Astrology in the GNR camp

[Howard2k]

You guys should make a 'crazy belief support group'. You could all get together to provide affirmations. You know, those Astrology believers. Christians. Scientologists. WBC members. Homeopthy users.

Your mantra could be "In spite of the complete lack of any respectable evidence in support of my beliefs, and in even in the face of logic and reason, I choose to believe anyway."

[sailaway]

You guys should make a 'crazy belief support group'. You could all get together to provide affirmations. You know, those Astrology believers. Christians. Scientologists. WBC members. Homeopthy users.

Your mantra could be "In spite of the complete lack of any respectable evidence in support of my beliefs, and in even in the face of logic and reason, I choose to believe anyway."

You and SM should get together,I think it could be love at first sight.

The shamanic journey is a method of exploring the spiritual universe, making contact with tutelary spirits, recovering energy that has been lost, or simply finding out more about ourselves and our purpose. It is also quite a simple practice. Anyone should be able to take a basic journey for themselves by following a few easy guidelines.

To take any shamanic journey, you need to find a time and a place where you can be alone and undisturbed for 20 minutes or so. Dim the lights or cover your eyes, and lie down on your back with your legs outstretched. Make yourself comfortable. Keep your right arm by your side, fingers straight, and the whole arm relaxed, then bending your left arm and placing it over your forehead so it shields your eyes. This is the classic posture for shamanic journeying. This trance posture comes from the Amazonian Jivaro people and was first described in the book The Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner, following his field research there. (1).

Most shamanic journeys are taken to the sound of drumming, which encourages a specific state of trance and "dreaming" brain wave patterns which take us into a deeper and more holistic experience of the world in all its fullness. You can either drum for yourself (although you will not be able to maintain the posture, of course), have a friend drum for you, or use a drumming tape to guide your journey. All are equally effective.

Expressing your intention - the purpose for your journey - and keeping this in focus is very important as you journey. Intention is the energy that guides the journey and ensures you do not wander aimlessly in the Otherworlds. So the next thing to do when you are lying down is to express your intention by putting whatever question or purpose you have into a positive statement of intent.

So, for example, the question "should I move to another part of the country?" could be expressed positively and definitely as: "My intention for this journey is to explore the outcome of moving to [whichever county or state has appealed to you]." This statement of intent alerts the spirits to your purpose so they can work with you more effectively. To put it another way, it begins to direct your energy and the energies of the universe towards your specific purpose. It also ensures that you do not get distracted, that you have a clear and definite purpose in mind.

As soon as the drumming begins, imagine yourself entering a place that will take you down into the earth, such as a well or a cave (for a "lower world" journey). Continue in your imagination until you reach your destination. The light of the Otherworld and the spirit guides will be waiting there to help you with your question. Remember to stay focused on your intention throughout and, if you lose your bearings at any time, focus on the sound of the drum and come back to your purpose again.

Once you are in the Otherworld, do not try to control or dictate the action that takes place or the information you receive. Just relax. Imagination is the bridge we use to cross to the Otherworld, but once we are there the spirits are our guides. All we need do is receive.

Drumming tapes have a special call-back signal at the end to bring you back to ordinary reality and normal consciousness. When you hear this, or when you yourself are ready, retrace your steps out of the Otherworld and come back to normal awareness. Then write down your thoughts and feelings as well as the answers to your questions so you have a record you can refer back to.

REFERENCES 1. Michael Harner, The Way of the Shaman (HarperSanFrancisco, 1979)

THE AUTHOR

Ross Heaven is a psychologist, author

[sailaway]

Find Your Sign in Chinese Astrology My link HERE

So,what are you? How accurate is it?

