Millions Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 So i was just listening to Chinese Democracy today, for the first time in quite a while. And when I say 'Chinese Democracy' , I mean an edited, slimline version, with all the average or poor songs taken out, leaving : Shackler's, Better, Blues, TWAT, Madagascar, and This I Love. Giving the album a fresh listen like this really reminded me how strong some of these remaining songs are, and made me reflect on the initial promotion of the album when it was released.Who on earth came up with the idea of releasing Chinese Democracy as the lead single??? This was the single most catastrophic decision in the last 15 years of Guns N Roses. It is a dreary little song, dressed up with industrial bells and whistles to hide the lack of any kind of melody whatsoever. At the end of the day, it is boring and generic - and was never up to the standard required to relaunch the band.I remember the anticipation here in the UK. As a huge fan, I was pretty taken aback by the buzz which the build-up to the new release was causing - even amongst non GNR, and non hard rock fans. All the big radio stations announced days in advance that they were going to be playing the new single. The mysterious, enigmatic Axl Rose was making his return after over a decade as a semi-recluse, and people were genuinely interested to hear what he had been working on for so long. And then.......... nothing.Chinese Democracy - the single was played. The unanimous verdict of the DJs playing it and the listeners sending in their verdicts via Twitter, etc, was..... is that it? The song was quietly deleted from the playlists....... and that was pretty much the end of any promotion for the album.Again, I want to ask - who was responsible for the decision to release Chinese Democracy as the first single?! If they had chosen 'Better' or 'This I Love' , GNR would have had a hit here in the UK with all the radio play that first song was given. Releasing the other one as a second single would have confirmed the idea in people's minds that GNR were back - and still had 'it'. I believe this would have given Axl the confidence to get proudly out there and promote the album a little more, instead of shame-facedly be confroned the utter non-response which greeted the album, before going away into hiding again to lick his wounds. So who chose Chinese Democracy as the single? What the fuck were they thinking? What were their motives in this decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfTheWave Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Probably part of Azoff's sabotage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H. Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 There is no way TIL would have success as a single Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millions Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 I am convinced - absolutely convinced - that This I Love would have succeeded as a single. Maybe not amongst guys like you and me - but among the more general public - the ones who made November Rain and Knockin On Heaven's Door such big hits. The general public love a good power ballad - just look at Aerosmith - they probably had more commercial success when they started going down that route, and hiring in professional songwriters to churn out the big soppy ballads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard2k Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Never a fan of the song Chi Dem. I was equally puzzled by the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience 4 Axl Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 If TIL had been released, and failed miserably, people would be saying why wasn't (pick any other song on the album and insert here) released instead. IMO, none were hits, doesn't matter what was or would have been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eu4ic Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Doesnt matter how good or bad This I Love is - the point is that it would have fit in and resonated with the general public. Put that thing on the end credits to Twilight and GNR would've been huge again. There are some great songs on Chi Dem, imo. I just put CITR on a mix cd for somebody among Zeppelin, Queen, Elton John and others and frankly it makes those others sound a bit one-dimensional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Better, This I Love, or There Was A Time would all have made far better lead singles. Probably half the album would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facekicker Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Doesnt matter how good or bad This I Love is - the point is that it would have fit in and resonated with the general public. Put that thing on the end credits to Twilight and GNR would've been huge again. There are some great songs on Chi Dem, imo. I just put CITR on a mix cd for somebody among Zeppelin, Queen, Elton John and others and frankly it makes those others sound a bit one-dimensional.You know when GNR need to piggyback on that shitheap for popularity that it is well and truly over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millions Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Agreed, Flayer. That just emphasises what a monumental fuck-up it was to choose Chinese Democracy. Who the hell made that decision and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard2k Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Better, This I Love, or There Was A Time would all have made far better lead singles. Probably half the album would have.Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateRadio Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Just speculating, but it seems rather obvious that the Guns camp drew (and still draws) a parrallel line between Chinese Democracy and Welcome to the Jungle. I think it's got a really cool intro, and it works well when opening a live show.However, I disagree with where it was placed on the album. When you hit play, you're not if you missed the play button, the sound is muted, your speakers are fucked, you've gone deaf.... cause nothing comes out for like 18 minutes!The song can open a live show because of the lights and the pyro, and the anticipation of Axl strolling out on stage left, and Boom! Guns N Roses is on, and you're there, psyched out of your mind.Better should have been the first single, and I like the idea of Catcher or This I love released on flim or in a commercial at the exact same time. GNR needed to be many places simultanously in order to make it back. With all the different media and entertainment outlets these days, Guns needs to be everywhere so people don't miss them. TWAT's a badass song, and could've hit the radio soon after Better, Catcher, TIL made their impacts. Got to throw SOD in that group as well. But TWAT as a quick "round two" would have given sustainability to the album and band. In today market, you have hit em harm, hit em fast, hit em with lots, and hit em everywhere......imo. Could I name anymore contadictions to how things actually went down...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Theres a definite disconnect between what we expect, like big videos and multiple singles. For me anyway. And tge reality of the industry at that time.Add to that the Best Buy deal and Azoff.My guess is once the BB was done it was left to them. The digital single is just something that happens with cd releases. There was no thought behind it.I see CHi dem as Jungle to get the more metal fans then Better could have been like SCOM but no video happened.Shacklers and ITW seem more like something the band did through connections. So for me those were the singles.Problem was radio wasnt playing any songs because advertisers want the old hits or money from labels. This is prob where the label were meant to help but the BB changed the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnR Chris Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I completely, absolutely disagree with you.I loved "Chinese Democracy." That initial howl as the song is amping up ... shit, man, that was vintage Axl Rose and my first impression is "HE'S BACK!" I still remember how hard my heart was pumping as I was listening to it on the car ride home.You don't even mention "Catcher." I've had SEVERAL friends who were old Gn'R fans, who I made them listen to this record, tell me "Catcher" is brilliant. They all individually said "Catcher" is one of their favorite tracks.I am sick of the argument that "Chinese" doesn't have a refrain or catchy hook or whatever. "IT DON'T REALLY MATTER." No, it don't really matter.Edit: All that said, I agree that "Better" should have been the first single. Then "Chinese." THEN a ballad. Probably "Steet of Dreams."For how much people pump up "Madagascar," and I do like it live, it's rather boring for me. Edited December 9, 2012 by GnR Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Better, Twat, TIL, Blues, IRS on the record plus five more songs of that calibre. Release Better as the first single (with a video) and Blues, second single (video). Make this happen in 2002. The whole thing would have been much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I guess they could've worked out deals with different TV shows and promoted the songs over the fall season. My Space kind of sealed its fate at the time. You couldn't download the songs, yet you could hear the entire album for free and in hours could get it on file share sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbaugerud Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I remember my own first impressions on the new songs back when they were played live and then leaked. "Street of dream" would have been their best shot at the general public, simply because it's melodic, somewhat GnR-ish and great. Personally I got a bit tired of it a few years ago, but it would still have been the obvious single from that album.Those who think TWAT would have made a great single are totally naive. Potential as a classic, yes, but no single after a 15 year hibernation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facekicker Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Chinese is a fucking bad-ass rock song with balls and attitude.Fucking pussies who would rather have TIL as the lead single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkuk04 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 The follow up to CD is supposed to be more rocking is't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 TIL would have a good 2 or 3rd single. Diceman - gnr piggybacked on popularity since Dirty Harry and especially T2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Chinese is a fucking bad-ass rock song with balls and attitude.Fucking pussies who would rather have TIL as the lead single.+1 TIL is a good ballad but it`s very sappy and by no means it would have worked as a lead single Edited December 9, 2012 by Son of a Guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 As far as singles go, if it was up to me, I would pick Better as the first single, and Street Of Dreams as the second.I can see why they chose Chinese Democracy tho, but while it was similar in some ways to wttj, it didn't have certain qualities that are needed imo to be single material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trqster Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 People here gotta realize that TIL is by FAR the most popular and best rated CD song on youtube and by my own personal experience pretty much the only one that gets a crowd reaction at live gigs where 90% of the people attending hardly know any CD songs...TIL would have made a killer single and Better as a second single would've have faired also good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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