"Mick Taylor is a great guitarist..."

[ITG]

"but he found out the hard way that that's all he is" - Keith Richards

Mick Taylor seemed to meet the definition of the superfluous virtuoso musician. It was an experiment that probably influenced other bands not to go the same route. The R.S. were successful before and after he left. I'm pretty much glad he never returned.

Glad to see Ron Wood join the line up and return things back to normal.

[Nobodys_Fault]

I don't think Taylor ever considered himself anything other than a "great guitarist". He left the band because he didn't want to die, not because he felt he was bigger than it.

[dalsh327]

I don't think Taylor ever considered himself anything other than a "great guitarist". He left the band because he didn't want to die, not because he felt he was bigger than it.

It was also over songwriting credits that Mick and Keith refused to give him. He got credit on "Ventilator Blues" and that's it. It's a money issue with Jagger, always!

Bottom line - Mick and Keith are bastards. So were Lennon and McCartney. Big bastards. Andrew Oldham made sure they were bigger bastards than The Beatles (he was completely diminished for what he did with them in "Crossfire Hurricane"). It's a given it got to the point he wasn't needed anymore, but without him, Brian Jones and Ian Stewart? All essential to the success of that band. At least they included Ian in the Rock Hall induction.

Same thing happened to Marianne Faithfull, and Keith wound up vouching for her against Jagger (he's invited her to the shows, against Mick's wishes). It's also known that Taylor and Richards didn't get along, prob. because he was a good looking guy and a better player. I think now with fences mended and Taylor not suing the band for royalties, he prob. got a nice payday out of it, but nothing close to what he'd get as a songwriter.

John Phillips from the Mamas and Papas also reunited Mick Taylor together with members of the Stones in '77 for an album of his that sat unreleased until a decade ago.

It's known he had drug problems, but I think Mick and Keith promising to give him credit on a few songs on "It's Only Rock and Roll" was enough to just call it a day with them.

Jagger did want him to stay, but because Ron Wood was in the right place at the right time, got the job. But he was lied to by Mick and Keith and the drug problem he had was a higher priority. Who could blame him for being angry with them?

I think Mick and Keith screwed up by making Mick and Bill 'special guests' with the fans and getting their hopes up. It was a big selling point of the "50" shows. They were never on the stage at the same time until they came out at the end and bowed.

[Vincent Vega]

"but he found out the hard way that that's all he is" - Keith Richards

Mick Taylor seemed to meet the definition of the superfluous virtuoso musician. It was an experiment that probably influenced other bands not to go the same route. The R.S. were successful before and after he left. I'm pretty much glad he never returned.

Glad to see Ron Wood join the line up and return things back to normal.

Except that he added something to all those songs in the '69-'74 period which is generally known as the Stones' best era. Honky Tonk Women, Can't You Hear Me Knockin', Time Waits for No One, Moonlight Mile, Sway, Winter, and tons of other songs wouldn't be quite like they are if not for either the uncredited songwriting he did or the touches he added to the songs. What did the Stones become with Ron Wood? Just an average rock band that never again reached the creative powers it had prior to his joining.

What has Wood contributed creatively? Most of the good Stones songs written post 1974 had Mick's hand; Some Girls is basically Mick Jagger's baby with his experiments in Disco and Punk and Dance, as are Rescue and Undercover--Albums he pushed forward to keep up with the times, which helped alienated Keith. Tattoo You is nothing but a collection of outtakes from sessions in the '70s--with the other lead single off that album featuring Mick Taylor on guitar, not Ronnie Wood. Start Me Up dates from before Ronnie was a member, when they were auditioning guitar players in 1975, originating as a reggae influenced song by Keith called Never Stop.

Wood's playing--called the art of "weaving"---you might as well just take Keith and have him overdub a second guitar part playing lightly off his own; they're pretty indistinguishable from each other.

The album in which Ronnie Wood has the most credit, in which he had the most hand in making, is Dirty Work...And that's considered by pretty much everyone to be the worst album they ever did, that's so bad it's generally swept under the rug and hidden away like an old embarrassing photo, in the Stones' history.