[November_rain]

According to that I am the snake:

The Snake is the wise philosopher and stealth personality of the Chinese zodiac. Physically attractive with flawless skin and flawless advice, the Snakes are the sages, psychiatrists and spiritual advisers of the zodiac. Quiet, 'accumulated strength' is the nature of their soul. Those souls born into Snake years are inclined towards abstract and aesthetic in life. Unusually gifted with deep intuitions, Snakes are uncommonly attractive, and the consummate philosopher and sage. Insight, compassion, subtlety, and discretion are the sum and substance of this 6th sign of the Eastern zodiac. The highly sensual Snake is possessive and needs an emotional partner who abandons themselves to feelings and passionate desire. The most harmonious time of day for the Snake is their own hours, between 9:00am - 11:00am.

[Nosaj Thing]

Earth Dragon

The powerful Dragon is the physically healthy, sentimental visionary of the Chinese zodiac. Outspoken, lucky and financially fortunate, Dragons show boundless energy and vitality. These proud souls do not like to be challenged, and their nature is that of 'unpredictability'. Egotistic, high-profile Dragons are assertive, boisterous, and showy. Successful and popular, this 5th sign of the zodiac produces excellent actors and are born to be in the public eye. Lucky, original enthusiastic, and healthy, the infatuate Dragon needs a strong and intriguing partner, or else they may opt to live a solitary life. The Dragon gathers strength during their own morning hours of 7:00am - 9:00am.

[SoulMonster]

Even Jim Morrison saw the concert experience as something sacred,an initiation,And at one time Jimmy Page owned Alistair Crowleys house,NIN did some recording on Cielo drive in the house that the Tate murder was committed in,(it has since been demolished)

So, spirituality and Rock music go back decades- to the crossroads if you are familiar with the Robert Johnson story,yeah that was technically blues,but- I'll find some further reading,and inspiring quotes to post

Heh, yeah, no one believed that rock musicians became rock musicians because they were intelligent. I bet superstition is quite popular among athletes, too.

[FuddMckagan]

The Dogs are the watchful worriers of the Chinese zodiac, and the champions of the underdog. The Dog is famous for complete loyalty toward their friends and loved ones, but intense ferocity towards the enemies of their loved ones. Anxiety, loyalty and protectiveness characterize the magnanimous Dog personality. Devotion, generosity, and perseverance are the cornerstones of the wary Dogs temperament. This 11th sign of the Eastern zodiac is earnest, sincere and faithful to those whom they love, but being plagued by wariness, can have a sharp tongue, and a tendency to jump to conclusions. Cautious and serious regarding love, the Dog needs a trustworthy partner who has strong family sympathies, and appreciates their tenderhearted virtues. Low on ego, high on soapboxes, the Dogs' fair-minded humanitarianism is legendary. Best time of day for Dogs is between 7:00pm - 9:00pm

Only about a mile off.

[sailaway]

Even Jim Morrison saw the concert experience as something sacred,an initiation,And at one time Jimmy Page owned Alistair Crowleys ho

use,NIN did some recording on Cielo drive in the house that the Tate murder was committed in,(it has since been demolished)

So, spirituality and Rock music go back decades- to the crossroads if you are familiar with the Robert Johnson story,yeah that was technically blues,but- I'll find some further reading,and inspiring quotes to post

Heh, yeah, no one believed that rock musicians became rock musicians because they were intelligent. I bet superstition is quite popular among athletes, too.

Jim Morrison had a tested IQ of 145-147,he read extensively ex: Nietszche,Blake,Rimbaud,Freud,had a roomful of books,could quote from any page from memory,and Graduated from UCLA.

Popular misconception that all musicians are stupid skippy,way to look dense and biased.

[sailaway]

Modern musicians are frequently believed to be stupid airheads who couldn't hold down any "real" job. But in reality, there are a lot of intelligent rock stars. Some musicians are even geniuses - and not just when it comes to music composition. These musicians are not only intelligent, they have also used their knowledge to get college degrees or in their secondary professions. Brian May: Queen

Brian May of Queen isn’t your average rock and roll supernova. He was named the 39th Greatest Guitarist of All Time by Rolling Stone, but he’s also great at something else – astrophysics. May graduated from the Imperial College of London with an honors degree in physics and Mathematics. He then went on to obtain a doctorate in both departments, when Queen exploded into rock and roll stardom. While he gave up his schooling for the band, he did not stop working with physics and published a few academic papers while in the group.

