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The Godfather vs. The Godfather Part II


Georgy Zhukov

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I think II is a better made movie, but 1 is the classic and one of the greatest ensembles ever put together. Even Francis' sister, he must have known how much of a whiny pain in the ass she could be and thought she'd be perfect as Connie (wonder if that a compliment or an insult to her at the time), and she prob. worked cheap.

It did get her in "Rocky", and she's more famous (and likable) for that one, in the sequels, she became less and less likable. She doesn't really do big movies, but when you're getting "Rocky" and "Godfather" royalty checks? Don't need to. Now that she's 65, she'll get plenty of Italian old lady roles.

It's a good case where the supporting actors were as important as the leads were.

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She didn't even need to do Rocky Balboa. Sly would have wrote her in if she needed money.

Agreed with the supporting roles. James Caan was brilliant in I and his scene in II was a steal. Robert Duvall's absence from III hurt the film IMO. That and Sofia Coppola. It was a good story but poorly executed. I hated the helicopter hit scene.

I can't imagine De Niro as Sonny. You know they wanted Caan for Michael Corelone if they couldn't get Robert Redford? Michael was suppose to be blonde as the book described him but Pacino blew Coppola away in auditions. Laurence Olivier almost got the role of Vito but pulled out for being ill.

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Guest Len B'stard

To me the Godfather movies are the story of Michael Corleone and each of them on their own feels incomplete but whole Trilogy nails down the saga perfect and it's best understood in that context.

I can't imagine De Niro as Sonny.

I fuckin can, did you see his screen test? brilliant, i'd've given him the role (which is probably why i'm not a film director :lol:)

Michael was suppose to be blonde as the book described him but Pacino blew Coppola away in auditions.

I heard that it was more his performance in The Panic in Needle Park (my personal favorite Pacino film, either that or Scarecrow) was what made Copolla go for him. I like the line that Copolla said that the role demanded someone with "the map of Sicily on his face"...and then you see that scene in the restuarant with Al Lettieri and Sterling Hayden (two fuckin' titans of the screen, absolute fuckin legends, especially Sterling Hayden) and it makes perfect sense somehow.

Brando is and forever will be Vito Corleone so it's difficult to sit here in 2012 and say what should have or could have been but it is my belief that Laurence Olivier could piss all over every fuckin' acting role ever in the world.

If we could get some kinda machine to fuckin' mesh Olivier and Brando together, you'd have the greatest acting Terminator in the fucking world.

Edited by sugaraylen
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Guest Len B'stard

No way could De Niro be Sonny. Sonny's just got that headstrong kinda arrogance to him that Caan just got down. I mean could anyone imagine anyone but Cazale being Fredo?

The idea is to divorce yourself from whats actually there and...i agree with you i can't see nobody but Jimmy Caan doing Sonny but thats only cuz the films so iconic, i mean, do you think this is a bad screen test:

I know it's not much but look at him, listen to him, he sounds proper like...y'know, of that creed, the gestures, the behaviour. And De Niro does headstrong arrogance real good, just check out Mean Streets, take away the dopey aspects of Johnny Boy the Mean Streets character and what you're left with, in terms of the bare bones of it is kind of like, similar to Sonny.

Got me on Fredo though, Cazale fuckin' batted that one out of the fuckin' Pavillion.

Edited by sugaraylen
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Brando and Olivier were the greatest actors in the world at the time. That was why Coppola wanted them. Olivier actually started preparing for the role, perfecting an accent and everything. Brando stepping into the role, putting the appearence of a bulldog and using a the voice was taken straight from Olivier's book. So what we had, was Brando mixing his training with Olivier's method of getting into character.

De Niro was mindblowing in the audition but no was was more suited than playing a younger Vito.

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Guest Len B'stard

Olivier in Wuthering Heights is one of the best performances of any fuckin' actor from anywhere ever that i've ever seen. Was watching Marathon Man again the other night and fuckin' hell, he nails that Nazi dentist character cold.

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Olivier in Wuthering Heights is one of the best performances of any fuckin' actor from anywhere ever that i've ever seen. Was watching Marathon Man again the other night and fuckin' hell, he nails that Nazi dentist character cold.

You ever read about his off screen interaction with Dustin Hoffman? Hoffman showed up on set after not sleeping for a few nights (mostly because he was partying) which got him in character and Olivier said "Why don't you try acting, dear boy? It's a lot easier."

He was brilliant in those films. He was by far the best of the old fashioned training. Mostly because his performances were more organic than most stage actors of the time.

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Guest Len B'stard

Olivier in Wuthering Heights is one of the best performances of any fuckin' actor from anywhere ever that i've ever seen. Was watching Marathon Man again the other night and fuckin' hell, he nails that Nazi dentist character cold.

You ever read about his off screen interaction with Dustin Hoffman? Hoffman showed up on set after not sleeping for a few nights (mostly because he was partying) which got him in character and Olivier said "Why don't you try acting, dear boy? It's a lot easier."

He was brilliant in those films. He was by far the best of the old fashioned training. Mostly because his performances were more organic than most stage actors of the time.

