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There was a Time - Taipei 2009


ChristianGNR

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Guest Broskirose

The ending bit of this song at this one performance could very well be my favorite live GnR moment to date. The screams, the solo, the last screams and the solo working well at the same time, the improv at the ending...absolutely gorgeous. I've always wondered why a solo like Bucket's TWAT translates amazingly well live and Robin's TIL doesnt.

I'll give you a hint. One of those solos is currently played by a capable musician. The other is not.

here.

:confused: Wow. That's just terrible. And people say that 2010 is the Holy Grail of Axl's voice? :unsure:

That was 2009 and it was the first show in 2 years.

Edited by Broskirose
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So Broski is telling me how DJ isn't a capable musican. Fuck it, I always thought that he'd be Axl's #1 guitarist... he simply couldn't translate Finck's This I Love solo into a live setting, it wouldn't work. The same applies for Bucket's Sorry, or Finck's I.R.S.... Or Finck's TWAT... or Finck's SOD... blame on Finck.

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So Broski is telling me how DJ isn't a capable musican. Fuck it, I always thought that he'd be Axl's #1 guitarist... he simply couldn't translate Finck's This I Love solo into a live setting, it wouldn't work. The same applies for Bucket's Sorry, or Finck's I.R.S.... Or Finck's TWAT... or Finck's SOD... blame on Finck.

That one extra bend in the solo is what it needed to make it translate into a live setting.

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Damn...and he couldnt figure it out. You disappoint me DJ.
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Yup, that's what happened on several shows back in the old days. And the whole band was a mess, not only Axl.

i'm not trying to start shit by any means here - and i like the end of this video, for what it's worth (just starts off sloppily) - but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were. when you're five dudes on stage, drunk, high, and god knows what else, the occasional fuck-up only adds to the atmosphere. when you're touring with an entire crew and blame your stage delays on making sure you can give the best quality performance you're capable of, and further blame it for stuff such as vocal warm-ups - then going out and being off-key and all that really isn't quite the same thing, is it? it's not really part of the 'vibe' of the new band at all, and i think that's why people are quicker to point out fuck-ups than they might be with the older band.

just sayin'....

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Yup, that's what happened on several shows back in the old days. And the whole band was a mess, not only Axl.

i'm not trying to start shit by any means here - and i like the end of this video, for what it's worth (just starts off sloppily) - but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were. when you're five dudes on stage, drunk, high, and god knows what else, the occasional fuck-up only adds to the atmosphere. when you're touring with an entire crew and blame your stage delays on making sure you can give the best quality performance you're capable of, and further blame it for stuff such as vocal warm-ups - then going out and being off-key and all that really isn't quite the same thing, is it? it's not really part of the 'vibe' of the new band at all, and i think that's why people are quicker to point out fuck-ups than they might be with the older band.

just sayin'....

That's implying that he wasn't late and giving the same excuses with the classic lineup.

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Well, when they started out, he wasn't. He couldn't afford to be, because they hadn't established themselves enough to convince clubs to let them show up 2, 3 hours past their gig times. That's why it's kinda funny, in retrospect - people consider those early shows to be the best, and those are the ones where they just kinda went out and did their thing on-call.

The band only started showing up late on the Illusion tour, not coincidentally when they began selling out stadiums; and even though Axl's voice was often coarse, and Slash occasionally came it at the wrong time with a riff or something, generally speaking they were a well-oiled machine. And they were still young enough, too, to get away with the sloppier stuff. When they had a technical glitch - like during YCBM at Rio - they pulled it off differently than, say, this video. That's my opinion.

Again, not having a go because I think the end of this video is really cool and I love when Axl does the outro screams - TWAT is one of my favourite GN'R tunes. But there's no denying the beginning is a little...off.

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Well, when they started out, he wasn't. He couldn't afford to be, because they hadn't established themselves enough to convince clubs to let them show up 2, 3 hours past their gig times. That's why it's kinda funny, in retrospect - people consider those early shows to be the best, and those are the ones where they just kinda went out and did their thing on-call.

The band only started showing up late on the Illusion tour, not coincidentally when they began selling out stadiums; and even though Axl's voice was often coarse, and Slash occasionally came it at the wrong time with a riff or something, generally speaking they were a well-oiled machine. And they were still young enough, too, to get away with the sloppier stuff. When they had a technical glitch - like during YCBM at Rio - they pulled it off differently than, say, this video. That's my opinion.

Again, not having a go because I think the end of this video is really cool and I love when Axl does the outro screams - TWAT is one of my favourite GN'R tunes. But there's no denying the beginning is a little...off.