More recently, he printed a book entitled Bang! –The Complete History of the Universe in 2006. In October of 2007, he completed his Ph.D. in astrophysics. His thesis was titled A Survey of Radial Velocities in the Zodiacal Dust Cloud. The month after, he was appointed Chancellor of Liverpool John Moores University.

Source Greg Graffin: Bad Religion

Greg Graffin was an anthropology and geology double-major from UCLA. He went on to obtain a master’s degree in geology from the school and then earned a Ph.D. in zoology from Cornell University. Throughout this entire time, he was singing and touring with Bad Religion, a band he helped form when he was only 15.

Although he’s still playing with Bad Religion, Graffin also teaches Life Sciences at UCLA. He has also written two books, one a series of correspondences between himself and historian Preston Jones titled Is Belief in God Good, Bad or Irrelevant? A Professor and Punk Rocker Discuss Science, Religion, Naturalism & Christianity, the other is being released in 2010 and is titled Anarchy Evolution. According to a recent Twitter post, he is also be involved with an upcoming television series, called “Punk Professor.”

Source Image Via The Toad [Flickr] Milo Aukerman: Descendents

Anyone familiar with the punk band The Descendents knows of the nerdy caricature that has come to serve as the band’s logo. That drawing is based on the band’s lead singer, Milo Aukerman. Fans may also recognize the name of the group’s first album, 'Milo Goes to College.' The album was named because Milo was actually going to college at UCSD at the time.

His affection for learning caused the band to go on a number of temporary hiatuses while he returned to school. Eventually, Aukerman earned a Ph.D in biochemistry from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Even after graduation, the band continued the cycle of reuniting and separating as Milo kept returning to the band and then his career in biochemistry. The group is currently dormant, but with their history, most fans still hold out hope that Milo will come back soon.

Sources #1, #2 Tom Scholz: Boston

Tom Scholz is the founder and guitarist for a little band called Boston. But before he ever even started the group, he received a master’s degree at MIT in the field of mechanical engineering. He was working as a senior product design engineer for Polaroid when he decided to try his hand at rock.

After Boston took off, Tom created his own music technology company, Scholz Research & Development in 1980. In 1995, he sold the company to Dunlop Manufacturing, who continued to produce the company’s most famous product, the Rockman guitar amp. The amp was designed by Sholz himself and still is manufactured with his signature on each unit.

Source Dexter Holland & James Lilja: The Offspring

The lead singer and co-founder of the Offspring, Dexter Holland graduated as valedictorian of his high school before he moved on to college. He then moved on to USC where he obtained a Bachelor’s degree in biology and Master’s degree in molecular biology. When the Offspring took off, he actually left his doctoral program in Molecular Biology at USC in order to focus on the band. Unrelated, but also interesting, Holland is also a licensed pilot and hot sauce entrepreneur. His hot sauce, Gringo Bandito, has even been picked up by Albertsons.

Dexter isn’t the only smart guy who’s played in the band though. James Lilja played drums with the band for a few years before returning to his medical calling – in gynecology. If you thought it was strange to have a punk rock professor in LA, just imagine visiting a rock star gynecologist in San Jose.

Sources #1, #2, Image of Dexter Via Jack Shepler, Rock Music Review [Flickr] Philip Taylor Kramer: Iron Butterfly

After leaving Iron Butterfly, bassist Philip Taylor Kramer obtained a degree in aerospace engineering. He then began working on the MX missile guidance system for a US Department of Defense contractor. After that, he began working on facial recognition systems, advanced communications and fractal compression systems for CDs. In 1990, he opened a business, Total Multimedia, with Micheal Jackson’s brother, Randy, where they specialized on data compression techniques for CDs. Kramer also worked on a project started by his father that would discredit Einstein’s theories. Part of his research involved a transmission project that could result in communications that went faster than the speed of light.

