What phase of Axl's grand plan are we in?

[Rustycage]

They used to spend any expense on touring because it was seen as promoting the album, and the record sales is where a band made it's money.

Record sales isn't where the band made their money. It hasn't been that way at all for GNR. Even during GNR's prime, nearly all bands would only see about 1 dollar per album sold. Some worse. Nothing has changed in terms of that except for the climate of the industry making record deals harder to acquire.

[magisme]

[wasted]

I guess Axl made the record he wanted and now he's touring it.

I wonder kind of record they are wanting to make next.

[Modano09]

They used to spend any expense on touring because it was seen as promoting the album, and the record sales is where a band made it's money.

Record sales isn't where the band made their money. It hasn't been that way at all for GNR. Even during GNR's prime, nearly all bands would only see about 1 dollar per album sold. Some worse. Nothing has changed in terms of that except for the climate of the industry making record deals harder to acquire.

Just going by Duff's book where he said the reason they'd tour so much, and pour so much money into a tour is because it was used to promote the album. Breaking even on the show was fine as long as they increased record sales.

[Rustycage]

They used to spend any expense on touring because it was seen as promoting the album, and the record sales is where a band made it's money.

Record sales isn't where the band made their money. It hasn't been that way at all for GNR. Even during GNR's prime, nearly all bands would only see about 1 dollar per album sold. Some worse. Nothing has changed in terms of that except for the climate of the industry making record deals harder to acquire.

Just going by Duff's book where he said the reason they'd tour so much, and pour so much money into a tour is because it was used to promote the album. Breaking even on the show was fine as long as they increased record sales.

The nature of the business isn't for bands to make money on the album. The record company sets the contracts up to pay a smallish signing bonus and reap the profits from record sales.

But your Duff claim there isn't saying that most of their money came from the records. Surely it does now but the amount of money in the band's take from touring is a ton more than 1 dollar per album.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Rustycage

[Nosaj Thing]

The "I sleep I drink I eat and you watch" phase.

[Modano09]

They used to spend any expense on touring because it was seen as promoting the album, and the record sales is where a band made it's money.

Record sales isn't where the band made their money. It hasn't been that way at all for GNR. Even during GNR's prime, nearly all bands would only see about 1 dollar per album sold. Some worse. Nothing has changed in terms of that except for the climate of the industry making record deals harder to acquire.

Just going by Duff's book where he said the reason they'd tour so much, and pour so much money into a tour is because it was used to promote the album. Breaking even on the show was fine as long as they increased record sales.

The nature of the business isn't for bands to make money on the album. The record company sets the contracts up to pay a smallish signing bonus and reap the profits from record sales.

But your Duff claim there isn't saying that most of their money came from the records. Surely it does now but the amount of money in the band's take from touring is a ton more than 1 dollar per album.

I just re-read it - he said the idea was to use the tour to promote the album and make their money from the bands share of the record sales. They would play stadiums but weren't making any money because of the tour expenses.

[Rustycage]

They used to spend any expense on touring because it was seen as promoting the album, and the record sales is where a band made it's money.

Record sales isn't where the band made their money. It hasn't been that way at all for GNR. Even during GNR's prime, nearly all bands would only see about 1 dollar per album sold. Some worse. Nothing has changed in terms of that except for the climate of the industry making record deals harder to acquire.

Just going by Duff's book where he said the reason they'd tour so much, and pour so much money into a tour is because it was used to promote the album. Breaking even on the show was fine as long as they increased record sales.

The nature of the business isn't for bands to make money on the album. The record company sets the contracts up to pay a smallish signing bonus and reap the profits from record sales.

But your Duff claim there isn't saying that most of their money came from the records. Surely it does now but the amount of money in the band's take from touring is a ton more than 1 dollar per album.

I just re-read it - he said the idea was to use the tour to promote the album and make their money from the bands share of the record sales. They would play stadiums but weren't making any money because of the tour expenses.

So you're trying to deny that the whole album setup with every record company doesn't exist? lol

The tour costs were because of Axl's outrageous parties. Not because that's the way the business is structured. They hardly made anything on the first leg of the UYI tour because of Axl's wasteful spending. The very thing that upset the rest of the band(which Duff is alluding to).

You're kind of arguing against reality here. You seem to think bands make the money from the sales and the record company makes the money from touring? That's backwards. It's the simple facts of the business that majority of all record deals are set up for the record company to take a huge majority of the profit. They typically fund, market and distribute the product and therefore, take the huge percentage. It's pretty simple, man.

The record company recovered their costs of CD through the best buy deal. The band is making their money off of the tours.

[Modano09]

They used to spend any expense on touring because it was seen as promoting the album, and the record sales is where a band made it's money.

Record sales isn't where the band made their money. It hasn't been that way at all for GNR. Even during GNR's prime, nearly all bands would only see about 1 dollar per album sold. Some worse. Nothing has changed in terms of that except for the climate of the industry making record deals harder to acquire.

Just going by Duff's book where he said the reason they'd tour so much, and pour so much money into a tour is because it was used to promote the album. Breaking even on the show was fine as long as they increased record sales.

The nature of the business isn't for bands to make money on the album. The record company sets the contracts up to pay a smallish signing bonus and reap the profits from record sales.

But your Duff claim there isn't saying that most of their money came from the records. Surely it does now but the amount of money in the band's take from touring is a ton more than 1 dollar per album.

I just re-read it - he said the idea was to use the tour to promote the album and make their money from the bands share of the record sales. They would play stadiums but weren't making any money because of the tour expenses.