I agree with that completely. Seems that he's always off for the first half of TWAT though. Luckily for me, the 2nd half is the reason I like the song and he always seems to do pretty good there. Wish they'd perform it more often.

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Yup, that's what happened on several shows back in the old days. And the whole band was a mess, not only Axl.

i'm not trying to start shit by any means here - and i like the end of this video, for what it's worth (just starts off sloppily) - but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were. when you're five dudes on stage, drunk, high, and god knows what else, the occasional fuck-up only adds to the atmosphere. when you're touring with an entire crew and blame your stage delays on making sure you can give the best quality performance you're capable of, and further blame it for stuff such as vocal warm-ups - then going out and being off-key and all that really isn't quite the same thing, is it? it's not really part of the 'vibe' of the new band at all, and i think that's why people are quicker to point out fuck-ups than they might be with the older band.

just sayin'....

Pretty much this. But age is a huge factor. I really can't think of any singer who can still hit those notes at Axl's age. Gillan, Halford, Plant etc. all have to sing lower or just end up sounding really bad. Bach takes really good care of his voice, though, he's obsessive with his vocal exercises. I think this is one of those times when it's excusable, but Rio 2011... :'( That was just heartbreaking to watch.

Speaking of off-key, while I thought Axl was unbelievable at the 2010 gigs I went to, I always thought it weird how he sang "I only wanted you to see things for yourself" from Better in the wrong key. But at the 2012 gigs, which I didn't think were quite as good, he always nailed that part (and generally sang Better, well, better).

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Pretty much this. But age is a huge factor. I really can't think of any singer who can still hit those notes at Axl's age. Gillan, Halford, Plant etc. all have to sing lower or just end up sounding really bad. Bach takes really good care of his voice, though, he's obsessive with his vocal exercises. I think this is one of those times when it's excusable, but Rio 2011... :'( That was just heartbreaking to watch.

Speaking of off-key, while I thought Axl was unbelievable at the 2010 gigs I went to, I always thought it weird how he sang "I only wanted you to see things for yourself" from Better in the wrong key. But at the 2012 gigs, which I didn't think were quite as good, he always nailed that part (and generally sang Better, well, better).

I dunno about age. Steven Tyler and Robert Plant and Mick Jagger have all lost a bit of range, but not much. They still sound like their older selves, for the most part. By comparison, Axl kinda changed the way he sings. He sings in a falsetto now, which I think he learned from vocal training as his 'regular' voice deteriorated. I remember someone who took vocal lessons once told me that their teacher literally used Axl as an example of how NOT to sing if you want to preserve your voice, because it tears apart your vocal cords. You can hear from Rio '01 that Axl really changed his singing style a lot, but the downside is that by singing in a higher falsetto he loses some of the power he had from the lower rasp. That's why I think his voice gets drowned out a lot by the music and stuff. It's just sort of common sense, y'know?

He's still capable of turning in fucking beautiful performances - not by accident, usually on the newer stuff, which was written for his 'new' voice - but yeah, I'm not really ever expecting him to sound like he did in 1991. By the same accord, I wouldn't expect him to be able to nail something like "Sailing" like he did in '06 back in '91, either! :)

That's part of the reason I want him to record more music. His voice doesn't quite fit all the older stuff anymore, and can sound strained. Why doesn't he try to write some stuff to take advantage of his falsetto? He's got a whole new range and on stuff like Sailing it blows people away!

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I always thought it weird how he sang "I only wanted you to see things for yourself" from Better in the wrong key.

It wasn't in the wrong key. It was in the correct key. He just sang it a little different to make it easier to sing. Changed the melody. Just like the IRS scream. Still in the same key, just different notes.

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I always thought it weird how he sang "I only wanted you to see things for yourself" from Better in the wrong key.

It wasn't in the wrong key. It was in the correct key. He just sang it a little different to make it easier to sing. Changed the melody. Just like the IRS scream. Still in the same key, just different notes.

My bad, my music theory knowledge is really limited/non-existent :P

Pretty much this. But age is a huge factor. I really can't think of any singer who can still hit those notes at Axl's age. Gillan, Halford, Plant etc. all have to sing lower or just end up sounding really bad. Bach takes really good care of his voice, though, he's obsessive with his vocal exercises. I think this is one of those times when it's excusable, but Rio 2011... :'( That was just heartbreaking to watch.

Speaking of off-key, while I thought Axl was unbelievable at the 2010 gigs I went to, I always thought it weird how he sang "I only wanted you to see things for yourself" from Better in the wrong key. But at the 2012 gigs, which I didn't think were quite as good, he always nailed that part (and generally sang Better, well, better).