His disappearance in 1995 sent conspiracy theorists aflutter and remained a complete mystery for four years. It started when he drove to the LA airport to pick up an investor who never showed up. Kramer then made a number of phone calls from his cell phone, including one to the police where he said, "I’m going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it." He was never heard from after this and the mystery ended up appearing on Oprah, America’s Most Wanted, Unsolved Mysteries and a Skeptic magazine article depicted the number of conspiracy theories surrounding his disappearance.

His body was finally uncovered in 1999, when photographers looking to shoot old car wrecks at the bottom of Decker Canyon in Malibu discovered his minivan with his remains inside. The death was officially ruled a suicide based on his phone calls made that day, but conspiracy theories still rage on.

Source Jeff “Skunk” Baxter: Steely Dan and The Doobie Brothers

The guitarist for such classic bands as Steely Dan and The Doobie Brothers is also a self-taught expert on weaponry systems. After a lengthy studying period at home, Jeff “Skunk” Baxter decided to demonstrate his knowledge on the subject by writing a five-page paper that proposed the ship-based anti-aircraft Aegis missile be converted into a missile defense system. After he gave the paper to California congressman Dana Rohrabacher, Baxter’s career as a defense consultant began.

In 1995, he was elected chairman of the Civilian Advisory Board for Ballistic Missile Defense, a position he still holds. Through work with that project, he was awarded consulting contracts with the Missile Defense Agency, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, U.S. Department of Defense, Science Applications International Corporation, Northrop Grumman Corp. and General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. He has also joined the NASA Exploration Systems Advisory Committee.

Baxter believes his unique way of looking at terrorism is what has allowed him to do so well in the industry, "We thought turntables were for playing records until rappers began to use them as instruments, and we thought airplanes were for carrying passengers until terrorists realized they could be used as missiles. My big thing is to look at existing technologies and try to see other ways they can be used, which happens in music all the time and happens to be what terrorists are incredibly good at.” Next time you're wondering if the country is doing everything it can to keep you safe, remember that someone nicknamed "Skunk" is on top of it. It may not help comfort you, but at least you might giggle about it.

[sailaway]

SMARTEST ROCK STARS EVER 3.42 Ranking created by l30_kas7ro

The stereotype of a rock star is commonly a boozed-up, drug-fueled, womanizing party animal just out to have a good time and rock out; never caring for much in the way of book learning. But stereotypes are never fully accurate. Many famous musicians are very intelligent and academically accomplished. Which rock stars, living or dead, have demonstrated they have the highest I.Q.s in the Music Biz?

Views: 8 494 | Votes: 32 | Comments: 3 | Favorites: 1 | Ratings: 7

Name Example Score*

Brian May Ph.D. in Astrophysics 68.41 (=)

John Lennon Anti-War message 39.40 (=)

Sterling Morrison Ph.D. in Medieval Literature 34.01 (+ 1)

