Question for old school fans: What did you think of the UYI albums back in 91?

[T.wa.T]

Except Kurt Cobain couldnt handle becoming the exact thing that he stood against,and blew his brains out,pity. And MJ is still the greatest of all time.

I remember loving UYI 1 & 2 when they came out, but it was also weird because like wasted said by that time guns were going over the edge into being an over bloated aged rock band and they got it from the media, and from people who used to be fans but quickly changed to the seattle scene.

So with that, and with the album not being what AFD was the final review of that album will always be a mixed bag, much like it was with my friends and I back then.

Watching Kurt punk out Axl on the MTV awards was like watching Allen Iverson cross-over Michael Jordan, it was like "well this guy is over"

Never been the same since then.

[wasted]

It's true Kurt refused to make that step into stadium rock for real. And as much as UYI lost an audience it gained one too, Nov Rain connected with the mainstream. You could say that Chi Dem did the same. It might not be the same people who like it and not as many but they might be new fans. It's one of the key marketing strategies, you don't sell to your market you already have them, you bring in new customers.

Kurt opted to become a real junkie, only hang out with junkies and in the end died a junkie. All to prove he hadn't sold out. I think Axl wanted to be a huge rock star like Jagger or Elton.

The only person that seemed to have Kurt's ear was Michael Stipe. An example of someone in the mainstream that he respected. Cobain just didn't go in for any of the trappings of success. no Brazilian supermodels, $100,000 bottles of wine, I mean even their mansion had no heating and turned into a squat. Axl went into therapy and seemed to be a little less self destructive to himself.

As fans we see the good times and the big show but we aren't always aware what's going on behind the scenes. That's what I think Axl was singing about on UYI. You get to the top and you see the truth behind all the live fast die fast myths. Locomotive and Don't Damn Me seem to be the real triumphs on UYI but they had to put out some GNR stuff like AFD to keep people happy.

And CD is like another step away from that self destructive rock n roll. Some of it like Shackler's sounds like that but it isn't. So to survive that's what they had to do and some band members couldn't or weren't ready to make that leap. The thing that made GNR stand apart was that the rage and self destruction seemed real and rooted in real problems. Not just a JD bottle full of tea to look cool. So to then become a sort of rolling parody of AFD for the next 20 years seemed like not an option. Fans would see through it.

So if CD doesn't deliver all those rock n roll thrills then at least it's an honest record, and people do connect to that honesty in the end.

[T.wa.T]

I was all for Nivana n what they brought musically, until I realized the underlying theme of suicide throughout his lyrics, it made the music depressing, and to go out like he did was a cop out to himself his family,freinds, and his fans.

[wasted]

I never really heard any suicidal themes. He was just a heroin addict, many heroin addicts kill themselves when in withdrawal, but yeah he wasn't in withdrawal he shot up enough to OD three normal people. But I guess it didn't have any effect. I think the Rome OD left him a shell of his former self. Internal organs were a mess, minor brain damage according one doctor, almost like a stroke victim. He was depressed though, he was meant to be on meds but wasn't taking them. It's not like he rationally decide to hurt everyone in his life. I don't think that is true. Suicide is normally a result of a cycle of pain that appears to the person as never going to end or change.

True, before it became about Kurt's stomach it was just a heavier, dirtier GNR plus that whole wave of bands. Soundgarden seemed more like GNR. Get on the Snake, Big Dumb Sex they covered part of it on Spag Incident.

[T.wa.T]

Off the top of my head Come As You Are is the one that stands out, may be in the others it not so noticeable, but a line here and there was enough for me to lose interest. Not taking anything away from them/him. I get why his fans like him. I moved on to pearl jam ,aic, tool along side of GnR. Was a fan of Soundgarden to, Jesus Christ Pose, Rusty Cage, damn I forgot the name of the album before Badmotorfinger. Not sure were Im going w this lol.

