Themes, inspiration and lack of new material

[username]

I usually don't like to speculate/think about this a lot, but I incidentally did. So with the risk of sounding ridiculous, here goes. What kickstarted this trail of thought were the lyrics of the Checkmate clip. A lot of people would agree it's roughly this:

All cautions made, every chance was given, no effort spared, to save what we had

Basically this shows regret, sadness, anger, abandonment issues... And basically those themes run through a lot of CD. The most obvious example being Sorry. A couple of examples:

Don't ever try to tell me, how much you care for me

Don't ever try to tell me, how you were there for me

I don't believe there's a reason (I don't, I don’t believe it)

I don't believe there's a reason (I sure, I don’t believe it)

I've got a wicked demon here somehow never fades

I've got an empty feeling

I won't be home today

No one is stopping you from doing what you want to do

No one is stopping you now, stopping you now

You like to hurt me

You know that you do

You like to think

In some way

That it's me

And not you

Nobody owes you

Not one goddamn thing

You know where to put your

'Just shut up and sing'

It was a bargain for the summer

An I thought I had it all

I was the one who gave you everything

The one who took the fall

You were the one who would do anything

The one who can't recall

Forgive them that tear down my soul

And bless them that they might grow old

And free them so that they may know

That it's never too late

I'm not going to say everything on CD is about this stuff and over analyze every line. But I still maintain that some of the most common themes in CD were anger, sadness, betrayal, abandonment issues etc. And yes, I do think this was mostly due to the original band breaking up. It's about Slash, it's about Duff, it's about Izzy. Not every line, but the main feel of the album is.

Just like for example Keith Richards You' Don't More Me Anymore is actually about Mick Jagger. At the time he even thought it was about some woman or relationship but later on he realized it was just how he felt towards Mick. He talks about it in his book as well.

Now, this raises a few issues for me.

First of all. They were all written in more or less anger. That matches the fire GnR started with around 2001/2002. And I think it was still there in 2006. Then it slowly wore off. Maybe this is related to the lack of new material. If the anger dies down, maybe the songs seem silly now (to Axl). Maybe that's part of why he's not doing anything with them. He's calmed down and feels meh about the lyrics and subjects in them.

That's half of why I think there's no album. The other half is this. If that was his inspiration then, what's his inspiration now? Is there any inspiration? What's the fuel?

So I think there's no progress because:

1. Axl feels weird/unsure about the old material which is probably just as angry and about the old GnR as most of CD is.

2. Without that anger, he has no inspiration to write other things either. There's no fuel to the fire.

Thoughts?

One last thing, PLEASE don't make this another Axl vs Slash threads.

Edited January 13, 2013 by username

[Towelie]

Then record new songs with the current lineup which reflect his state of mind today.

It's not that hard.

[username]

Then record new songs with the current lineup which reflect his state of mind today.

It's not that hard.

Hence my point 2. No inspiration -> No songs.

[cheesecake]

When you put it that way, yeah I kinda agree that he may not have anything to inspire him at this point of life. Maybe he could try coming up with "Team-Brazil-saved-me-and-makes-me-happy" theme?

[Towelie]

Then record new songs with the current lineup which reflect his state of mind today.

It's not that hard.

Hence my point 2. No inspiration -> No songs.

Complacency and laziness are the reason behind Axl's lack of inspiration.

[Eu4ic]

I think also the fact he tried to make the biggest most perfect album has simply worn him out. BH and Robin left and he never really got to properly tour that material. Axl was, and tends to be, in the state of mind that he can manufacture the greatest thing ever. And while I did see a fire there in '01-'02, it simply could not last. (Btw, I do like CD a lot, it's just I think there's too many ideas and shit going on)

The monstrosity he referred to at the '02 VMAs became a Frankensteinian nightmare. (The fact there's a wannabe poser like DJ Ashba taking the place of Slash and Buckethead is the clearest proof that comes to mind.)

Where do you go after trying to make the biggest album, and finding yourself between a rock a hard place? I say break it down and simplify things. Izzy seems to be the only person Axl can both work with and respect artistically. I know it's harder than that, business issues and stuff. But that's just something that comes to mind.

I believe Axl needs to humble himself and work alongside somebody like Izzy instead of being the damn CEO Alpha Dog of Guns n Roses Incorporated. All this business shit, personalities, industrial bells and whistles, hacked emails and powerpoint presentations associated with the Chi Dem era is so...not-rock n roll, not-punk, not-art. It's no surprise we're at this strange juncture.

[T.wa.T]

I think a song like Better, clearly shows he is still able to write great rock songs.

And songs like Twat, Maddy, show Axl can stil turn his thoughts into words. Same w Prostitute,SoD n Catcher.