4. Jim Morrison IQ of 149. Graduated Film School UCLA 29.16 (+ 2)

5. Frank Zappa Eloquent testimony during Senate hearings on music vulgarity 25.67 (- 2)

6. Bob Dylan Social Commentary in Songwriting 20.49 (- 1)

7. Tom Scholz Mechanical Engineering degree from M.I.T. 19.24 (+ 1)

8. Art Garfunkel Master's Degree from Columbia 17.78 (+ 1)

9. Tom Morello Harvard graduate 14.27 (- 2)

10. Dave Mustaine Won Celebrity Jeopardy by a landslide 13.95 (=)

11. Greg Graffin Professor of Biology at UCLA 10.93 (+ 1)

12. Dexter Holland Ph.D. Candidate at USC 10.10 (+ 3)

13. Gram Parsons Harvard Graduate 10.00 (+ 1)

14. Alex Webster Alex is recognized as an exceptional bassist in the death metal genre. 8.75 (- 3)

15. Huey Lewis Cornell Graduate 8.20 (- 2)

16. Sting Teaching degree from Northern Counties College of Education 6.45 (+ 5)

17. Paul Simon Attended Law School 5.31 (+ 2)

18. Maynard James Keenan Attended Kendall College of Art and Design in Grand Rapids. 4.79 (- 2)

19. Dean Torrence MFA in Design 3.43 (+ 1)

20. Rivers Cuomo Harvard graduate 3.43 (- 2)

21. Danny Carey Odd time signatures in his drumming. See 'Schism' for a good example. 3.02 (- 4)

22. Gene Simmons PhD in Education, teacher in years before KISS 2.91 (New)

23. Harry Chapin Cornell graduate 2.39 (- 1)

24. Sam Beam Professor of Film at University of Miami 1.56 (New)

25. Ronnie James Dio Lyrics of 'Heaven and Hell' or any interview on YouTu

[FuddMckagan]

SMARTEST ROCK STARS EVER 3.42 Ranking created by l30_kas7ro

10. Dave Mustaine Won Celebrity Jeopardy by a landslide 13.95 (=)

11. Greg Graffin Professor of Biology at UCLA 10.93 (+ 1)

12. Dexter Holland Ph.D. Candidate at USC 10.10 (+ 3)

13. Gram Parsons Harvard Graduate 10.00 (+ 1)

How did that rank him higher than a professor of Biology and a Harvard graduate.

[sailaway]

Fiv e Things Sc ie nc e Ca n’t Expla in

Written by Darren Hewer

Science has contributed innumerable benefits to human life on planet Earth. We should be deeply grateful for the hard work of scientists who dedicate their lives to loyal study of this discipline and the advantages scientific advances grant us.

Due to its success, there is often a tendency to think that science can explain everything. However there are actually many things that science cannot prove. Here are five categories of truth that cannot be proven using the scientific method:

1) Existential Truth: Science cannot prove that you aren’t merely a brain in a jar being manipulated to think this is all actually happening. (Think of something like in “The Matrix”.) It also cannot prove that the world wasn’t created 5 minutes ago with the appearance of age (and with fake memories in your head, and half-digested food in your stomach, etc). However it’s still rational to believe that our memories are true and that the world is real.

2) Moral Truth: Science cannot prove that rape is evil. While it is possible to demonstrate, for example, that there are negative physical or psychological effects of rape, there is no scientific test that can prove it is evil. Science can describe how the natural world is, but moral truth carries an “oughtness” (how things should be) about it that goes beyond what merely is.

3) Logical Truth: Consider the statement “Science is the only way to really know truth.” How could you prove that statement by science? It is actually self-refuting because there is no scientific test you could use to prove that it is true! Science cannot prove logic to be true because it assumes and requires logic in order for it to work.

4) Historical Truth: Science cannot prove that Barack Obama won the 2008 United States presidential election. There is no scientific test we could perform to prove it. We could have an investigation if we wanted to confirm that he did actually win, but the method for proving historical truths is different from testing scientific truths since historical truths are by nature non-repeatable.

5) Experiential Truth: Science cannot prove that your spouse loves you. When asked why so-and-so loves you, you may cite precedent (times when their behavior demonstrates their love for you) but this is a particular type of historical truth. There is no scientific test that can confirm a lifetime of experience of knowing a person.

None of this is meant to criticize science! There’s nothing wrong with the scientific method for testing the kinds of things it was meant to test. However, it would be a mistake to expect it to be able to test everything. There are more intellectual tools available to us than just science, and as the old saying goes, when all you’ve got is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail!

For the kinds of truth listed above, science is not deficient in any way; it’s just not the right way to find those particular kinds of truth. To try to do so would be like trying to ascertain whether a banana is tasty by sticking it in your ear and listening to it; it’s simply the wrong method!