[T.wa.T]

I think I was gonna say, the scene after LA was all heroin n pretty depressing. For those caught in thwir adiction like Kurt n Andrew Wood, Layne I think dying was really their only option. Dont know if you know anyone whos ever been hooked on dope, but its horrific,and for most inescapable. So I guess its hard for me to sympathize w someone who could afford to finally take the time and spend the money to rehab,rather than self medicate to death.

[wasted]

Off the top of my head Come As You Are is the one that stands out, may be in the others it not so noticeable, but a line here and there was enough for me to lose interest. Not taking anything away from them/him. I get why his fans like him. I moved on to pearl jam ,aic, tool along side of GnR. Was a fan of Soundgarden to, Jesus Christ Pose, Rusty Cage, damn I forgot the name of the album before Badmotorfinger. Not sure were Im going w this lol.

"No, I don't have a gun"? I think it's about him distinguishing himself from local rednecks. That lyric made people think he was a hippie but later he got into guns probably via Burroughs.

But one I think is "Give Leonard Cohen afterworld so I can sigh eternally" from Penny Royal Tea.

There's no doubt on In Utero was dejected but there isn't an overt lyric apart from above. A lot of it is about the his situation in music, the birth of his daughter is kind of presented as a terrifying experience and humbling experience (All Apoliges. Serve the Servants, Rape Me, Frances Farmer, Very Ape seems very about his uncomfortable role in music) The rest are kind of back to his obsession with biology and medical imagery.

It's kind of that balance, bitch about his life/sing about cleaning products.

I did assume In Utero was a suicide note. I mean it could be the reasons why. But not really, it's not overt enough. It's like "I made peace with my dad", "I'm old and washed up and don't care", "here's a song about my wife giving birth", "here's one about a cool lesbian that is much like my wife" "the industry wants to rape me", "here's a song about abortion", "I'm really sorry about talking about sexism in interviews" - I'm not saying it's happy go lucky, it's heavy and dark and abstract.

[wasted]

I think I was gonna say, the scene after LA was all heroin n pretty depressing. For those caught in thwir adiction like Kurt n Andrew Wood, Layne I think dying was really their only option. Dont know if you know anyone whos ever been hooked on dope, but its horrific,and for most inescapable. So I guess its hard for me to sympathize w someone who could afford to finally take the time and spend the money to rehab,rather than self medicate to death.

Possibily but it's all over so quick. Obviously he got into counter culture, kind of realizes it's bullshit, but he's hooked. It's not just the drugs I would say, it's the whole mind set, not even to reject it, but to find something else. That's just who he was. I think maybe the money just enabled him to get more hooked. I could see him accepting he would die one day from OD. I don't get it really. I can just do avergae joe stuff like get a six pack of donkey piss and watch the game. I'm interested in some counter culture stuff. Some people can change I guess.

Authenticity is often a trait of a narcissist. It's like a pathology I guess. Their ideas and beliefs are very important to the person they projecting. They use the drugs to dull the rage they feel because they know deep down they arent real. The real person is broken, unacceptable. So you have this other self that is very idealistic. Artists can be very introverted and narcissistic. It's a very romantic, modernist, abstract expressionist view of an artist. Kurt was like the Picasso of rock.

[T.wa.T]

Its not so much the Come as you are lines,thise are obvious. In Smells like teen Spirit when hes singing about "the end" and his guitar is making a siren type of sound.It might have been intentional, but I dont think so. I think its more of a sub conscience feeling coming through. He is being brutally honest without even knowing. Kind of like, in Sweet Child for three quarters of the song Axl is being all lovey dovey, and all at once he explodes at the end,almost w rage. Again hes being brutally honest,and revealing something about himself, whether he knows it or not. Well said on Kurt at the end(no pun intended).

I think I was gonna say, the scene after LA was all heroin n pretty depressing. For those caught in thwir adiction like Kurt n Andrew Wood, Layne I think dying was really their only option. Dont know if you know anyone whos ever been hooked on dope, but its horrific,and for most inescapable. So I guess its hard for me to sympathize w someone who could afford to finally take the time and spend the money to rehab,rather than self medicate to death.

