, music" aspect is a little lower on their importance scales. Bands operate differently.

If you have no knowledge of the topic at hand,kindly stay out of it and stuff the attempt at snarky sarcasm.

nice try sailaway, but it's obvious axl is the main reason for the lack of new music. greedy labels may be the devil for you, but every major band i know have a pretty good relationship with their labels.

You have no idea what you are talking about,do some research-talk less,read more.

Anyone heard of Tom Waits??

** Point: 'Corporations don't have feelings'**

"The record companies are like cartels, like countries, for God's sake," singer/songwriter Tom Waits says. "It's a nightmare to be trapped in one. I'm on a good label (Epitaph) now that's not part of the plantation system. But all the old records I did for Island have been swallowed up and spit out in whatever form they choose. These corporations don't have feelings, and they don't see themselves as the stewards of the work. They are making shoes, and then they want to go to the Bahamas and get a suntan."

He advises new artists to "get a good lawyer and don't ever sign away your publishing rights. Most people are so anxious to record, they'll sign anything. It's like going across the river on the back of an alligator."

Waits joined the artists' coalition in hopes of exposing the industry's shadowy business practices.

"Artists really do need to communicate and organize," he says. "Don Henley is willing to get a haircut and go to Washington. I'm all for that."

Rock veteran Henley, an RAC founder, is confident the movement will lead to significant change, despite reluctance by some artists to get involved.

"Newer artists don't want to rock the boat," he says. "They're still starry-eyed idealists and haven't been around long enough to be mistreated. Other artists simply don't understand the issues or are too self-absorbed."

A new artist's limited avenues fuel apprehension, says Marks, noting that such midlevel acts as Aimee Mann and Ani DiFranco are content to toil outside the empire, but "most artists want to hear their song on the radio, see their big-budget video on MTV and be on stage in front of 50,000 people. The major labels have access to radio and TV. If push comes to shove, you're being shoved off a fairly steep cliff

Listen.Here,sailway,how about. Keeping your juvenile petty grudges, to the attitude section.

D&N is a place for fans of the band to talk.

Everybody who disagrees with you in this topic you respond by insulting them. And of course you praise Ali. Funny how that works.

A couple of internet searches doesn't make you an expert on the music industry. And quoting a couple people/bands that have already made their millions of millions of dollars is a pretty weak arguement. Where were Tom and Keith when they were first getting started, and had no money? They gladly took the label's "deals".............and partnered with them to make and sell a hundred million CDs and put millions upon millions of dollars in their pockets. So they were willing to play the game until they got rich - and now they are not?

Bottom line - Axl doesn't get love from the label because of his past history. Guys like you simply choose not to mention that. Rather than dismissing people's points soley based on your own immature behavior does not make their points less relevant. And cherry picking a few veteran acts bashing the music industry doesn't mean the system is somehow against GnR.

Weird how guys like you think that everybody is out to screw GnR. You people think that there is a huge consipiracy against Axl, ranging from media to labels to promoters to fans on a forum. Are you capable of looking at ANY situation without throwing in your creepy Axl bias?

How many bands have gotten the backing that CD received?

How many bands were given the leeway of a decade to fork over a CD, that the label invested over 10 million dollars into?

How many bands were able to take that decade of support and more than 10 million dollars and NOT follow through on multiple deadlines? And to also constantly fire people that the label sent over to help?

And then when the album does come out, the major player decides to NOT do any publicity or promotion??????

But in your little world, the record company is wrong and Axl is right? HHmmm. OK, sure.

Let's see if you can answer those simply little questions.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Groghan

[sailaway]

If Axl wants to put an album out, he'd put it out. He doesn't. I'm not entirely convinced he wanted to put out Chinese democracy. He doesn't have to go through the label, he could put his stuff out for free. How could do a radio head name your price deal. There are plenty of ways to get music out.

The buck stops with Axl. You don't even get a chance to deal with the label putting out the music until there is music to put out. It would seem the music isn't quite finished.

Or maybe Axl doesn't even want to put out an album. It's whatever. All I want to hear is the rest of the bucket head and finck cd songs and then I'm done with this incarnation unless they find some way to wow me.

GN'R CANNOT put stuff out "for free" as you say. It just can't happen. They are under contract with UMG. Radiohead was able to do what they did because they were not under contract with a label.

It is that simple.

Ali

It is Ali,I honestly cannot see why people cannot or will not comprehend simple facts

[sailaway]

Hrs what are you talking about.

Axl is not to blame for the lack of a new album. It is all the label's fault.

Look what they did to him last time. A lot of unfair expectations. Those greedy bastards kept trying to put deadlines on Axl to finish CD. They kept trying to force him to work with various producers. And they stopped giving him money. And then they expected Axl to actually go out and promote the album?

Jeez. That label is clearly in the wrong n

ow by not going out of their way to cater to Axl. What the label experienced with Axl on CD is the industry norm for all bands. All bands get over a decade and over 10 million dollars, are allowed to go through producers like water, and don't have to meet the deadlines of the people supplying the money.