There is one other kind of truth that cannot be proven or disproven by science. That’s because it is comprised of all of the other kinds of truth mentioned above mixed together: Religious truth. It does have a certain amount of overlap with science, when religion makes explicit claims about scientific fact, and when science makes explicit claims about religion. But the overlap tends to be rather small; in any case, true science and true religion, because they both aim to describe reality, can never be in conflict. (Read “Science & Religion: Conflict or Coherence?” for more on this topic.)

Why then does science often seem so straightforward and uncontroversial, whereas religion can be so difficult and contentious?

It may have something to do with a fact hinted at earlier: Religious truth is multifaceted. It is comprised of science, logic, philosophy, history, ethics, and experience, all mixed together. It is, in a sense, a different kind of knowing, not ignorant the other kinds of truths, but requiring that they be studied together carefully.

Rigidly applying the same methodology used for studying mundane things would be deficient when considering divine things. This shouldn’t be too surprising, considering that if God truly does exist, God is in a different category from every created thing that we can grasp and study under a microscope: God, unlike every created thing, is in the “uncreated things” category. Science, and each of the other kinds of truths, will have something to say about God. But none of these individually can tell us everything. All are necessary, but no single approach by itself is sufficient

[sailaway]

SMARTEST ROCK STARS EVER 3.42 Ranking created by l30_kas7ro

10. Dave Mustaine Won Celebrity Jeopardy by a landslide 13.95 (=)

11. Greg Graffin Professor of Biology at UCLA 10.93 (+ 1)

12. Dexter Holland Ph.D. Candidate at USC 10.10 (+ 3)

13. Gram Parsons Harvard Graduate 10.00 (+ 1)

How did that rank him higher than a professor of Biology and a Harvard graduate.

Don't think you want to match IQs with him,Everyone with a high IQ does not necessarily have or desire a college degree,look at Einstein's school difficulties. Many Geniuses are eccentric,not part of the herd.

[maynard]

Find Your Sign in Chinese Astrology My link HERE

So,what are you? How accurate is it?

holy shit, my sign has nothing to do with my personality. i wonder why. what a stupid belief. lol.

[sailaway]

Find Your Sign in Chinese Astrology My link HERE

So,what are you? How accurate is it?

holy shit, my sign has nothing to do with my personality. i wonder why. what a stupid belief. lol.

I'm a Tiger,I take it with a grain of salt,all depends on the individual that does your chart,the public ones are pretty generic,and often in error.

[SoulMonster]

Popular misconception that all musicians are stupid skippy,way to look dense and biased.

No one said all musicians are stupid...

[SoulMonster]

1) Existential Truth: Science cannot prove that you aren’t merely a brain in a jar being manipulated to think this is all actually happening. (Think of something like in “The Matrix”.) It also cannot prove that the world wasn’t created 5 minutes ago with the appearance of age (and with fake memories in your head, and half-digested food in your stomach, etc). However it’s still rational to believe that our memories are true and that the world is real.

Of course science can be used to determine whether you are a brain in a jar or not. The problem is just that since you are nothing but a brain in a jar with your cognitive senses controlled by others, you wouldn't be able to do the relevant experiments to test that particular hypothesis. The people controlling you, on the other hand, could easily use the scientific method to determine that you are, in fact, nothing but a brain in a jar. In other words, you will never be able to use science to answer that question. But that doesn't mean the question itself it outside the realm of what science can test.

2) Moral Truth: Science cannot prove that rape is evil. While it is possible to demonstrate, for example, that there are negative physical or psychological effects of rape, there is no scientific test that can prove it is evil. Science can describe how the natural world is, but moral truth carries an “oughtness” (how things should be) about it that goes beyond what merely is.

