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The Official Whiskey, Whisky, Bourbon and Scotch Thread


Dan H.

Which do you prefer?  

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So the Scots do a better job than the Irish?

Can't really compare a country that has over 100 active whisky distilleries and probably as many closed ones with a country that has around 10 active distilleries. It's a different industry and a different culture. On top of that there are different regulations for the spirit and based on the ingredients also different products.

Even more so with Bourbon by the way. Completely different product from single salt Scotch, blended (Scotch) whisky, Irish whisky. They're all different kinds of products and therefor hard to compare. Can't say one is better than the other. The Japanese are doing amazing with their whisky as well. And I must say the Taiwanese are doing really good things with their Kavalan whisky as well.

As far as the Irish go I think Connemara and Bushmills are making some very nice whisky.

But overall I (greatly) prefer single malt Scotch.

I could bore you with the long story on why they're so different if you like.

Please do.
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I have some Macallan 12 in my decanter now, I actually prefer it to the Glenlivet 12 I had before.

Don't really like Irish, though I do dig Bushmills.

My run of the mill sipper is Bourbon, Costco actually makes an outstanding small batch, Ezra Brooks aside from that (cheaper). For special occasions I'll celebrate with Scotch.

Edited by AxlisOld
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Please do.

5269558397_64406aeb94_z.jpg

But since I like talking about whisky, here goes:

Every whisky has 3 ingredients. Grain, water and yeast. Anything with other ingredients can't be called whisky. All whisky has to be at least 40% vol when bottled. But from there, they can be very very different.

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Let's start with Scotch Whisky.

And in Scotch whisky, let's start with Single Malt Scotch Whisky. Single means it was made at one specific distillery. Malt means that the only grain used in making the whisky was malted barley. Scotch means it has been made and matured in Scotland. On top of that there are a lot of regulations. It has to be matured in oak casks for a minimum of 3 years. Most casks used have been previously used for Bourbon or Sherry. But they may also use new oak casks, Port casks, Rum casks, Madeira casks, Wine casks, Ale casks etc. The casks (and what has been in them before, if anything) are a HUGE influence on the taste of the whisky.

For Single Grain Scotch Whisky the same rules apply, except that any grain may be used to create the whisky. So that means grains like barley, wheat, rye, corn (though I think they rarely use that in Scotland) or a mixture of any of those. For example The Invergordon, North British or The Bailey Nickol Jarvie.

When you make a whisky by mixing several single malt whisky's, it's called a Blended Malt Scotch Whisky. It's still just malt whisky, just a mixture from different malt whisky distilleries to create a certain flavour. For example Johnny Walker Blue Label.

When you do the same thing, but you use both single malt scotch whisky and single grain scotch whisky in your mixture, you've created a Blended Scotch Whisky. For example Johnny Walker Red Label, Chivas Regal or Dimple.

For as far as I know, Loch Lomond is the only distillery in Scotland that has the equipment to create both single malt scotch whisky and single grain scotch whisky. This makes them the only distillery capable of making a Single Blend Scotch Whisky. ;) I'm not sure if they do so though!

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The there's the other big world player - Bourbon. Bourbon may be created from any mixture of grain, as long as at least 51% of that mixture is corn. So there's always a distinctive corny flavour in it. Bourbon also has to be matured in new oak casks. The casks aren't allowed to have been used for anything else before. New oak gives off strong flavours of wood and vanilla. So those are also always very prominent in Bourbon. Bourbon has to be made and matured in America. It has to be distilled to a maximum of 80% vol, put in the cask at a maximum of 62,5% vol and bottled at a minimum of 40% vol. There's no age limit to it. Some bourbons are just 3 months old. Straight Bourbon however has to be at least 2 years old.

Bourbon is very strict. Nothing else may happen to the spirit after distillation other than watering it down (to reduce the alcohol to a max of 62,5%) and putting it in the cask. Jack Daniels for example isn't allowed to carry the name Bourbon because they filter the spirit with charcoal before putting it in the casks. So the makers decided to call that Tennessee Whiskey.

Most Bourbon you can buy is roughly 6 years old. Most high-end bourbon is older. Big difference with Scotland, where most whisky is bottled at an age of at least 10 years old.

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Then there's the other smaller whisk(e)y countries. Some say Whisky, others Whiskey. It doesn't say anything about the product itself though.

From what I know, Ireland has roughly the same rules as Scotland, except that they don't use a distinction between malt (barley) and grain. It's anything goes. They're also allowed to distil their whisky to a much higher alcohol percentage than the Scots. Strangely they do use terms as single malt and single grain, but there is no lawful definition of those terms in Ireland. Anything made from two different kinds of distillates has to be referred to as Blended though.

I know Canada barely has any regulations on whisky at all. Not like America or Scotland where it's all very strict. It has to be made and matured in Canada for at least 3 years. No real restrictions on the grains that I know of.

