Best Elton John song ever:

[luciusfunk]

I tend to think that Elton John is incredibly overrated. I do believe he has some good songs, but not many and they were all written a loooooooong time ago. He's just not relevant anymore yet everyone goes on and on about the 'genius' he is. Just cuz he's still around banging away at that piano doesn't make him talented anymore, let alone a genius. Compare him to John Lennon (Sorry Len, I know I shouldn't even mutter those words) and it puts it into perspective. John Lennon wrote music that evolved right up to the time he died and he influenced other musicians throughout the body of his work.

Since the 80s Elton's music has been passe and out of touch. It happens a lot to creative people - something with the need to create which dies or they lose touch with the mood of the times and they are no longer relevant. The fashion designer Yves St Laurent did the same thing. Throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s he was the king of fashion. Untouchable. Amazing. Then he got old and times changed but he kept going. It was a shame because the work he did in the 90s was just a shadow of what he achieved for over 30 years. You gotta know when to stop and Elton John should have stopped long ago.

Wait, what? He's not talented anymore because he still plays his piano with insane precision? How does that make any sense? He doesn't "bang" away on it. He plays his songs with an immense amount of skill. More skill than anyone on this board has. I just can't agree with you there. I mean, Billy Joel wrote pop albums up until 1993 and decided to retire because he didn't want to keep making pop music. So now, he makes classical music because that's what he wants to do. But he still tours and "bangs" away on his piano because he wrote a ton of amazing music and there are legions of people that want to hear him continue to play that music.

Why is relevance even a discussion? Relevance is relative. Relevant to today's music scene? No, of course not. That shouldn't even matter.

Because talent as a musician counts for composition at least 80%, especially in the realm of popular music. Classical music is another area entirely because the complexity of the music is so much greater. Elton John has not had an original successful hit since the 80s, he composition skills have gone down the toilet. Being able to perform really counts for very little. Have you looked at the number of people with videos on YouTube singing other peoples songs thinking that it makes them a musician? Some of them can sing and play an instrument incredibly well but it means NOTHING unless you can actually write the music to begin with. Just playing music well from 30 years ago just isn't enough to warrant 'legend' or 'genius' status. Mozart was a genius, not Elton John.

His last hit was in the 80s? Um...

Relevance is irrelevant. The thread is about his best song.

Edited December 1, 2012 by luciusfunk

[sweetness]

They're all a load of shit.

dude, you're so edgy.

for me it's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, he has so many but that song has always stood out to me for some reason. Bernie's lyrics are perfect

[Zeppelin]

I tend to think that Elton John is incredibly overrated. I do believe he has some good songs, but not many and they were all written a loooooooong time ago. He's just not relevant anymore yet everyone goes on and on about the 'genius' he is. Just cuz he's still around banging away at that piano doesn't make him talented anymore, let alone a genius. Compare him to John Lennon (Sorry Len, I know I shouldn't even mutter those words) and it puts it into perspective. John Lennon wrote music that evolved right up to the time he died and he influenced other musicians throughout the body of his work.

Since the 80s Elton's music has been passe and out of touch. It happens a lot to creative people - something with the need to create which dies or they lose touch with the mood of the times and they are no longer relevant. The fashion designer Yves St Laurent did the same thing. Throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s he was the king of fashion. Untouchable. Amazing. Then he got old and times changed but he kept going. It was a shame because the work he did in the 90s was just a shadow of what he achieved for over 30 years. You gotta know when to stop and Elton John should have stopped long ago.

Wait, what? He's not talented anymore because he still plays his piano with insane precision? How does that make any sense? He doesn't "bang" away on it. He plays his songs with an immense amount of skill. More skill than anyone on this board has. I just can't agree with you there. I mean, Billy Joel wrote pop albums up until 1993 and decided to retire because he didn't want to keep making pop music. So now, he makes classical music because that's what he wants to do. But he still tours and "bangs" away on his piano because he wrote a ton of amazing music and there are legions of people that want to hear him continue to play that music.

Why is relevance even a discussion? Relevance is relative. Relevant to today's music scene? No, of course not. That shouldn't even matter.

Because talent as a musician counts for composition at least 80%, especially in the realm of popular music. Classical music is another area entirely because the complexity of the music is so much greater. Elton John has not had an original successful hit since the 80s, his composition skills have gone down the toilet. Being able to perform really counts for very little. Have you looked at the number of people with videos on YouTube singing other peoples songs thinking that it makes them a musician? Some of them can sing and play an instrument incredibly well but it means NOTHING unless you can actually write the music to begin with. Just playing music well from 30 years ago just isn't enough to warrant 'legend' or 'genius' status. Mozart was a genius, not Elton John.

I honestly can't agree with anything you've said, except that classical music is complex at times.

I don't give a damn about people on YouTube. Playing in front of thousands of people every other night while aging is not easy. It's nice from our internet point of view to just think they go out and everything goes like clockwork, and that it barely takes any kind of effort. But that's not the case. They may make it look effortless, but it takes a lot out of a performer like Elton John to put on a two hour show and play songs he recorded 20-30 years ago, including songs from later in his career.

