Who could possibly act as a bridge?

[DieselDaisy]

Niven wasn't managing when Axl took control. Goldstein was.

[Lim666]

"[...] They were drug addicts who didn't really want to concern themselves with the responsibilities of the band's business. It was also necessary for Axl to take control because of managers like Alan Niven.

Slash and Duff were in business 24/7 during the illusion shows!! they basically did near ALL the interviews and public/fan discussion.....not bad for addicts, huh?

your 2nd point aint working aswell as it was very much on Niven to make the band that big in the first place!

[m_rated96]

re: Naupis.

I don't agree that Axl's situation is purely hubris. Of course his personality is what caused the members to leave when they did. But he definitely never wanted Slash to leave, nor any of the other original members (bar Steven) and his Kurt Loder interview in 1999 showed that he was missing Slash's presence and really found it hard without him. He's even alluded to that same idea in recent interviews.

I think he was in a bad spot in his life in the 1990s, ended up alone and tried to push on. It's an enormous amount of pressure he was under, and his justification for using the GnR name in the forum posts is very reasonable IMO. re: being proactive and building a new Axl Rose brand - he evidently and self-admittedly has trouble writing.

Also, the "woe is me" card didn't appear until the mid-00's, well after Slash had been ripping on him for 10 years - Axl was basically a recluse until then. And I believe the Axl Rose name thief/megalomaniac/psychopath/manic depressive image would still be there whether or not he took the GnR name.

[Naupis]

And I believe the Axl Rose name thief/megalomaniac/psychopath/manic depressive image would still be there whether or not he took the GnR name.

The venom that exists towards his project would be 1/100th of what it is were it not called GNR.

I think on a good day you could even get Axl himself to admit that.

[machinegunner]

Niven wasn't managing when Axl took control. Goldstein was.

Ok. I appreciate your adherence to the facts but my point still stands.

"[...] They were drug addicts who didn't really want to concern themselves with the responsibilities of the band's business. It was also necessary for Axl to take control because of managers like Alan Niven.

Slash and Duff were in business 24/7 during the illusion shows!! they basically did near ALL the interviews and public/fan discussion.....not bad for addicts, huh?

your 2nd point aint working aswell as it was very much on Niven to make the band that big in the first place!

Even THEY have admitted that their minds weren't at their clearest during that period...

And about the interviews and fan discussion... I lived through it, I read every music magazine interview (one of my buddies' dad owned a newsagent) and that simply is so not true. Axl did most of the talking in most of the interviews. He was obviously the prime driven force of the band.

This is the kind of PR Slash and Duff would do for GN'R during the Illusions period:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Godsm3URqo0

All credit due to Niven for playing his part in many wins for GN'R... until he could no longer be trusted....

[ShadowOfTheWave]

And I believe the Axl Rose name thief/megalomaniac/psychopath/manic depressive image would still be there whether or not he took the GnR name.

The venom that exists towards his project would be 1/100th of what it is were it not called GNR.

I think on a good day you could even get Axl himself to admit that.

Don't be so sure. I can't believe the crap Robert Plant gets for not reuniting with Led Zeppelin. I've seen countless posts ripping him for playing Zeppelin songs live, even though he plays them in different styles and in a different key alltogether. People say he shouldn't play them if he won't play them with Zeppelin. Fans are under the delusion artists work for them, and get pissed when they realize they don't.

[Naupis]

And I believe the Axl Rose name thief/megalomaniac/psychopath/manic depressive image would still be there whether or not he took the GnR name.

The venom that exists towards his project would be 1/100th of what it is were it not called GNR.

I think on a good day you could even get Axl himself to admit that.

Don't be so sure. I can't believe the crap Robert Plant gets for not reuniting with Led Zeppelin. I've seen countless posts ripping him for playing Zeppelin songs live, even though he plays them in different styles and in a different key alltogether. People say he shouldn't play them if he won't play them with Zeppelin. Fans are under the delusion artists work for them, and get pissed when they realize they don't.

30+ years after the fact.

There was a long period where people were fine with it post break up and Plant was able to build his own career. It is not even comparable.

The shit storm towards him really only amped up after the reunion show in 2007.

Axl never had the benefit of that 27 year grace period that Plant did.

[DieselDaisy]

I do not see what is so un-trustworthy about Alan Niven. Slash and Duff had no problems with him and were not involved with his sacking. Also, Izzy, upon leaving Guns N' Roses in November 1991, re-hired Niven as manager for the Ju Ju Hounds. Only in Axl's delusional brain does there exist a problem with Alan Niven's accountability.

From 1992, Axl Rose literally stopped doing interviews. Therefore, by default, every interview henceforward was done by Slash and Duff (and Matt and Gilby). In my opinion Slash did the most interviews. By the way I have hundreds of televised interviews which I taped over the years (I have copied them onto DVD now) and tons of interviews and articles I have collected.