Sure. Some bands are willing to play the label's game. And the end result is being able to share their music with their fans. But to some bands the "fans, music" aspect is a little lower on their importance scales. Bands operate differently.

If you have no knowledge of the topic at hand,kindly stay out of it and stuff the attempt at snarky sarcasm.

nice try sailaway, but it's obvious axl is the main reason for the lack of new music. greedy labels may be the devil for you, but every major band i know have a pretty good relationship with their labels.

You have no idea what you are talking about,do some research-talk less,read more.

Anyone heard of Tom Waits??

** Point: 'Corporations don't have feelings'**

"The record companies are like cartels, like countries, for God's sake," singer/songwriter Tom Waits says. "It's a nightmare to be trapped in one. I'm on a good label (Epitaph) now that's not part of the plantation system. But all the old records I did for Island have been swallowed up and spit out in whatever form they choose. These corporations don't have feelings, and they don't see themselves as the stewards of the work. They are making shoes, and then they want to go to the Bahamas and get a suntan."

He advises new artists to "get a good lawyer and don't ever sign away your publishing rights. Most people are so anxious to record, they'll sign anything. It's like going across the river on the back of an alligator."

Waits joined the artists' coalition in hopes of exposing the industry's shadowy business practices.

"Artists really do need to communicate and organize," he says. "Don Henley is willing to get a haircut and go to Washington. I'm all for that."

Rock veteran Henley, an RAC founder, is confident the movement will lead to significant change, despite reluctance by some artists to get involved.

"Newer artists don't want to rock the boat," he says. "They're still starry-eyed idealists and haven't been around long enough to be mistreated. Other artists simply don't understand the issues or are too self-absorbed."

A new artist's limited avenues fuel apprehension, says Marks, noting that such midlevel acts as Aimee Mann and Ani DiFranco are content to toil outside the empire, but "most artists want to hear their song on the radio, see their big-budget video on MTV and be on stage in front of 50,000 people. The major labels have access to radio and TV. If push comes to shove, you're being shoved off a fairly steep cliff

And keep your juvenile petty grudges to the attitude section.

A couple of internet searches doesn't make you an expert on the music industry.

Bottom line - Axl doesn't get love from the label becuase of his past history. Guys like you simply choose not to mention that. Rather than dismissing people's points soley based on your own immature behavior does not make their points less relevant. And cherry picking a few veteran acts bashing the music industry doesn't mean the system is somehow against GnR.

Weird how guys like you think that everybody is out to screw GnR. You people think that there is a huge consipiracy against Axl, ranging from media to labels to promoters to fans on a forum. Are you capable of looking at ANY situation without throwing in your creepy Axl bias?

How many bands have gotten the backing that CD received?

How many bands were given the leeway of a decade to fork over a CD, that the label invested over 10 million dollars into?

How many bands were able to take that decade of support and more than 10 million dollars and NOT follow through on multiple deadlines? And to also constantly fire people that the label sent over to help?

And then when the album does come out, the major player decides to NOT do any publicity or promotion??????

But in your little world, the record company is wrong and Axl is right? HHmmm. OK, sure.

You don't dictate my behavior,if you have an issue w/me,report me.

I am citing specific internet sources and using quotes so people won't say I am pulling this out of my ass.

Unlike you,I stay informed and do routine research on subject matter I want/need to know.

Go get your attention fix elsewhere

[sweetness]

"A whole lot of artists" is Generic and nonstatistical.

You can't deny that the industry has some major issues.

And I do not fault GNR for not being specific,Some people here took the "Tentative" statement to excessive extremes,and flooded the internet with Drama.

I'm not denying the industry is changing, it always has been, and albums have always been able to be released despite these changes.

But sure, if it wasn't for the UMG EMI merger the follow up to Chinese Democracy would be on shelves already... believe that all you want

[Apollo]

Hrs what are you talking about.

Axl is not to blame for the lack of a new album. It is all the label's fault.

Look what they did to him last time. A lot of unfair expectations. Those greedy bastards kept trying to put deadlines on Axl to finish CD. They kept trying to force him to work with various producers. And they stopped giving him money. And then they expected Axl to actually go out and promote the album?

Jeez. That label is clearly in the wrong n

ow by not going out of their way to cater to Axl. What the label experienced with Axl on CD is the industry norm for all bands. All bands get over a decade and over 10 million dollars, are allowed to go through producers like water, and don't have to meet the deadlines of the people supplying the money.

Sure. Some bands are willing to play the label's game. And the end result is being able to share their music with their fans. But to some bands the "fans, music" aspect is a little lower on their importance scales. Bands operate differently.

If you have no knowledge of the topic at hand,kindly stay out of it and stuff the attempt at snarky sarcasm.

nice try sailaway, but it's obvious axl is the main reason for the lack of new music. greedy labels may be the devil for you, but every major band i know have a pretty good relationship with their labels.

You have no idea what you are talking about,do some research-talk less,read more.

Anyone heard of Tom Waits??