Wood is little more than a journeymen, a piss poor player who is no threat to Keith's ego and no real force creatively, who acts as Keith's lap dog and who fits the "Stones image". He's not a man of any real talent like Brian Jones or Taylor were. He's just your run of the mill Rock N' Roll guitarist. He's in essence the DJ Ashba of The Rolling Stones.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[dalsh327]

Ron Wood in The Faces matters more than he does in the Stones. Why he's considered official and Daryl Jones isn't, is kind of stupid considering how long Daryl's been in the Stones.

Dirty Work is one of those albums you have to go back and listen to, same with Emotional Rescue and Undercover.

LOL - the DJ Ashba of the Stones!! Maybe. Still, he's the one keeping the Knebworth show together with Jagger, while Keith's in the back barely hanging on, and he did teach Slash a few things on guitar as a kid. I think Jagger was just happy his worst vice was drinking, and would've rather had a drunk Keith than a smacked out Keith.

But the whole thing of Mick and Keith not giving Taylor credit was wrong on their part. Jagger saying he contributed a line here and there is BS and all the fans know it. That's the greed talking, and with Brian Jones, have to go with Oldham & Wyman on whether or not Jones tried to contribute and was shot down by Mick and Keith.

Keith in 1978-1980 was on Mick's shitlist,with good reason. Keith was able to get his shit together for the Some Girls tour, and was on his A-game for the Tattoo You tour, and had to be with al the sponsors involved. I also think with them talking to each other less and less, and not being close friends anymore, the stuff they didn't like about each other started coming up more and more.

This was missing from "Crossfire Hurricane", even though it's prob. the best part of "25 x 5".

I Tweeted Steve Lillywhite a few months ago and asked him what he thought about "Some Kind of Monster" compared to "Dirty Work", and he said "i have "seen" both and Dirty Work kills it!" Too bad they didn't film the recording sessions!!!

[The Real McCoy]

Ron is a great guitarist...

[moreblack]

Ron is a great guitarist...

thinking the same thing.

[Ragnar]

Ron is a great guitarist...

thinking the same thing.

Not great but solid certainly better then Ashba can ever dream of being enjoy his work in Small Faces

[Vincent Vega]

Maybe in The Faces he's great but in the Stones he does not stand out at all. Doesn't do jack. It just sounds like Keith playing with himself overdubbed. He's not done anything special.

Perhaps the DJ Ashba of the band is a bad comparison; Maybe he's the Gilby Clarke of The Rolling Stones?

Whatever Ronnie taught Slash, Slash considered Mick Taylor to be his main influence at least in the early '90s.

Ron Wood in The Faces matters more than he does in the Stones. Why he's considered official and Daryl Jones isn't, is kind of stupid considering how long Daryl's been in the Stones.

Dirty Work is one of those albums you have to go back and listen to, same with Emotional Rescue and Undercover.

LOL - the DJ Ashba of the Stones!! Maybe. Still, he's the one keeping the Knebworth show together with Jagger, while Keith's in the back barely hanging on, and he did teach Slash a few things on guitar as a kid. I think Jagger was just happy his worst vice was drinking, and would've rather had a drunk Keith than a smacked out Keith.

But the whole thing of Mick and Keith not giving Taylor credit was wrong on their part. Jagger saying he contributed a line here and there is BS and all the fans know it. That's the greed talking, and with Brian Jones, have to go with Oldham & Wyman on whether or not Jones tried to contribute and was shot down by Mick and Keith.

Keith in 1978-1980 was on Mick's shitlist,with good reason. Keith was able to get his shit together for the Some Girls tour, and was on his A-game for the Tattoo You tour, and had to be with al the sponsors involved. I also think with them talking to each other less and less, and not being close friends anymore, the stuff they didn't like about each other started coming up more and more.

This was missing from "Crossfire Hurricane", even though it's prob. the best part of "25 x 5".

I Tweeted Steve Lillywhite a few months ago and asked him what he thought about "Some Kind of Monster" compared to "Dirty Work", and he said "i have "seen" both and Dirty Work kills it!" Too bad they didn't film the recording sessions!!!

Why he's considered official and Darryl isn't is purely a matter of money.