But 'evil' is just a word we have construed to signify malignant thoughts or actions. It is a construction not a real thing. Of course we can use science to prove that the majority of people consider rape to be negative, and hence the act must be considered "evil".

3) Logical Truth: Consider the statement “Science is the only way to really know truth.” How could you prove that statement by science? It is actually self-refuting because there is no scientific test you could use to prove that it is true! Science cannot prove logic to be true because it assumes and requires logic in order for it to work.

But why would we use science then to prove that science is the best method to obtain knowledge? Of course it would be wrong to use the same very method we are investigating in the investigation. Like I have said multiple times in this thread, the way to verify the fact that science is the best method to obtain knowledge is just to look at the amazing rack record of science vs. other methods, and then science wins on walk-over. So yes, science cannot prove that science is the best method, because it would be wrong to use the method in question for that specific hypothesis. In other words, the question is flawed. In addition, no one here has claimed that there couldn't potentially be better methods for obtaining knowledge than science which humans haven't discovered yet.

4) Historical Truth: Science cannot prove that Barack Obama won the 2008 United States presidential election. There is no scientific test we could perform to prove it. We could have an investigation if we wanted to confirm that he did actually win, but the method for proving historical truths is different from testing scientific truths since historical truths are by nature non-repeatable.

Now the author takes a way to popperish approach to science. But the author is also wrong. A lot of the evidence used in history, like archaeological evidence arise from experiments that are indeed repeatable, e.g. C14 data. So science can be used to establish scientific truths.

5) Experiential Truth: Science cannot prove that your spouse loves you. When asked why so-and-so loves you, you may cite precedent (times when their behavior demonstrates their love for you) but this is a particular type of historical truth. There is no scientific test that can confirm a lifetime of experience of knowing a person.

Of course science can be used to test whether your spouse loves you. You would just have to him/her to a machine that measures the physiological and biochemical patterns that signify love. Then you would get a right now answer to whether he/she loves you.

None of this is meant to criticize science! There’s nothing wrong with the scientific method for testing the kinds of things it was meant to test.

Science can test anything that affects the material world, and many people would say that includes everything that exists and is real.

However, it would be a mistake to expect it to be able to test everything. There are more intellectual tools available to us than just science, and as the old saying goes, when all you’ve got is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail!

For the kinds of truth listed above, science is not deficient in any way; it’s just not the right way to find those particular kinds of truth. To try to do so would be like trying to ascertain whether a banana is tasty by sticking it in your ear and listening to it; it’s simply the wrong method!

No, the author is patently wrong.

There is one other kind of truth that cannot be proven or disproven by science. That’s because it is comprised of all of the other kinds of truth mentioned above mixed together: Religious truth. It does have a certain amount of overlap with science, when religion makes explicit claims about scientific fact, and when science makes explicit claims about religion. But the overlap tends to be rather small

No, the overlap is rather large, unfortunately. It really depends on the religion of course. But let's look at a conservative muslims where religious dogma control and influence a major part of their lives: how they dress, what they eat, the finance system, their law, their approach to knowledge, etc etc. It is a grave mistake to believe that "Science" and "Religion" occupies non-overlapping spheres. Only a religion that didn't have any dogmas at all which would influence human behaviour and where it is thought that the god has no more influence on the world, would be a religion that wouldn't overlap with the material world (and hence the sphere of science).

in any case, true science and true religion, because they both aim to describe reality, can never be in conflict. (Read “Science & Religion: Conflict or Coherence?” for more on this topic.)

Err, if religion describes the material world then it is BOUND to come in conflict with science. Just take evolution as an example. Some camel herders from the bronze age thought the world was created in a few days - which probably was plausible enough back then - and yet here we are, thousands of years later, and a huge fraction of the world population still believe this ridiculous myth despite knowledge obtained using science.

Why then does science often seem so straightforward and uncontroversial, whereas religion can be so difficult and contentious?