Possibily but it's all over so quick. Obviously he got into counter culture, kind of realizes it's bullshit, but he's hooked. It's not just the drugs I would say, it's the whole mind set, not even to reject it, but to find something else. That's just who he was. I think maybe the money just enabled him to get more hooked. I could see him accepting he would die one day from OD. I don't get it really. I can just do avergae joe stuff like get a six pack of donkey piss and watch the game. I'm interested in some counter culture stuff. Some people can change I guess.

Authenticity is often a trait of a narcissist. It's like a pathology I guess. Their ideas and beliefs are very important to the person they projecting. They use the drugs to dull the rage they feel because they know deep down they arent real. The real person is broken, unacceptable. So you have this other self that is very idealistic. Artists can be very introverted and narcissistic. It's a very romantic, modernist, abstract exp<b></b>ressionist view of an artist. Kurt was like the Picasso of rock.

[Johnny Drama]

I never really heard any suicidal themes. He was just a heroin addict, many heroin addicts kill themselves when in withdrawal, but yeah he wasn't in withdrawal he shot up enough to OD three normal people. But I guess it didn't have any effect. I think the Rome OD left him a shell of his former self. Internal organs were a mess, minor brain damage according one doctor, almost like a stroke victim. He was depressed though, he was meant to be on meds but wasn't taking them. It's not like he rationally decide to hurt everyone in his life. I don't think that is true. Suicide is normally a result of a cycle of pain that appears to the person as never going to end or change.

True, before it became about Kurt's stomach it was just a heavier, dirtier GNR plus that whole wave of bands. Soundgarden seemed more like GNR. Get on the Snake, Big Dumb Sex they covered part of it on Spag Incident.

1. Soundgarden were taking the piss out of glam bands with that shit.

2. Guns didn't have gay hair metal songs full of innuendo with probably the exception of Anything Goes.

[Redhead74]

I LOOOOOOOVED both albums. I was 17 at the time and it took me quite a long time to digest everything. There was quite a few songs I didnt care for that much but since there were so many to choose from it really didn't matter. I liked the synth additions at the time and still don't mind it. It was just a progression of their sound.

Today I appreciate some songs more now than I did at the time and that's because I was 17 then and am 38 now. Life happened inbetween and it gives you a different perspective on things.

[Ragnar]

Was in heaven when they came out.

There is a lot of filler. BUT releasing two albums allowed the band to release a large variety of music - so that made up for the average songs. Still listen to songs from these two albums on a weekly basis. For about a six year stretch they were the best band in the world. Nobody even came close to touching them.

That is what these new fans on here don't understand. The ones who worship Axl's every move, that hate Slash and that constantly insult the rest of us when we post that we wish Axl put out new music. From my senior year in high school until my last year of college, GnR were the BIGGEST and BEST band in the world. They were Rock Music and everybody else sucked hind tit behind them. So when we get frustrated over the lack of music over the past 20 years it isn't because we think he owes us something or we have a sense of entitlement. It's because we lived during the era when Axl and GnR simply ruled the music world. We know the magic he is able to create. And it is frustrating as a fan that he has chose to go a different path with his career.

Imagine if Michael Jordan had played 5 years and then retired...........then reappeared but only played in minor league and city league games. He promised he was going to rejoin the NBA, came back for one year and scored 25 points a game, then went back to playing in the minors. People would say he was wasting his talent. Same thing with Axl.

Yes, it is his career and he can do whatever he wants with it. He can tour the classic songs for the nex 20 years and never release new music again. But for anybody who is a fan of his or that is a fan of music - that is a huge loss. It is a shame that Beta and Axl seem to care more about lawsuits and feuds and fighting the "man' than they do about releasing music for Axl's MILLIONS of fans to enjoy.