** Point: 'Corporations don't have feelings'**

"The record companies are like cartels, like countries, for God's sake," singer/songwriter Tom Waits says. "It's a nightmare to be trapped in one. I'm on a good label (Epitaph) now that's not part of the plantation system. But all the old records I did for Island have been swallowed up and spit out in whatever form they choose. These corporations don't have feelings, and they don't see themselves as the stewards of the work. They are making shoes, and then they want to go to the Bahamas and get a suntan."

He advises new artists to "get a good lawyer and don't ever sign away your publishing rights. Most people are so anxious to record, they'll sign anything. It's like going across the river on the back of an alligator."

Waits joined the artists' coalition in hopes of exposing the industry's shadowy business practices.

"Artists really do need to communicate and organize," he says. "Don Henley is willing to get a haircut and go to Washington. I'm all for that."

Rock veteran Henley, an RAC founder, is confident the movement will lead to significant change, despite reluctance by some artists to get involved.

"Newer artists don't want to rock the boat," he says. "They're still starry-eyed idealists and haven't been around long enough to be mistreated. Other artists simply don't understand the issues or are too self-absorbed."

A new artist's limited avenues fuel apprehension, says Marks, noting that such midlevel acts as Aimee Mann and Ani DiFranco are content to toil outside the empire, but "most artists want to hear their song on the radio, see their big-budget video on MTV and be on stage in front of 50,000 people. The major labels have access to radio and TV. If push comes to shove, you're being shoved off a fairly steep cliff

And keep your juvenile petty grudges to the attitude section.

A couple of internet searches doesn't make you an expert on the music industry.

Bottom line - Axl doesn't get love from the label becuase of his past history. Guys like you simply choose not to mention that. Rather than dismissing people's points soley based on your own immature behavior does not make their points less relevant. And cherry picking a few veteran acts bashing the music industry doesn't mean the system is somehow against GnR.

Weird how guys like you think that everybody is out to screw GnR. You people think that there is a huge consipiracy against Axl, ranging from media to labels to promoters to fans on a forum. Are you capable of looking at ANY situation without throwing in your creepy Axl bias?

How many bands have gotten the backing that CD received?

How many bands were given the leeway of a decade to fork over a CD, that the label invested over 10 million dollars into?

How many bands were able to take that decade of support and more than 10 million dollars and NOT follow through on multiple deadlines? And to also constantly fire people that the label sent over to help?

And then when the album does come out, the major player decides to NOT do any publicity or promotion??????

But in your little world, the record company is wrong and Axl is right? HHmmm. OK, sure.

You don't dictate my behavior,if you have an issue w/me,report me.

I am citing specific internet sources and using quotes so people won't say I am pulling this out of my ass.

Unlike you,I stay informed and do routine research on subject matter I want/need to know.

Go get your attention fix elsewhere

Lol, typical Sailway.

Refuses to answer simple questions. Instead just insults.

Only sees the world thru Axl Rose coverered glasses. Only agrees with those who praise Axl's every move. (Because lots of 50 year old men's lives are dictated by a rock singer!)

***************************

So questions for those of you who actually come here to talk about GnR and specific topics.

How many bands have gotten the financial backing that CD did?

How many bands were given the leeway of a decade to fork over a CD, that the label also invested over 10 million dollars into?

How many bands were able to take that decade of support and more than 10 million dollars and NOT follow through on multiple deadlines? And to also constantly fire people that the label sent over to help?

What more should the label have done? A couple more years, a few million more dollars, let them miss more deadlines, etc?

And then when the album does come out, the major player decides to NOT do any publicity or promotion??????

Please explain to me how those things aren't a MAJOR reason that Axl isn't his label's main priority?

[Ali]

If Axl wants to put an album out, he'd put it out. He doesn't. I'm not entirely convinced he wanted to put out Chinese democracy. He doesn't have to go through the label, he could put his stuff out for free. How could do a radio head name your price deal. There are plenty of ways to get music out.

The buck stops with Axl. You don't even get a chance to deal with the label putting out the music until there is music to put out. It would seem the music isn't quite finished.

Or maybe Axl doesn't even want to put out an album. It's whatever. All I want to hear is the rest of the bucket head and finck cd songs and then I'm done with this incarnation unless they find some way to wow me.

GN'R CANNOT put stuff out "for free" as you say. It just can't happen. They are under contract with UMG. Radiohead was able to do what they did because they were not under contract with a label.

It is that simple.

Ali

It is Ali,I honestly cannot see why people cannot or will not comprehend simple facts

Differing opinions is one thing, but in order to make valid points that contribute to a discussion, you have to know some of the basic parameters being dealt with. In this situation, one parameter is a contractual obligation to UMG.

Ali

[Apollo]

Ali,

Are you able to agree that the label investing over a decade and almost 14 million dollars into CD - along with Axl missing deadlines, firing multiple people, and refusing to promote the ablum - has a little bit to do with the label being leary on going through the process again with Axl? If you don't think that is a factor, are you aware of any other band, in the history of rock music, that had a similar story to the making/releasing of Chinese Democracy?

Or - do you think GnR would be in the same boat if CD had cost $2 million, taken two years and Axl had promoted it?

Or is it a big conspiracy against Axl, as Duff, Izzy, Slash, Adler, and even DJ are all able to put out albums whenever they want.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Groghan