[Lim666]

Slash and Duff did mainly all the interviews during illusion period - when Axl made like 1-2 each year. slash was all over the place for GN'R, thats a fact and i lived it aswell. stoned, not stoned....they've made it! Axl didnt do it.

[m_rated96]

I do not see what is so un-trustworthy about Alan Niven. Slash and Duff had no problems with him and were not involved with his sacking. Also, Izzy, upon leaving Guns N' Roses in November 1991, re-hired Niven as manager for the Ju Ju Hounds. Only in Axl's delusional brain does there exist a problem with Alan Niven's accountability.

From 1992, Axl Rose literally stopped doing interviews. Therefore, by default, every interview henceforward was done by Slash and Duff (and Matt and Gilby). In my opinion Slash did the most interviews. By the way I have hundreds of televised interviews which I taped over the years (I have copied them onto DVD now) and tons of interviews and articles I have collected.

that's awesome, man would I kill for those! if you ever get a spare 5 hours...mediafire them..?

[DieselDaisy]

You are asking somebody who is not that good on computers and technology there!

Most of my stuff is from UK television (e.g. lots of Illusion tour reports) as well as just about everything that was on MTV 1987-93. I have one when the band were playing Greece (1993) and they have hired out a boat and are sailing in the Med - the report is actually from the boat itself in the middle of the sea. I also have this stuff from Japanese television from 1987 - the band (Adler, Duff and Slash) are completely blotto on booze. But even then there is, no Axl. I have a feeling that, you had to sort of pre-book Axl and then there was always a chance that he wouldn't show. In contrast, Slash, Duff and Adler (and later, Matt and Gilby) were always on hand.

Even more elusive than Axl is Izzy. Out of all of the interview footage I have, there must be about 1 mins of Izzy speaking (he is on the Robert John doc)!

[machinegunner]

Slash and Duff did mainly all the interviews during illusion period - when Axl made like 1-2 each year. slash was all over the place for GN'R, thats a fact and i lived it aswell. stoned, not stoned....they've made it! Axl didnt do it.

I do not see what is so un-trustworthy about Alan Niven. Slash and Duff had no problems with him and were not involved with his sacking. Also, Izzy, upon leaving Guns N' Roses in November 1991, re-hired Niven as manager for the Ju Ju Hounds. Only in Axl's delusional brain does there exist a problem with Alan Niven's accountability.

From 1992, Axl Rose literally stopped doing interviews. Therefore, by default, every interview henceforward was done by Slash and Duff (and Matt and Gilby). In my opinion Slash did the most interviews. By the way I have hundreds of televised interviews which I taped over the years (I have copied them onto DVD now) and tons of interviews and articles I have collected.

Thank you for clarifying that this was during the UYI period. Because in the 1992 music scene it was prudent for gn'r NOT to do a lot of interviews by then. It's called overexposure. Axl certainly made sure he had his say in interviews ON THE WAY UP. There wasn't much need to say much more after 1992. In fact the fans (GN'R fans and music fans in general) by and large were fed up with the self-indulgent antics like that exhibited by Slash and Duff drunk at the AMA awards... it was embarrassing. It's not cool to be stupid. No wonder there was such hard backlash against GN'R...

[DieselDaisy]

During the majority of interviews I own, Slash carries himself well. Duff was of course completely drunk during the whole period (particularly the Illusion period) but Slash can usually string together a lucid reply. He is actually very well spoken, Slash. The award show you mentioned is an exception. I also have drunk interviews from Japanese tv (1987) and other escapades, but, in general, it is surprising how coherent Slash could be during his tenure in GN'R.

Following your logic (that Axl's decision to not agree to interviews was a good one), I am not sure I would have wanted the whole band to shut up shop and cease interviews!! I completely disagree with you here: there were actually a lot of interesting things to say during the Illusion period and I enjoyed watching Slash and Duff whenever they were interviewed on television.

I also disagree with you about fans being putoff by Slash and Duff's lifestyle. GN'R were a rock n' roll band who sung about 'Nightrain'. They were no different from their heroes (The Stones, Aerosmith, Pistols) here. And besides, award shows are stuffy corporate occasions.

Edited May 15, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Lim666]

@machinegunner:
you're just trying to discredit the classic band members, you're acting like a typical new Axl fan. you were simply wrong with your arguments. its a fact that Slash and Duff did about everything to get the band rolling, Slash did soooo much for Guns, he was living it. And Niven was very smart to handle GN'R business until Axl went in full control mode.

[machinegunner]

Following your logic (that Axl's decision to not agree to interviews was a good one), I am not sure I would have wanted the whole band to shut up shop and cease interviews!! I completely disagree with you here: there were actually a lot of interesting things to say during the Illusion period

I didn't suggest that I think they shouldn't have done ANY more interviews...