I'm not even sure about countries like Japan. Japanese whisky is huge. In my opinion very good too. I think they roughly follow the Scotch regulations. But I'm not sure if that's by law.

And then there's countries like Taiwan. Their only distillery is Kavalan, which makes some very nice whisky. But due to the climate (much hotter and more moist) the maturations happens very differently and there's way more evaporation too. So the whisky has to be bottled at a relatively young age because otherwise it'd drop under 40 vol and won't be allowed to be called whisky at all.

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So yeah. (Single Malt) Scotch and Bourbon are a world of difference. Different ingredients, mostly different ages, mostly different casks.

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It seems like microbrews are just beginning to mess around with distilled spirits but I think it's going to only get better. I don't see that becoming mass produced product as much as keeping it in small limited edition batches. Brewer community is more supportive and collaborative so it could become real interesting to see in 10 years time what happens. They won't put Jack Daniels out of business but it could lead to competitive pricing.

Right now it's more like a "see what happens in the tasting room" and toying with it.

Moonshine is another story, I think if they can rebrand (and rename) it and put a marketing campaign behind it, they could compete with vodka.

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Username, my girlfriend wants to pick out a Scotch that's a little more musty and Earthy for this New Years. Any suggestions?

Dude, now there's a hard one.

The thing that instantly comes to mind is Ardbeg. Either the Ardbeg Uigeadail or the 10 year old. But along with that musky earthyness you get a shitload of peat, smoke and probably something along the lines of iodine (medicinal tones). It's a fucking beast of a whisky. Pretty extreme taste-wise. A slightly less (but still quite) powerful alternative would be Laphroaig Quater Cask or possibly Caol Ila 12. All still pretty peaty as well though. Maybe Lagavulin 16.

I guess most earthy whisky is also peaty whisky. You have to like that. These are the kind of whiskies that give you some extra chesthair. Not sure if that's what your girlfriend is looking for though. :P

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In the US, legally the only thing that can be spelled "whisky" is Scotch, all others must have an "e." Whiskey.

I'm very sure the Japs don't use the e either. How do you guys solve that?

Japanese whisky is nowhere to be found around me. I don't know if you can get it anywhere. I wonder if it's been addressed. How is Japanese whisky, you said they were doing some pretty good things.
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In the US, legally the only thing that can be spelled "whisky" is Scotch, all others must have an "e." Whiskey.

I'm very sure the Japs don't use the e either. How do you guys solve that?
Japanese whisky is nowhere to be found around me. I don't know if you can get it anywhere. I wonder if it's been addressed. How is Japanese whisky, you said they were doing some pretty good things.

Good enough to compete with some of the best single malt Scotch in the world. Really, brands like Nikka, Suntory, Hibiki, Yamazaki, Chichibu and Yoichi are doing very well. I think they trumped the Scots in a lot of awards this year. Their style is quite similar to Scotch whisky as well.

Jim Murray rated the Yamazaki 12 year old sherry cask 2013 the best whisky in the world. Now, I personally believe it's silly to say something is the best in the world. I also generally spit on mr Murray's opinions and wouldn't even wipe my bottom with his whisky bible after taking a particularly bad dump. But still, he's important enough for this particular whisky to have (at least) quadrupled in value.

(on a side-note, that particular Yamazaki is probably actually very good)

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Glennlivet 21

Beautiful whisky!

Monkey Shoulder is a good blended triple malt scotch whiskey for the price. A lot of craft breweries are already putting out spirits (and moonshine) so it's probably going to become heavily competitive in the next few years but that doesn't mean they're going to be any good.

Probably one of the best blends in it's pricerange!

So you guys find that the decanters make a big difference? Also, if you don't drink everyday and plan to keep in there for months at a time is is safe or have any reverse effects?

Woodford is what I usually go for.

It all depends on how it's closed. Every time a bottle or decanter is open, new oxygen comes in and the liquid reacts with that oxygen. If the decanter doesn't close properly, there's more oxygen to react with and your whisky will change more quickly. I have a beautiful crystal decanter, and it's filled with cheap Ballentines. Aka for display purposes only. I like bottles better really. They give more info and have beautiful labels. Seems more authentic.