I also think there is still alot of legal wrangling that needs to be smoothed out. Axl wanted full control now he has it, n not for nothing its painfully obvious he has a hrd time with it. I personally blame Mick Jagger, who has full rank over the Stones. I believe Axl saw how Mick does things n said to him self, thats what I got to do. This started back when they opened for the Stones, back in 89'. Just my opinion.

Back on topic he still has it, just needs to prioritise (sp) better.

[username]

I think a song like Better, clearly shows he is still able to write great rock songs.

And songs like Twat, Maddy, show Axl can stil turn his thoughts into words. Same w Prostitute,SoD n Catcher.

Those songs were written roughly 10 years ago and thus they prove nothing. That's what I explained in the first post.

[jman2000]

I think a song like Better, clearly shows he is still able to write great rock songs.

And songs like Twat, Maddy, show Axl can stil turn his thoughts into words. Same w Prostitute,SoD n Catcher.

I also think there is still alot of legal wrangling that needs to be smoothed out. Axl wanted full control now he has it, n not for nothing its painfully obvious he has a hrd time with it. I personally blame Mick Jagger, who has full rank over the Stones. I believe Axl saw how Mick does things n said to him self, thats what I got to do. This started back when they opened for the Stones, back in 89'. Just my opinion.

Back on topic he still has it, just needs to prioritise (sp) better.

Yup. Most everything of what you said I agree with.

[T.wa.T]

Ok, I think Axl been through enough shit to find a lifetimes worth of material, be it good or bad.

He was born to be a singer/songwriter, its what he does. Maybe he needs to find a better writing partner this time around? Idk, to help w his inspiration, instead of waiting for his damn muse to appear again.

[Mindray11]

I think he would write stuff like that now...."I'm just a happy little guy, waiting for mommy Beta's apple pie" or so

[Val22]

That's probably it. Axl isn't inspired by anything now to write any new songs.

If he's happy, there's nothing to bitch about and let's face it, most rock songs are about bitching about something.

I just hope Axl doesn't get too political. When a band does that, it's usually the kiss of death. Most fans don't want to listen to songs that tell what a fucked up world this is. We want to escape for 2 to 3 hours about other people's shit.

[maynard]

he has hundreds of songs to release. he would need to start writing again after releasing 3 or 4 albums.

[username]

he has hundreds of songs to release. he would need to start writing again after releasing 3 or 4 albums.

Again, as I said in the first post, most of those things (if they're anything like CD) are about anger and issues with the original gnr breaking up. Who says he still wants to release them?

He's not releasing them now or showing any intention to do so.

[nambis]

I just hope Axl doesn't get too political. When a band does that, it's usually the kiss of death. Most fans don't want to listen to songs that tell what a fucked up world this is. We want to escape for 2 to 3 hours about other people's shit.

civil war much?

[maynard]

he has hundreds of songs to release. he would need to start writing again after releasing 3 or 4 albums.

Again, as I said in the first post, most of those things (if they're anything like CD) are about anger and issues with the original gnr breaking up. Who says he still wants to release them?

He's not releasing them now or showing any intention to do so.

i completely agree.

[riot]

I just hope Axl doesn't get too political. When a band does that, it's usually the kiss of death. Most fans don't want to listen to songs that tell what a fucked up world this is. We want to escape for 2 to 3 hours about other people's shit.

civil war much?

SYSTEM OF A DOWN.

[Roush]

username, I believe you're over-thinking Axl's attachment to self pity. He feels sorry for himself, period. If there is a theme present, it is incidental, and wasn't planned.

[username]

If there is a theme present, it is incidental, and wasn't planned.

Ah! Agreed! But that's why I referenced Keith Richards' You Don't Move Me Anymore (from his first solo album). It wasn't planned. In fact he realized later that it was about Mick. I think it could very well be the same with Axl (although the "shut up and sing" line is pretty darn clear). A lot of it...maybe he didn't realize how much it was about Slash, Duff and Izzy. But it was.

Regardless, I think it fueled his inspiration then. Roughly 1998-2002. But what fuels him now?

Edited January 13, 2013 by username

[Towelie]

But what fuels him now?

My guess is, not a lot.

[Roush]

If there is a theme present, it is incidental, and wasn't planned.

Ah! Agreed! But that's why I referenced Keith Richards' You Don't Move Me Anymore (from his first solo album). It wasn't planned. In fact he realized later that it was about Mick. I think it could very well be the same with Axl (although the "shut up and sing" line is pretty darn clear). A lot of it...maybe he didn't realize how much it was about Slash, Duff and Izzy. But it was.

Regardless, I think it fueled his inspiration then. Roughly 1998-2002. But what fuels him now?