I also disagree with you about fans being putoff by Slash and Duff's lifestyle.

I also didn't say THAT. Although I do happen to think they were! Not just the lifestyle but the ongoing and constant harping on about it to show how cool and rock n' roll they evidently thought it was to be a decadent fuck-up and all that by certain band members (and posing in pictures accordingly). It was alright when it was a page or two in Circus magazine or Hit Parader, Rip, etc, when it was fashionable as part of the LA strip sub-culture of 1985-87 and all that, but I don't think it endeared them to readers of broader music magazines like Rolling Stone and others later and in the Illusions period so much as time went by...

Edited May 15, 2013 by machinegunner

[DieselDaisy]

You praised Axl for retiring from interviews in 1992 (the possible element of, 'overexposure'); the logical extension of that argument is, Slash and Duff should have also retired. Personally, I enjoyed their interviews and missed Axl's voice during the lean years of 1993-99. I still do think Axl should agree to more interviews.

And it is such a shame that Slash and Duff never endeared themselves to the readers of Rolling Stone! Who cares about RS?

You sound like a puritan. I think you picked the wrong band if you are an advocate of clean living! U2 or Coldplay might be a better band to be a fan of.

[m_rated96]

machinegunner i think your point is either revisionism or a bit irrellevant. I think it's absurd to argue that Axl consciously stopped doing interviews to prevent overexposure - it's pretty clear it was for other reasons. your point that overexposure is bad for a band might have truth to it, but its not the issue here as it didn't happen.

The question is, who is the bigger douchebag - Axl or Slash? I think the simple answer is Axl was a bigger dick to begin with (1992-1995), but he's paid for it plus alot more over the last the 20 years through Slash's destruction of his image (not on purpose, just through kind of naively ripping on him) & if Slash ever wants to cross the bridge this is something he should probs. acknowledge

Edited May 15, 2013 by m_rated96

[izzydoezit]

so to get back on topic. who could act as a bridge?

[DieselDaisy]

I think Axl gave his reason for retiring from interviews circa 1991-2. It was the usual victimisation stuff, the press lying and making up stuff - NB, Get in the Ring. It had nothing to do with, fear of over-exposure!

[machinegunner]

^

Like he couldn't call up Kurt Loder or other people that he CAN trust to put out an interview at any time! So he didn't need or want to do any more interviews at that point, so what? Who said it was "fear"... give it up.

But then, the way you've twisted the content of my posts around, not sure i can really accept you as a very objective source at face value. You *think*....

Edited May 15, 2013 by machinegunner

[m_rated96]

so to get back on topic. who could act as a bridge?

duff? for some reason i feel like no person could 'bridge' them. The only way would be Slash calling Axl like 6 times

[DieselDaisy]

^

Like he couldn't call up Kurt Loder or other people that he CAN trust to put out an interview at any time! So he didn't need or want to do any more interviews at that point, so what? Who said it was "fear"... give it up.

But then, the way you've twisted the content of my posts around, not sure i can really accept you as a very objective source at face value. You *think*....

Axl's dislike of the media has been well documented (in none more so that 'Get in the Ring'). I have highlighted certain sections in bold.

I want the real story. I never wanted "Steven Adler's on vacation." I wanted "Steven Adler's in a fucking rehab."...I wanted the reality. Maybe I'd like it a bit optimistic, but I've always been more into the reality of the situations, because that's what I wanted to read about the band. I can see where it would look like we just wanted everything to be right about us. But it was also trying to find a way to work with certain metal magazines. There are a lot of kids who collect those, and we'd rather they have real stories than bullshit stories. I haven't done an interview with Hit Parader or Circus in three or four years.

And it's not that what they print is so bad. It's just that when someone puts corny little words in that you didn't say ... like Slash saying something about "Well, we're gonna just shake it up and see what happens." Slash would never say that, and it made him feel really dorky. Looking back at it and reading it, it may not be that bad. But we know that we would've come off a lot better if it had been what we really said. I think I've got a pretty good track record of not lying.

- Axl, RS, 1992.

Edited May 15, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[machinegunner]

Yes, it's well known... for good reason, too! He is not unique in that respect. Re: being misinterpreted -- I also recall that he once pointed out that the English are always taking the piss and that their sense of humour is lost on fans from other countries.

The point there about leaving those genre-specific magazines behind supports what I said about them needing to go beyond and come across ok to magazines with broader audiences. Like it or not (because you dismissed it earlier, and I agree it really sucks NOW), back then at least, a cover story in Rolling Stone magazine meant a lot.

[machinegunner]

Freddie Mercury did very, very few interviews in his life. And not very extensive ones, either. If you're spilling your guts every couple of weeks nobody cares.