It may have something to do with a fact hinted at earlier: Religious truth is multifaceted. It is comprised of science, logic, philosophy, history, ethics, and experience, all mixed together. It is, in a sense, a different kind of knowing, not ignorant the other kinds of truths, but requiring that they be studied together carefully. Rigidly applying the same methodology used for studying mundane things would be deficient when considering divine things.

Err, "religious' truth" are just a collection of things humans have come up with, usually from the top of their head with little to no basis in reality. That's why religion conflicts with science so frequently. I understand the author's desire to downplay the conflict by trying to construct different spheres or trying to make "religious truth" appear as something distinctly different than other types of truths, but it fails. The world is what it is and only the scientific method has proven to be a god method for understanding it. The test it simple: name some truths that have originated from religion?

Not "mundane things", but things affecting the material world, which, and I repeat myself, many would consider to be everything.

Not if those "divine things" affect the material world. Then is pretty straight-forward to use science to study that particular affect. It's like praying. If praying to "divine things" really work it should be possible to use science to study the affect of praying. And we have done that. The answer is that praying doesn't work. Another example is astrology which is supposed to tell us something about the material world (how our personalities are influenced by objects in the sky), and this fails too.

If "gods" are said to influence the world then that affect can be studied by science. Only a "god" that never manipulates the world, only a "dead god", can not be studied by science. And fact is, there are no signs in the world that suggests the existence of an active god. Everything in the world so far seems to be explained by purely naturalistic as opposed to supernatural means.

Everything points to "god" being a human construction.

[Howard2k]

Find Your Sign in Chinese Astrology My link HERE

So,what are you? How accurate is it?

holy shit, my sign has nothing to do with my personality. i wonder why. what a stupid belief. lol.

I'm a Tiger,I take it with a grain of salt,all depends on the individual that does your chart,the public ones are pretty generic,and often in error.

Oh, so it's not accurate then? You could almost say that there is a degree of chance in it being accurate?

[sailaway]

www.in5d.com/indigo-adult-characteristics.html

[SoulMonster]

www.in5d.com/indigo-adult-characteristics.html

https://sites.google.com/site/knowleastro/basics/astrology

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/aug/17/20030817-105449-9384r/

Edited September 17, 2012 by SoulMonster

[HisRoyalSweetness]

is this retarded thread still alive?

you two are the worst members of this community. hands down. bar none.

[SoulMonster]

is this retarded thread still alive?

you two are the worst members of this community. hands down. bar none.

Something is wrong with you, seek counselling.

[Nosaj Thing]

is this retarded thread still alive?

you two are the worst members of this community. hands down. bar none.

I'm with Sailaway in this one though.

Edited September 17, 2012 by pi2loc

[SoulMonster]

is this retarded thread still alive?

you two are the worst members of this community. hands down. bar none.

I'm with Sailaway is this one though.

You believe in astrology? Why?

[HisRoyalSweetness]

is this retarded thread still alive?

you two are the worst members of this community. hands down. bar none.

Something is wrong with you, seek counselling.

you're such a humorless turd. you'll actually spend hours and hours trying to argue with sailaway, a member of the forum who suffers from well documented mental health issues. i mean, look at the exhaustive pointless stupid replies you send back and forth. you're trying too hard to have a conversation you think is intelligent with a raving mental patient who's unable and unwilling to read these manifesto posts of yours. jesus fucking christ, man. let it go. it doesn't matter. not to us, and i suspect it doesn't really matter that much to you either. you can keep typing with schizophrenic like sailaway, but it where's it going? are you doing this for our benefit? you own? hers? what's the fucking point? so you can feel smarter than some anonymous crazy person on the internet? if so, mission accomplished. we all think you're waaaaaaaaay smarter than schizophrenic sailaway/warchild. are you fucking happy now? will you please shut the fuck up already?

at least sailaway's got an excuse. you? jesus christ. make friends with smarter people in real life. you don't need conversations like this one.

Edited September 17, 2012 by HisRoyalSweetness