Why are you bringing up Mozart? Elton John hasn't had a hit since the 70s, and you bring up Mozart? He's definitely relevant these days. You know, I hear he's coming out with a remix featuring Pitbull?

The very fact that you bring up Mozart makes your whole "he hasn't had a hit in blah blah" argument moot.

[Guest Len B'stard]

They're all a load of shit.

dude, you're so edgy.

Thats an insult right, like hipster? If i buy an Elton John album will i be allowed to stand over there with you and all the other non edgy grassroots no frills good honest straight jawed types? Well i'd rather bend down and chew my own penis off at the base if its all the same

[luciusfunk]

You add so much to this conversation.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I'm sorry, i'll stop, it's just i was being addressed is all And i feel i was making a rather pertinent point, to attempt to invalidate someones heartfelt opinion about a given thing by effectively labelling it an attempt to appear cool is slightly disingenuous as a defence of your position i think. By that rationale, you're more or less saying "like Elton John or else!", as if not liking Elton John is some sort of hapless attempt at being different for no good reason. Perhaps some people just think he's shit

I feel i do add something, a contrary opinion, something that promotes discussion, the only real issue is you seem to have a problem with that, in the most childish and puerile kind of way, you seem to feel that if someone doesn't like an artist you like it's some sort of personal attack on you, which is not the case, it's only music y'know?

But going back to Candle in the Wind, a song that was like, this heartfelt emotional ode to Marilyn Munroe and like...y'know, things like that are meant to be precious and by definition case specific, there's something of the money grubber in someone that would like, use the same song again for a different person and like, change some words around, it detracts greatly from the emotionalness of the piece, makes it all seem quite shallow. Cheap.

It's sort of like...writing a great song like Angie by The Stones and then like, 20 years later being hard up for a hit and going 'i think i'll write that song again and call it Mandy, after that bird that works in the butchers with the nice smile'. The whole thing becomes slightly more cheap and offensive and money grubbing when you're writing about a dead lady whoose corpse is probably still fuckin' warm.

Again, don't take none of this personal, it's all Elton John thats being discussed here.

Edited December 4, 2012 by sugaraylen

[sweetness]

I don't care if you don't like Elton John, music is subjective, it's just to come in here to a thread that is obviusly about the guy's music to say "They're all a load of shit" is more than just giving your 2 cents, you came in looking for a reaction.

Nobodies going to respond or care if you just said "eh, I never got into Elton John, not my thing", so you gotta spice shit up with a little bit of aggressiveness to get somebody to fire back, don't act like that wasn't your intention!

so I sarcastically told you that you're super edgy picking on Elton John fans

[Guest Len B'stard]

Ah, that makes sense then. I dunno like, thats a pretty standard response, "it's a load of shit", just means i don't like it, it's not meant to be "spiced up", it's a pretty offhand comment over here that just means you don't like something. It's different to saying "it's just not my thing" cuz i don't feel that way, i have stronger feelings on the matter, it's not just that he's "just not my thing", i actually really don't like him and i have reasons for not liking him and thinking his music is naff...but thats ALL it is, it's music, it's not a personal insult or anything, it doesn't require anything more than like, y'know, a person saying why they think i'm wrong. Thats not aggressive to me, to say something is "a load of shit", i'd apply that to...i dunno, a condiment i didn't like, a flavour of crisps that put me off, it's a pretty standard issue statement. Slightly impolite perhaps but Christ, it's not like i'm having a go at someones mum or something, it's a singer for crying out loud, d'ya know what i mean, its like fuckin' grow up, if i wanted to have a go at someone i'd do it, i don't need to go a roundabout way and use their favorite singer as a channel for abuse

For the life of me i'll never understand why some people get so menstrual over an instance where someone says something about like, their favorite artists. I mean, look, i like Joe Strummer right? Observe. Joe Strummer is a fucking cunt that couldn't sing and wrote shit songs. There, said it. Now whats happened really? Do you hear the angels horns wailing from the mountaintops ushering in the end of days? Has the earth shook and split asunder and sent thousands of innocents hurtling towards its core? Or is it just that someone has referred to a guitar player in slightly less than polite terms. If you were to go "The Clash are a load of shit" or "Marvin Gayes a load of shit", i wouldn't then turn around and go "yeah, well you're a fuckin' prick!" , it's a discussion board, i'd take it to mean "look, a person that doesn't like someone that i like, i see a discussion in the offing".

I mean are we really at that stage where, you like something and if i criticise it your response, instead of a response to the specific criticism will be "It's better than the fuckin' shit you like, nyah nyah"

And this idea that anybody who doesn't like the big fuckin'...peoples in music is like making some sort of attempt to be edgy is highly odious to say the least, at it's heart the governing principle behind it is to basically make everything that isn't like, the big bland fuckin' names of music like, remote from your average person, like there's something wrong with if you don't like the big names.

Edited December 4, 2012 by sugaraylen

[luciusfunk]

tl;dr

Your excuse is bullshit anyway. I don't see you going into the Drowning Pool thread and saying they're a "load of shit".

Edited December 4, 2012 by luciusfunk