Yeah i have heard that quote and it's quite hilairious. There was a lot of that with the old guard and the younger more method generation, Henry Fonda had similar issues with it all. And, to take the side of the more classical actors for a moment, a lot of people thought the method was just about being every twitchy and saying "uhh.." a lot and shouting. Brando was exceptional in that regard in that he could do things both ways and be equally as amazing.

I remember reading that when they were doing Julius Ceaser either David Niven or John Gielgud was observing Brandos performance and he kinda was giving him pointers and polish-points, subtle ones and to his amazement the next day Brando came and nailed the shit doing exactly to a T every little pointer that he was given.

Another notable actor of that whole classical school was Trevor Howard.

I think Brando should've done Shakespeare onstage...or at least like, y'know, made a National Theatre for America thing although how well it'd kick off would be anyones guess but you feel that he felt sort of spare and didn't...feel he was offering anything to acting that was...substancial. I think that would've been good for him but alas you couldn't tell that boy anything by all accounts.

I think he even considered the idea but, i remember some comment he made like, if the Terminator is on one channel and Hamlet is on the other than the majority of the nation would watch the Terminator from which i can gather that if our viewing habits are anything to go by, we're addicted to garbage.

Edited by sugaraylen
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Olivier had issues with Marylin Monroe for The Prince and the Showgirl but they seemed to work out on screen.

Julius Caesar is a great example of old acting and the new method. How Brando became the champion of method when he held his own against James Mason and John Gielgud.

Speaking of which, Lee Strasberg, one of the pioneers of method acting was brilliant in The Godfather Part II. I don't believe he trained Brando, but he did train Al Pacino.

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Guest Len B'stard
Speaking of which, Lee Strasberg, one of the pioneers of method acting was brilliant in The Godfather Part II. I don't believe he trained Brando, but he did train Al Pacino.

Brando didn't like him, considered him a hawk. Loved Stella Adler though. Stainslavskys Method is all about finding something in yourself, a broad emotional parrallel with the character, which i always thought was like, a minute aspect of classical acting anyway. It's almost like a psychoanalytical deconstructing of a particular part of what acting is...but it don't think it was really anything different, it just freed a certain generations from previous misconceptions about the craft.

Edited by sugaraylen
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Anton Chekhov was instrumental the development of method acting. He wrote a play that was performed by trained actors who can do Shakespeare and Victorian plays but they had no idea what to do with the roles he wrote for them. The play was more successful when Stanislavski developed the method and with the newly trained actors the play was a success. Then Adler and Strasberg spent time with the Moscow Art theatre and developed their own version of the method and went to America to train.

De Niro was trained by Adler as well as Strasberg. He could give Brando a run for his money if his roles weren't reduced to mostly sociopaths when his more thoughtful, gentler roles went unnoticed.

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Guest Len B'stard

Anton Chekhov was instrumental the development of method acting. He wrote a play that was performed by trained actors who can do Shakespeare and Victorian plays but they had no idea what to do with the roles he wrote for them. The play was more successful when Stanislavski developed the method and with the newly trained actors the play was a success. Then Adler and Strasberg spent time with the Moscow Art theatre and developed their own version of the method and went to America to train.

De Niro was trained by Adler as well as Strasberg. He could give Brando a run for his money if his roles weren't reduced to mostly sociopaths when his more thoughtful, gentler roles went unnoticed.

Hi Mom i think, was an exceptional turn by De Niro. I agree with you that he would give Brando a run for his money but i think Brando trumps him simply because he could really step outside of himself and certain core mannerisms that De Niro couldn't. The mark of De Niro is very hard to divorce from De Niro performances whereas Brando could do something like The Missouri Breaks or Julius Ceaser where it's like, who the fuck is this guy?

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No way could De Niro be Sonny. Sonny's just got that headstrong kinda arrogance to him that Caan just got down. I mean could anyone imagine anyone but Cazale being Fredo?

The idea is to divorce yourself from whats actually there and...i agree with you i can't see nobody but Jimmy Caan doing Sonny but thats only cuz the films so iconic, i mean, do you think this is a bad screen test:

I know it's not much but look at him, listen to him, he sounds proper like...y'know, of that creed, the gestures, the behaviour. And De Niro does headstrong arrogance real good, just check out Mean Streets, take away the dopey aspects of Johnny Boy the Mean Streets character and what you're left with, in terms of the bare bones of it is kind of like, similar to Sonny.

Got me on Fredo though, Cazale fuckin' batted that one out of the fuckin' Pavillion.

It would've been interesting if Scorsese, DePalma, Kubrick, Spielberg or Lucas wound up doing "Godfather" and if their casting choices would've been any different, or if a current director worked with what was in the book and made it 1960s-1970s New York.

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Paramount had a lot of directors considered before they went to Coppola. The directors they wanted were Jewish but Robert Evans who headed the studio wanted an Italian American to do the film. Their first choice was Sergio Leone but he was tied up a gangster film of his own which became Once Upon a Time in America. Coppola was one of many Italian Americans (Sicilian to be precise) who do not like be associated with Mafia, as it gives Italian Americans a bad reputation. He decided to make it anyway since he saw the American Mafia as flaws in Capitalism. Coppola put the importance of family in the films as family is sacred to many Italian Americans, something previous filmmakers couldn't seem to have grasped. It was so important that he cast his sister, his baby daughter and his father co-composed the score with Nino Rota in Part II.

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