Ronnie is an official member of the Stones because he is part of the legal partnership. Why would the Stones cut another guy in? It'd just mean they'd have to share more money with him and that he might have a say in band decisions. It's the Mick & Keith show.

Ronnie wasn't made an official Stone until Bill Wyman quit and the Stones renegotiated their record contract in 1993. Ronnie basically replaced Bill in the legal entity known as The Rolling Stones.

Before that, he was an unofficial member on salary, despite having been in the band since 1975.

They were't too happy with his drinking habits. I think there's been two or three times where Mick has seriously considered firing Ronnie due to his alcoholism. The most notable time was in 1981. Mick was unsure if Ronnie could or would handle the tour. They had George Thoroughgood waiting in the wings to replace him if he so much as fucked up or fell off the wagon; he'd have been off the tour and out of the band with Thoroughgood replacing him.

I've tried to like Dirty Work, I just simply can't. I love Undercover and Rescue.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[moreblack]

Maybe in The Faces he's great but in the Stones he does not stand out at all. Doesn't do jack. It just sounds like Keith playing with himself overdubbed. He's not done anything special.

Perhaps the DJ Ashba of the band is a bad comparison; Maybe he's the Gilby Clarke of The Rolling Stones?

Whatever Ronnie taught Slash, Slash considered Mick Taylor to be his main influence at least in the early '90s.

He's certainly not there to make waves, he's there to support and prop up Mick and Keith. Which is what they always wanted it seems.

[Vincent Vega]

It's come at the expense of the music. Brian and Mick, while being independent personalities who didn't prop up Mick N' Keith, contributed massively to the sound of the band and helped create masterpieces during their tenures....I can't say the same for Ronnie.

[ITG]

Dj Ashba of the stones? LOL.

Mick Taylor is irrelevant. Only pretentious hipsters try artificially to prop up an otherwise forgotten musician. Go buy his solo albums if you think he is so great.

[Randy Lahey]

Mick Taylor was amazing in The Stones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gy3PH4Sf6g

Edited January 6, 2013 by Randy Lahey

[classicrawker]

Mick Taylor is a temendous guitar talent but he could not write music for shit....and Ronnie is very underrated as a musician IMHO and he complemented Keef much better than Mick did............ and Miser the fact that it sounds like Keefs playing is overdubbed by Ronnie is sort of the idea of their collaboration...The ancient art of weaving as Keef would say..........

Don't get me wrong The Mick T. era is my favorite Stones era by far, and the 69 tour my favorite, but Ronnie gets too much shit for no reason...with out him I truly believe there would be no Stones today............

[Randy Lahey]

I think lots of people see Ronnie as the guy who is blocking Mick Taylor from once again rejoining The Stones.

[ITG]

I think a lot of people have no idea who Mick Taylor is.

[Randy Lahey]

I think a lot of people have no idea who Mick Taylor is.

I think lots of Stones fans know who he is.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Randy Lahey

[classicrawker]

I think lots of people see Ronnie as the guy who is blocking Mick Taylor from once again rejoining The Stones.

Mick Taylor will never rejoin the Stones as a fulltime member as long as Keef can still get up on stage...besides the band is pretty much on life support at this point and don't see them touing much past the upcoming tour in 2013 as Keef health is in question....

[Vincent Vega]

Mick Taylor is a temendous guitar talent but he could not write music for shit....and Ronnie is very underrated as a musician IMHO and he complemented Keef much better than Mick did............ and Miser the fact that it sounds like Keefs playing is overdubbed by Ronnie is sort of the idea of their collaboration...The ancient art of weaving as Keef would say..........

Don't get me wrong The Mick T. era is my favorite Stones era by far, and the 69 tour my favorite, but Ronnie gets too much shit for no reason...with out him I truly believe there would be no Stones today............

I think that ancient art of weaving crap is just that...crap. When Brian was in the band and playing guitar, he had his own distinctive tone and sound. It blended with Keith's to an extent but it was also clear it was two differet players, two different personalities.

