Do you think the Chinese Democracy Tour will finally end in India or will it continue on?

[Rustycage]

Sigh. GNR doesn't have a trend of producing an album quickly anymore. Trends point to Metallica releasing yet another album before GNR.

[izzydoezit]

You are confused. I understand. Facts are facts indeed.

Metallica 4 original material albums

Axl 1 original material album

Metallica gathered up a lot of material and they could manage setlists with variety. Not songs from the same pool of material since 2001.

GNR has played DOZENS AND DOZENS of songs since 2001. Plenty of variety. Lots of new material added to the "pool" since 2001.

can you name those ?

[SoulMonster]

Yes, yes, insist on "reliably been in the set" to mean "played on every show" to gloss over the fact that you were wrong

You listed songs that were removed for entire tours dude. You can't win this one.

Which songs?

[SoulMonster]

Yes, yes, insist on "reliably been in the set" to mean "played on every show" to gloss over the fact that you were wrong

You listed songs that were removed for entire tours dude. You can't win this one.

Which songs?

since you're the setlist expert (and admittedly, probably the 2nd most knowledgeable here on this subject behind me), i'll enjoy more if i make you obsessively research. i think you'll be shocked at how many shows there have been since 2001 without madagascar or rocket queen or others, just as an example.

Heh, I have already been through this in my list from before in this very thread. 'Rocket Queen' was played on almost every show in every year except in 2006 and 2007 when it was played but not as frequently. 'Madagascar' has been played in the great majority of shows in every year, but less frequently in 2006 and 2012. This doesn't require "obsessively research" from my side, I extract the numbers with a key stroke. Come on now, which songs were "removed for entire tours"?

[SoulMonster]

So how could you possibly list a song as being reliably played from 2001 until 2012 if there are multiple years in between where it wasn't reliably played?!?!?! Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds?

Fantastic. Just fantastic. May I remind you we are talking about "reliably been in the set", not "reliably having been played in each and every years regardless of whether the band has been touring that year or not".

If we are to adopt your hilarious decision that a song has not "reliably been in the set" if the band didn't tour for some years at all and hence didn't play ANY songs, then the number of songs that fit the criteria is not 14 as I claim, nor 10 as you claim, but 0.

[izzydoezit]

You are confused. I understand. Facts are facts indeed.

Metallica 4 original material albums

Axl 1 original material album

Metallica gathered up a lot of material and they could manage setlists with variety. Not songs from the same pool of material since 2001.

GNR has played DOZENS AND DOZENS of songs since 2001. Plenty of variety. Lots of new material added to the "pool" since 2001.

can you name those ?

If I take the time to name them, will you reconsider your position that the sets have been the same since 2001?

are you lying again?

[SoulMonster]

So how could you possibly list a song as being reliably played from 2001 until 2012 if there are multiple years in between where it wasn't reliably played?!?!?! Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds?

Fantastic. Just fantastic. May I remind you we are talking about "reliably been in the set", not "reliably having been played in each and every years regardless of whether the band has been touring that year or not".

If we are to adopt your hilarious decision that a song has not "reliably been in the set" if the band didn't tour for some years at all and hence didn't play ANY songs, then the number of songs that fit the criteria is not 14 as I claim, nor 10 as you claim, but 0.

No no no, don't try to confuse the issue. You listed songs as being reliably played from 2001 until 2012 even though there were multiple years during that time where the band was on tour and not reliably playing the song. That is ridiculous and you know it, which is why you're not trying to change the argument.

From 2001 until now, there have been 10 songs that have remained staples through every leg of every tour. The 10 that I listed. Eager to finally prove me wrong about something, you jumped the gun and tried to expand the list, later realizing you'd included songs that hadn't been staples the whole time. Now you're backpedaling.

No, I seriously thought you were desperately trying to avoid the issue of having to name more songs that you believed haven't been reliably in the set by the fantastic argument that these songs weren't played in, say, 2002 and 2003 .

I still stand with the list of 14. These 14 songs have reliably been played in every year since 2001. Still waiting for you to name the four that haven't. But of course, it will just end with this:

I guess it will boil down to how we define "reliably stuck around" ..

[Apollo]

All I can add to this debate is that I can't wait for GnR to release new music!!!!

[Rustycage]

90% is pretty reliable.

[izzydoezit]

:nervous:

[SoulMonster]

Of course it boils down to how we define "reliably stuck around."

I define it as the ten songs that have been played almost every night since the band returned in 2001. Meanwhile, you're trying to include songs that were taken out of the set for stretches and brought back later on. That is completely illogical.

It is not illogical if the stretches are "sufficiently short". Even you have some trade-off value for your 10 because not one of them have been played at every show and hence must have been absent occasionally. All 14 songs from my list have been played so frequently in each and every year that I find their presence "reliable" although not "certain" at all. With a stricter trade-off my list would grow smaller.

[SoulMonster]

So there is no song that's been played at every show from 2001 until now? Thanks for further proving my point that it hasn't been the same set all these years.

I'd like to say I tricked you, but I was just directly wrong. 'Sweet Child O' Mine" has been played for each and every show from 2001 till today. That's the only song.

I don't think your point needs further proving, it is rock solid and only people very ignorant of GN'R history would disagree with you.

[SoulMonster]

So why did you allow yourself to be one of those people that argues with me even though they agree with me? How do you think that reflects on you?