I dunno about age. Steven Tyler and Robert Plant and Mick Jagger have all lost a bit of range, but not much. They still sound like their older selves, for the most part. By comparison, Axl kinda changed the way he sings. He sings in a falsetto now, which I think he learned from vocal training as his 'regular' voice deteriorated. I remember someone who took vocal lessons once told me that their teacher literally used Axl as an example of how NOT to sing if you want to preserve your voice, because it tears apart your vocal cords. You can hear from Rio '01 that Axl really changed his singing style a lot, but the downside is that by singing in a higher falsetto he loses some of the power he had from the lower rasp. That's why I think his voice gets drowned out a lot by the music and stuff. It's just sort of common sense, y'know?

He's still capable of turning in fucking beautiful performances - not by accident, usually on the newer stuff, which was written for his 'new' voice - but yeah, I'm not really ever expecting him to sound like he did in 1991. By the same accord, I wouldn't expect him to be able to nail something like "Sailing" like he did in '06 back in '91, either! :)

That's part of the reason I want him to record more music. His voice doesn't quite fit all the older stuff anymore, and can sound strained. Why doesn't he try to write some stuff to take advantage of his falsetto? He's got a whole new range and on stuff like Sailing it blows people away!

Didn't Led Zep have to play everything like an octave lower at the 2007 gig? Not knocking Plant, he's still got a great voice but he can't hit those high notes like he used to. Tyler's still pretty good but Jagger's been singing a lot lower for at least a couple of decades.

One of the finest Axl performances I've ever witnessed. The only show I've been to where I've been sure to download the bootleg. Listening to this on repeat meant I was a bit disappointed this year. My theory is that Axl did some damage during/after the 2010 tour (remember he had to cancel that Sao Paolo private gig on doctor's orders and he had to cancel the London private gig too). Fits with what you said about this style of singing damaging your voice, I guess in 2012 he's trying to preserve his voice and saving his rasp instead of going all out on it (I think the clean voice works better for songs like This I Love and the quieter parts of Better). On an unrelated note, Shackler's Revenge sounds much better in 2012 than in 2010 with the really low rasp voice.

Edited by Amir
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but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were.

Yes, but not when they didn't know what the fuck they were playing and that happened quite a few times. Some performances were too embarrasing - you're supposed to give your audience a nice show, they're there to hear you playing your songs properly, not whatever comes to your mind. There's a limit - they weren't the best performers but they were good when they were on. If they were seeing monsters on stage because they were too high - that's obviously fucked up and that reflected on their performance. That's not acceptable, that's unprofessional - and that's not the sloppiness you're talking about.

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Guest Broskirose

Yup, that's what happened on several shows back in the old days. And the whole band was a mess, not only Axl.

i'm not trying to start shit by any means here - and i like the end of this video, for what it's worth (just starts off sloppily) - but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were. when you're five dudes on stage, drunk, high, and god knows what else, the occasional fuck-up only adds to the atmosphere. when you're touring with an entire crew and blame your stage delays on making sure you can give the best quality performance you're capable of, and further blame it for stuff such as vocal warm-ups - then going out and being off-key and all that really isn't quite the same thing, is it? it's not really part of the 'vibe' of the new band at all, and i think that's why people are quicker to point out fuck-ups than they might be with the older band.

just sayin'....

first show in 2 years.

just sayin'....

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but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were.

Yes, but not when they didn't know what the fuck they were playing and that happened quite a few times. Some performances were too embarrasing - you're supposed to give your audience a nice show, they're there to hear you playing your songs properly, not whatever comes to your mind. There's a limit - they weren't the best performers but they were good when they were on. If they were seeing monsters on stage because they were too high - that's obviously fucked up and that reflected on their performance. That's not acceptable, that's unprofessional - and that's not the sloppiness you're talking about.

not being patronizing, but genuinely curious: what performances would you consider to fall into this category?

Yup, that's what happened on several shows back in the old days. And the whole band was a mess, not only Axl.

i'm not trying to start shit by any means here - and i like the end of this video, for what it's worth (just starts off sloppily) - but part of the charm of the old band was that the sloppiness was an inherent quality of how stripped down and basic they were. when you're five dudes on stage, drunk, high, and god knows what else, the occasional fuck-up only adds to the atmosphere. when you're touring with an entire crew and blame your stage delays on making sure you can give the best quality performance you're capable of, and further blame it for stuff such as vocal warm-ups - then going out and being off-key and all that really isn't quite the same thing, is it? it's not really part of the 'vibe' of the new band at all, and i think that's why people are quicker to point out fuck-ups than they might be with the older band.

just sayin'....

first show in 2 years.

just sayin'....

yeah; i was referring to generalizations about the new band. not this specific show. that was the entire context of my post. and i defended this performance in another post.

just sayin'...

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