I just don't see Ronnie in there at all, except as someone else said to support Mick and Keith and to be Keith's lap dog. He's no threat to Keith's ego and he's neither a superior musician than Keith (like Brian was), nor as loud a personality as Keith (Brian was in some ways more of an icon than Keith), and he's not a superior guitar player (which Mick Taylor was). With Brian, you get a lot of wonderful things like Lady Jane, The Last Time, I Wanna Be Your Man, Paint it Black, Ruby Tuesday, 20,000 Lightyears from Home, No Expectations and many more...All songs that Brian put his stamp on and wouldn't have been nearly as good without him. With Mick Taylor you had songs like Can't You Hear Me Knockin', Sway, Winter, Time Waits for No One, Honky Tonk Women and many others where he put his own stamp on....You don't really have that with Ronnie; He's just sort of...there.

As far as Mick not interplaying with Keith as well as Ronnie, look at for example the 'weaving' on songs like Rocks Off or Can't You Hear Me Knockin' or Sympathy for the Devil from Ya Ya's.. Two different guitar styles meshing together and playing off each other to great effect.

Ronnie may have been great in The Faces but either he's lost his edge or he's simply under used in the Stones...Either way I think of their three lead guitarists he is the least talented. Brian was a better all around musician than Ronnie and Mick Taylor was a better guitarist.

[dalsh327]

I think lots of people see Ronnie as the guy who is blocking Mick Taylor from once again rejoining The Stones.

Mick Taylor will never rejoin the Stones as a fulltime member as long as Keef can still get up on stage...besides the band is pretty much on life support at this point and don't see them touing much past the upcoming tour in 2013 as Keef health is in question....

It only came into question when Ronnie went to rehab and Mick Taylor had worked with the Stones on the Exile stuff a few years ago. I'm sure Jagger gave it considerable thought, too, Keith prob. had a few "get it together, man" talks with him.but if it was up to just Mick, Ron would've been fired, but it's not. Charlie also has a lot of say in the band, he seems like the type to say little publicly, and a lot to say behind closed doors. He keeps Mick and Keith's egos in check, but during "Dirty Work", was going through full blown addiction... but who knew? He's just good at keeping his cards close to the vest.

I'm sure Ronnie was going to be fired if he didn't get it together, and the rehab wasn't by choice.

Jagger wouldn't replace Charlie or Keith. The only time he prob. considered replacing Keith was if he was going to do time in Canada back in the 70s. I don't remember Wyman's book that well, but it would've been mentioned in there. They were all pissed off at Keith's stupidity.

If any them died in the past 20 years, they would've done a final show and called it a day, but I don't know if Ron Wood had been fired, if they would've replaced him with Mick Taylor or someone like Slash, who A: was born in England, B: would've brought some good riffs in, and C: can play the Stones' songs well. Jeff Beck def. would've been called on, Jagger said over the years, Beck's been in the studio with him, and gets along with the guys. But either one would've been more like a fill-in player than a permanent member.

The band's in its sunset years, and I just think they'll still get songs out here and there, and do an occasional show. I think Jagger is happier with doing stuff like Superheavy and all star bands, but as long as Keith can play and write, and Charlie's around, there will still be a Rolling Stones. There's still archive stuff planned, the question is if Mick and Keith are going to have any involvement in any of the ABKCO era material. I am hoping for a mono box set.

[moreblack]

It's come at the expense of the music. Brian and Mick, while being independent personalities who didn't prop up Mick N' Keith, contributed massively to the sound of the band and helped create masterpieces during their tenures....I can't say the same for Ronnie.

I don't think it's really hurt the music that much, in fact I'd say some people can probably name more Ron era songs than Taylor era songs.

[Vincent Vega]

It's come at the expense of the music. Brian and Mick, while being independent personalities who didn't prop up Mick N' Keith, contributed massively to the sound of the band and helped create masterpieces during their tenures....I can't say the same for Ronnie.

I don't think it's really hurt the music that much, in fact I'd say some people can probably name more Ron era songs than Taylor era songs.

So can I, but that's more because Ron has been around longer and for more albums. Mick Taylor was only in the band for 5 years and 5 albums. Ronnie's been in the band for 38 years and has played on 10 albums so far...Not so much a question of quality as much as sheer quantity.

Funnily, Brian was in the band for 7 years and played on 10 albums....Much more productive and prolific than Ronnie and Mick.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Vincent Vega