Err, I agree with your point that the setlists have been different (this is one of my own pet peeves here, which I am sure you know), but that doesn't mean that I should sit idly by when you post things I disagree with as a way of proving your point. I prefer it when you prove your point without resorting to exaggerations. And in this case it really isn't necessary, even if 14 songs have been reliably played, it still leaves a lot of room for variation when we know the setlists lengths have gone from 18 songs per show (in 2001) to more than 23 in 2012. Perhaps I just have a more stringent relationship with the truth than you?

Edited November 21, 2012 by SoulMonster

[wasted]

Set list is definitely better. Couple new covers more CD songs. Estranged Civil War.

[DieselDaisy]

MSL has been found out. New gnr have played the same 13-14 songs since 2001

[Tyler Drama]

July 29, 2006 – Wembley Arena, London, England

"Welcome to the Jungle"

"It's So Easy"

"Mr. Brownstone"

"Live and Let Die"

"Sweet Child o' Mine"

"Knockin' on Heaven's Door"

"Street of Dreams (The Blues)"

"Better"

"You Could Be Mine"

"Out ta Get Me"

"Sway"

"Sailing"

"Back in the U.S.S.R."

"Think About You"

"My Michelle"

"Patience"

"November Rain"

"Rocket Queen"

"Nightrain"

"I.R.S."

"Paradise City"

Jungle, ISE, MB, LALD, SCOM, KOHD, SOD, YCBM, P, NR, RQ, N, PC.

13 more songs from a 2006 that were present in 2001 and are still present in 2012. Should I continue?

Did they seriously play three covers in a row?

[wasted]

Sway, Sailing, Back in the USSR. Amazing.

[SoulMonster]

daisy, if songs are removed and later brought back, that is not the same as them staying in the set year after year. only 10 songs have remained constants in the post slash era.

And again it all boils down to what we mean with "reliably stuck around" . But now we are just going in circles so I will end this now.

[SoulMonster]

soul monster, are you able to go through your database and figure out which songs have never been skipped more than once in a year GNR played shows since the band returned in 2001?

Yes.

[SoulMonster]

are you willing to?

Uhm, sure, but can't you just extract that information from your amazing brain? After all, I am only the "2nd most knowledgeable here on this subject behind [you]" . Nah, I am just pulling your leg, you can take it, you are a big boy.

Songs that were never skipped more than once in each year from 2001 to 2012:

2001: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, ISE, LALD, YCBM, RQ, OTGM, SOD, MM, CD, TAY, Silkworms, OMG, Patience, NR, Nightrain and Maddy.

2002: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, ISE, LALD, YCBM, RQ, OTGM, SOD, TAY, Patience, NR and Maddy.

2006: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, SOD, TAY, Patience, NR and Nightrain.

2007: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, ISE, LALD, YCBM, OTGM, MM, Better, SOD, TAY, Patience, I.R.S., CD, NR and Nightrain.

2009: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, ISE, LALD, YCBM, Better, SOD, I.R.S., Shackler's, CD, RQ, ITW, My Generation, TWAT, Sorry, TIL and NR.

2010: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, ISE, SOD and Nightrain.

2011: WTTJ, MB, PC, SCOM, KOHD, ISE, LALD, YCBM, SOD, DC, CD, RQ, ITW, Estranged, Sorry, TIL and NR.

I believe this to be correct. Do you want me to add teh status so far for 2012?

[SoulMonster]

so with all of the songs that have been rotated in and out since 2001, why do you think there are still so many people here that insist it's been the same exact set for 11 years?

I think a lot of them doesn't mean it literally, they are just sloppy writers. Then there are some that genuinely believe the sets have been the same all these years, these guys are sloppy thinkers. Then we have a few who says it just to rile people up because they somehow is willing to appear stupid in order to cupcake. At least, this is my opinion.

[SoulMonster]

how many songs do you think GNR has played live since slash left that weren't played on 01/01/01? 30? 40?

Better, Don't Cry, Civil War, Estranged, Sorry, This I Love, Used To Love Her, You're Crazy, Whole Lotta Rosie, I.R.S., Shackler's Revenge, Motivation, Mama Kin, Nice Boys, Riff Raff, 14 Years, Glad To Be Here, If The World, Dead Flowers, My Generation, Liquor And Whores, Scraped, Down On The Farm, Sonic Reducer, Catcher In The Rye, There Was A Time, You Gotta Move, Sway, Sailing, Prostitute, Back In The USSR, Don't Let It Bring You Down, The Seeker and Objectify. That would be 35 songs?

[DieselDaisy]

daisy, if songs are removed and later brought back, that is not the same as them staying in the set year after year. only 10 songs have remained constants in the post slash era.

I have produced three setlists - from 2001, 2006, 2012 - with the same thirteen extent songs.

[wasted]

I think people think it's the same set list because they see the main stays Jungle, Easy, Brown all of them etc. Then some new ones are dotted about, some have come and gone.

For me I saw them in 91. (Wembley)

2001/2 (Leeds)

Then in 2009. (Taipei)

So the sets were different. Much different.

And these were the best shows ever set list wise. Some people have seen multiple 3 hour shows and it just raises the stakes. Next time it has to be a 4 hour show with a new songs.

Edited November 22, 2012 by wasted

[SoulMonster]

I think people think it's the same set list because they see the main stays Jungle, Easy, Brown all of them etc. Then some new ones are dotted about, some have come and gone.

For me I saw them in 91. (Wembley)

2001/2 (Leeds)

Then in 2009. (Taipei)

So the sets were different. Much different.

Wow. Just missing a show from the beginning and you would have caught the whole gamut of setlists.