Also, shameless cross-post from this afternoon:

10301289_10152527513305924_8618963896570

Als, shameless collection-showing:

10856526_10152527872110924_4699849769740

Left to right:

The Balvenie Warehouse 24 Hand-filled @ 59,5% (distillery exclusive, hand-filled by me from a sherry cask)

Blair Athol 1989 by Exclusive Malts 23 years old @ 47,6%

Bowmore Hand-filled @ 55,5% (distillery exclusive, hand-filled, sherry cask)

Bruichladdich Summertime Valinch 23 years old @ 52,3% (distillery exclusive, hand-filled, Chateau Latour finish)

Bunnahabhain WCG Special Release 2012 22 years old @ 47,8% (sherry cask)

Clynelish by Duncan & Taylor 21 years old @ 53,9%

Clynelish WCG Clubbotteling 2012 14 years old @ 49,2%

Edradour Straight From The Cask 2002 10 years old @ 58,9% (Châteauneuf-du-Pape finish)

Glendronach 1994 18 years old cask strength @ 51,6% (pedro ximinez sherry cask)

Glendronach Cask Strenght Batch 1 @ 54,8% (oloroso and pedro ximinez sherry casks)

Laphroaig 1998 by The Ultimate 14 years old Cask Strenght @ 60,1% (refill sherry cask)

Mortlach by Cadenhead 16 years old @ 54,2% (bourbon cask)

Mortlach by Duncan & Taylor 16 years old @ 51,3% (sherry cask)

Old Pulteney 2000 14 years old cask strength @ 61,1% (distillery exclusive, hand-filled, bourbon cask)

Unknown Speyside WCG Clubbotteling 2013 18 years old @ 49,7%

Leapfrog, ive tried that one, goes down like water :). Only time I've ever tried a spirit of some sort of quality.

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So the Scots do a better job than the Irish?

Apparently the Japanese do it even better

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/best-whisky-in-the-world-prize-won-by-japanese-malt-for-first-time-as-scottish-distilleries-lose-out-9835583.html

Scottish distilleries are in shock after a Japanese single malt was named the best whisky in the world.

Whisky expert Jim Murray described the Yamazaki Single Malt Sherry Cask 2013 as a drink of “near incredible genius”, awarding it 97.5 marks out of 100 in the 2015 World Whisky Bible.

To add insult to injury it is the first time in the Whisky Bible’s 12-year history that a Scottish malt has failed to make the top five drams. It is also the first year that a Japanese whisky claimed the highest accolade.

Mr Murray, who oversees the review that samples over 4,500 different whiskies, labelled the results a “wake up call” for Scottish distilleries, claiming the winner was “a single malt which no Scotch can at the moment get anywhere near”.

Edited by moreblack
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So the Scots do a better job than the Irish?

Apparently the Japanese do it even better

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/best-whisky-in-the-world-prize-won-by-japanese-malt-for-first-time-as-scottish-distilleries-lose-out-9835583.html

Scottish distilleries are in shock after a Japanese single malt was named the best whisky in the world.

Whisky expert Jim Murray described the Yamazaki Single Malt Sherry Cask 2013 as a drink of “near incredible genius”, awarding it 97.5 marks out of 100 in the 2015 World Whisky Bible.

To add insult to injury it is the first time in the Whisky Bible’s 12-year history that a Scottish malt has failed to make the top five drams. It is also the first year that a Japanese whisky claimed the highest accolade.

Mr Murray, who oversees the review that samples over 4,500 different whiskies, labelled the results a “wake up call” for Scottish distilleries, claiming the winner was “a single malt which no Scotch can at the moment get anywhere near”.

Hmmm, I gave my opinion of Mr. Murray earlier. But still, it's stupid to call a whisky "the best". Sure it might be very good. But what you taste and how you like it really depends on the moment SO much. If Jim Murray had 4500 whisky's last year, how valid are his opinions anyway? Do the math... Taste is entirely subjective. What you can taste and smell depends very strongly on your frame of reference (what have you tasted and smelled in the past) and your memories relating to that smell. It's just SO subjective. This is one man (who happens to write something he calls a whisky bible) his opinion. Some may agree, many will not. All this accomplishes is a decent whisky going up in price SO much that it's not worth it's money any longer.

I'm not saying Scotch is better. All I'm saying is that there's really no way to tell.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Isn't there a region/county in France called Bourbon and that's where Bourbon comes from, or; Am I making this up? :shrugs:


I would not mind

Evan_Williams.JPG


:blink: EDIT - wow that stuff seems strong.

Varieties of whiskey using the Evan Williams brand name include the following:[1]

  • Evan Williams Green Label, 80 proof
  • Evan Williams White Label, 100 proof (bottled in bond)
  • Evan Williams Black Label, 86 proof
  • Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage, 86.6 proof
  • Evan Williams 1783, 86 proof
  • Evan Williams Red Label, 101 proof
  • Evan Williams 23 years old, 107 proof

Several liqueurs are also produced under the Evan Williams brand, including:

  • Evan Williams Egg Nog, 30 proof
  • Evan Williams Honey Reserve, 70 proof
  • Evan Williams Cherry Reserve, 70 proof
  • Evan Williams Apple Orchard, 70 proof
Edited by Snake-Pit
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I'd pay money to see you drunk Miser :lol:

I get much nicer, funnier, cocky, sarcastic and witty. I come out of my shell and feel emotion easier.

Not the cunt you are the rest of the time you mean? :lol:

You been working on that quip since December?

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  • 4 months later...

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