Slash, Izzy, and Duff all released their solo records eons ago. All of which therapeutically dealt with the break-up. Axl's moment came 12 years after the fact. So now Axl's playing catch up, and I assume he has some degree of clairvoyance with the release of Chinese Democracy.

To answer your last question: judging by song titles, it seems like he reads for inspiration. See: "Ides Of March", "Zodiac", "Atlas Shrugged".

[GnR Chris]

I think Axl doesn't have a muse any more. So in that regard, I agree with you. He realizes his vision for Guns N' Roses post-classic lineup is dead. They will never be close to what they were. It's too late. It took him too long.

That, and the record industry dried up in the time it took him to release CD. What's the sense of spending money in the studio at this point? What benefit will it serve monetarily? Artistically, he doesn't seem to really give a shit any more.

I don't agree that he might find it silly to release old songs with lyrics about anger and bitterness and so forth. He tours off those songs and songs they wrote when they were in their 20s. Judging by how he still seems to hold grudges, he's probably still bitter and resentful.

[wasted]

My first impression of the clip was that it sounded a bit like he was over it more. The past tense is used almost like its about what he talked about in CD in the present. Also the victorious fanfare guitars.

So that CD unreleased material could be like that, less GNR sounding more liberated from the themes of CD. Less guitar oriented. This is just how Axl described CDII.

Inspiration is interesting as after those two phases there was still the release of CD and the worst year of his life. Azoff, Dr Pepper and More lawsuits.

But beyond that Axl said in USA today hes happy with the current band creafvity and has said hes having more fun. So im kind of expecting a little more fun, songs about good times.

Some maybe a bit of both?

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

Then record new songs with the current lineup which reflect his state of mind today.

It's not that hard.

Hence my point 2. No inspiration -> No songs.

Axl will marry some model, and in 10 years we'll get some lame album about fatherhood like Don Henley did.

Axl will top the adult contemporary charts in 2023.

But what fuels him now?

My guess is, not a lot.

Red Bull and Cheetos

Edited January 14, 2013 by Freddie Mercury's Ghost

[dalsh327]

I usually don't like to speculate/think about this a lot, but I incidentally did. So with the risk of sounding ridiculous, here goes. What kickstarted this trail of thought were the lyrics of the Checkmate clip. A lot of people would agree it's roughly this:

All cautions made, every chance was given, no effort spared, to save what we had

Basically this shows regret, sadness, anger, abandonment issues... And basically those themes run through a lot of CD. The most obvious example being Sorry. A couple of examples:

Don't ever try to tell me, how much you care for me

Don't ever try to tell me, how you were there for me

I don't believe there's a reason (I don't, I don’t believe it)

I don't believe there's a reason (I sure, I don’t believe it)

I've got a wicked demon here somehow never fades

I've got an empty feeling

I won't be home today

No one is stopping you from doing what you want to do

No one is stopping you now, stopping you now

You like to hurt me

You know that you do

You like to think

In some way

That it's me

And not you

Nobody owes you

Not one goddamn thing

You know where to put your

'Just shut up and sing'

It was a bargain for the summer

An I thought I had it all

I was the one who gave you everything

The one who took the fall

You were the one who would do anything

The one who can't recall

Forgive them that tear down my soul

And bless them that they might grow old

And free them so that they may know

That it's never too late

I'm not going to say everything on CD is about this stuff and over analyze every line. But I still maintain that some of the most common themes in CD were anger, sadness, betrayal, abandonment issues etc. And yes, I do think this was mostly due to the original band breaking up. It's about Slash, it's about Duff, it's about Izzy. Not every line, but the main feel of the album is.

Just like for example Keith Richards You' Don't More Me Anymore is actually about Mick Jagger. At the time he even thought it was about some woman or relationship but later on he realized it was just how he felt towards Mick. He talks about it in his book as well.

Now, this raises a few issues for me.

First of all. They were all written in more or less anger. That matches the fire GnR started with around 2001/2002. And I think it was still there in 2006. Then it slowly wore off. Maybe this is related to the lack of new material. If the anger dies down, maybe the songs seem silly now (to Axl). Maybe that's part of why he's not doing anything with them. He's calmed down and feels meh about the lyrics and subjects in them.

That's half of why I think there's no album. The other half is this. If that was his inspiration then, what's his inspiration now? Is there any inspiration? What's the fuel?

So I think there's no progress because:

1. Axl feels weird/unsure about the old material which is probably just as angry and about the old GnR as most of CD is.

2. Without that anger, he has no inspiration to write other things either. There's no fuel to the fire.

Thoughts?

One last thing, PLEASE don't make this another Axl vs Slash threads.

Is there incentive for Axl to work on new songs with the band?