Mostly agree but Slash`s supporters talk shit after shit after shit about Axl every day, all day and then they whine if they`re called out for their pitty venom and hatred they absolutely hate Axl when they run out of arguments they always play " different opinion we don`t worship him " card no one has anything against justified criticism but their behavior and posts show complete opposite they think talking as much shit about Axl as humanly possible while glorifying Slash makes them " real Gusn N`Rosse fans " taking sides is this " war " is borderline stupid

Edited January 25, 2013 by Son of a Guns

[wasted]

I never really heard any suicidal themes. He was just a heroin addict, many heroin addicts kill themselves when in withdrawal, but yeah he wasn't in withdrawal he shot up enough to OD three normal people. But I guess it didn't have any effect. I think the Rome OD left him a shell of his former self. Internal organs were a mess, minor brain damage according one doctor, almost like a stroke victim. He was depressed though, he was meant to be on meds but wasn't taking them. It's not like he rationally decide to hurt everyone in his life. I don't think that is true. Suicide is normally a result of a cycle of pain that appears to the person as never going to end or change.

True, before it became about Kurt's stomach it was just a heavier, dirtier GNR plus that whole wave of bands. Soundgarden seemed more like GNR. Get on the Snake, Big Dumb Sex they covered part of it on Spag Incident.

1. Soundgarden were taking the piss out of glam bands with that shit.

2. Guns didn't have gay hair metal songs full of innuendo with probably the exception of Anything Goes.

Get on the Snake does sound like a GNR song though. I just see Soundgarden as more metal than the other seattle bands. Louder Than Love is like Led Zepp.

Edited January 25, 2013 by wasted

[rodge]

I was 11, and those albums were the first CD's I ever owned! Man that makes me feel old...

I became a GnR fan because of the Illusions, I actually hadn't even heard AFD in its entirety, so I suppose you could say I went backwards. The Illusions blew me away, I was in love with both albums from the start. I remember playing GITR a bit too loud and my mom freaked out due to the language and tried to take the CD away. When she asked what band it was I told her it was Bon Jovi, so she took that and I kept my GnR!!

[Eu4ic]

Thought they were great. YCBM was awesome, LALD was a cool video, NR... Skid Row Monkey Business came out. '91 was a year in which the heavy rockers were releasing their new stuff, Skid Row, Metallica, Motley Crue's Dr Feelgood was a year or two old, Megadeth RIP. There were the beginnings of 'alternative' with Ugly Kid Joe, AIC, Nirvana. Pop music was also really huge with Madonna, Michael Jackson. It was a much more diverse, talented group of people than this SHIT today.

rodge, that's hilarious. I remember in 5th grade (1992 or 3) a learning disabled girl in my class told my teacher than I had a cassette tape that read "Butthole Surfers" on it, and she took it away (then gave it back).

Edited January 25, 2013 by Eu4ic

[November_rain]

I was around 12 or so when the UYIs were released and I remember playing them on a cassette portable player at school with a class mate who used to steal them from his older brother. I´ll be eternally grateful to this mate for introducing me to GNR´s music. I loved the UYIs although when all that Terminator advertising was around some time ( years?) later I must admit I ended hating You could be mine. That song was everywhere and it took me a few years to like it again.

[Johnny Drama]

I never really heard any suicidal themes. He was just a heroin addict, many heroin addicts kill themselves when in withdrawal, but yeah he wasn't in withdrawal he shot up enough to OD three normal people. But I guess it didn't have any effect. I think the Rome OD left him a shell of his former self. Internal organs were a mess, minor brain damage according one doctor, almost like a stroke victim. He was depressed though, he was meant to be on meds but wasn't taking them. It's not like he rationally decide to hurt everyone in his life. I don't think that is true. Suicide is normally a result of a cycle of pain that appears to the person as never going to end or change.

True, before it became about Kurt's stomach it was just a heavier, dirtier GNR plus that whole wave of bands. Soundgarden seemed more like GNR. Get on the Snake, Big Dumb Sex they covered part of it on Spag Incident.

1. Soundgarden were taking the piss out of glam bands with that shit.

2. Guns didn't have gay hair metal songs full of innuendo with probably the exception of Anything Goes.

Get on the Snake does sound like a GNR song though. I just see Soundgarden as more metal than the other seattle bands. Louder Than Love is like Led Zepp.

No way man that beat is a clear rip from Misty Mountain Hop nothing GN'R. They were much more Sabbath than Zeppelin.