So you're trying to deny that the whole album setup with every record company doesn't exist? lol

The tour costs were because of Axl's outrageous parties. Not because that's the way the business is structured. They hardly made anything on the first leg of the UYI tour because of Axl's wasteful spending. The very thing that upset the rest of the band(which Duff is alluding to).

You're kind of arguing against reality here. You seem to think bands make the money from the sales and the record company makes the money from touring? That's backwards. It's the simple facts of the business that majority of all record deals are set up for the record company to take a huge majority of the profit. They typically fund, market and distribute the product and therefore, take the huge percentage. It's pretty simple, man.

The record company recovered their costs of CD through the best buy deal. The band is making their money off of the tours.

What am I arguing? I'm saying that a member of Guns N'Roses, in his book, wrote that today bands tour with as little expense as possible because touring is how a band makes the majority of their income these days - but back then, playing stadiums and just breaking even didn't bother them because promoting the album was the objective of touring and the band made most of their money from record sales. If you don't believe that bands made the lion share of their money from album sales in the early 90's find Duff on twitter and discuss it with him - I'm just repeating what he wrote, and he's under the impression that breaking even on a tour in the 90's was okay because the goal was to increase record sales.

[Rustycage]

But it did bother them, Modano. They were pissed about Axl wasting money on stupid after-parties, late starts and other luxuries.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Rustycage

[Modano09]

But it did bother them, Modano. They were pissed about Axl wasting money on stupid after-parties, late starts and other luxuries.

I guess I shouldn't say it didn't bother them, it was costing them money afterall. But he doesn't talk about as if it was one of his big issues. It might just be the way it comes across in writing but he doesn't seem to be angry or complaining about it as much as just stating facts.

The things that did bother him were the late starts and the no shows because it was turning the fans against them and they were drinking/drugging themselves because of it. But yeah, I'm sure playing to 7 million people and breaking even wasn't seen as good thing but the philisophy was that the record sales were more important.

[Rustycage]

But it did bother them, Modano. They were pissed about Axl wasting money on stupid after-parties, late starts and other luxuries.

I guess I shouldn't say it didn't bother them, it was costing them money afterall. But he doesn't talk about as if it was one of his big issues. It might just be the way it comes across in writing but he doesn't seem to be angry or complaining about it as much as just stating facts.

The things that did bother him were the late starts and the no shows because it was turning the fans against them and they were drinking/drugging themselves because of it. But yeah, I'm sure playing to 7 million people and breaking even wasn't seen as good thing but the philisophy was that the record sales were more important.

Well, I wouldn't deduct too much from that. It could be twisted several ways. You could say that they just wanted to sell records. I could say that record sale profit is the one profit untouchable by other members or that they just wanted the fans to hear the music.

It was a big issue for them all. They, many times, tried to find a way to stop the late and no shows.

The tour and record sales are two hands that wash each other but like I was clarifying before, touring is more times than not where the bulk of a band's income comes from when there is a demand. The tour promotes the album and the album gathers the audience.

I will admit though that it wouldn't surprise me if the money aspect wasn't the biggest issue since Izzy preferred smaller venues, Duff, with his punk background, may have also preferred the same and Slash just wanted to be on the road and working. But it was that naivety that allowed the commercial aspect of GNR get taken over and controlled.

[Modano09]

But it did bother them, Modano. They were pissed about Axl wasting money on stupid after-parties, late starts and other luxuries.

I guess I shouldn't say it didn't bother them, it was costing them money afterall. But he doesn't talk about as if it was one of his big issues. It might just be the way it comes across in writing but he doesn't seem to be angry or complaining about it as much as just stating facts.

The things that did bother him were the late starts and the no shows because it was turning the fans against them and they were drinking/drugging themselves because of it. But yeah, I'm sure playing to 7 million people and breaking even wasn't seen as good thing but the philisophy was that the record sales were more important.

Well, I wouldn't deduct too much from that. It could be twisted several ways. You could say that they just wanted to sell records. I could say that record sale profit is the one profit untouchable by other members or that they just wanted the fans to hear the music.

It was a big issue for them all. They, many times, tried to find a way to stop the late and no shows.

The tour and record sales are two hands that wash each other but like I was clarifying before, touring is more times than not where the bulk of a band's income comes from when there is a demand. The tour promotes the album and the album gathers the audience.

I will admit though that it wouldn't surprise me if the money aspect wasn't the biggest issue since Izzy preferred smaller venues, Duff, with his punk background, may have also preferred the same and Slash just wanted to be on the road and working. But it was that naivety that allowed the commercial aspect of GNR get taken over and controlled.

Hey, it seemed backwards to me to - at one point they'd played to over 7 million people (all shows combined) and were breaking even - but it seems to make more sense to me, then and now, to promote the concert and try to make as much as you can from there - 7 million people paid money to see the show. Not all 7 million people are going to go out and buy the record and as mentioned the band got a small percentage of that income anyway. Maybe they just didn't run the numbers to understand there was more money to be had by cutting out the unnecessary tour expenses than trying to promote the album.

They definately didn't like the late shows and tried to stop them, Duff just doesn't make it sound like it was financially motivated. And that might be him trying to come off as fans-first but he complains more about the fans being upset because they can't be there all night and the band getting drunk/high waiting than he does the money from fines, etc from late starts.

[slimrhcp]

80% of Democracy was written by 1998-9 (the exception being the three Bucket tracks); we know this because of the existence of the demos. These songs are therefore thirteen years' old!

What were the later tracks you're referencing?

I seem to remember reading Better, SR, and Scraped were among the youngest songs for CD (written around 2003-04?).