Ron: "If we recorded an album it would be absolutely different from Chinese Democracy"

[Nosaj Thing]

He should upload the rest of chidem martial for free, then fake his death.

hahaha and run away to Argentina to live as an unknown like some nazi leaders.

Ha! This was funny.

[Rustycage]

He should upload the rest of chidem material for free, then fake his death.

He could make a little bank if he took advantage of a very cheap outlet like Itunes. Even though they only get about 10 cents per song if a label is involved, it's still better than the material sitting on the shelf.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Rustycage

[T.wa.T]

So now Dizzy is the end all be all,, wasnt he torn to shit for saying this is the real Guns...

When he says he doesn't know the answer, why shouldn't that answer be trusted? Not a good comparison there.

So when Axl says we are working it out with the label, thats not good enough?

C'mon man. Given his track record, no, it is not good enough.

You do realise all the shit he went through to get his band to where it is again. Wether you like it or not, hes got other shit goin on besides making a record.

Yes. Poor Axl.

So why complain all day long?

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Axl is like an unarmed robber surrounded by a swat team[record label], throwing down the gauntlet and demanding negotiations on his terms. While the guys with the machine guns[record label] try not to openly laugh in his face.

The only card Axl has left to play that would interest the label is a reunion [out of the question] or opening up the vault and releasing live shows/outtakes/DVDs of the old band. Again out of the question.

Which leaves him precisely where he is, touring while his band get increasingly bored and frustrated twiddling their thumbs.

May well be some truth to this. In that situation IMHO Axl's best move would be to agree to a true "Best of..." album (i.e. with "Nightrain", "Brownstone", "Coma", etc.) of "classic" material with his 3 best Chinese "left-over" tracks tacked on to the end (OR his 2 best left-over tracks and an official re-release of "Better" as a single with label backing, etc.). Seems like Van Halen did that one or two times in the Van Hagar years to great effect...

[Guest NGOG]

Because the current line-up haven't recorded a song exclusive to them doesn't confirm an album to be a mere pipedream. As Bumblefoot has repeated with much frustration many times, Axl is totally intent on a second installment of material from the Chinese Democracy sessions. Which means that Ron isn't getting a studio related call any time soon because he is confirmed to have recorded parts for the follow-up to Chinese Democracy years ago. Even 4tus stated that if studio time were to happen it would be to 'finish a record', not start. When Axl sorts out the situation with the/a label, what we'll be getting is Chinese Democracy II feat new additions from the 2009 line-up. Pretty awesome for us, quite annoying for innovators like Ron.

[Guns n' Swedes]

Maybe Axl simply think it's a lot of fun touring the world in his jet, going to parties and make money.

It could be he simply don't want to make a record due to that.

[Black Roses]

Or run away to China and live in its democracy.

[Facekicker]

I've often wondered how many of these "songs" are actually songs at all...like what constitutes a song to Axl? Is it a listenable demo or is it just a few notes here, a few notes there, a few lyrics and a basic drum track that he wants to work into a song?

It would be really interesting if the record label agreed to his terms in the morning and offer full support as to how much work would remain on Axl's behalf to get the album out there.

I don't buy that he has 30+ finished songs ready to release. I always thought that was thrown out there for other people's ears.

[T.wa.T]

"Champ, with the big record labels, it IS all about the money. Labels have put out songs that artist's thought were not worthy for many years now. The label put out a whole album of songs that LeAnn Rimes did not want released. Well the label paid for the studio time and had her under contract. It damn well happened. Oasis were forced to put out a greatest hits album against their wishes.

Do they want the best possible product? Sure. Are they happy waiting 9 years for it? Obviously not. Not while music sales get further into the toilet per year. Pfft, like the record label can dictate a reunion. They would absolutely love it but Axl is not willing.

Don't smoke screen it with George and Prince? They may have nothing to do with GnR but they have plenty to do with labels which you know little about. Oh wait, yeh, I'm sure the label are content with waiting until 2050 for a good song from Axl..."

Leann Rimes is a piss ant compared to GnR, in the music business.

No the label cant dictate a reunion. Axl doesnt have to do it.

Great George Michael and Prince know about labels, but theirs doesnt purtain to Guns...

Again if the contract states X amount of records in X amount of time, why havent they sued Axl?

[Rustycage]

Leann Rimes is a piss ant compared to GnR, in the music business.

As of today, not really.

No the label cant dictate a reunion. Axl doesnt have to do it.

And they don't have to release what Axl wants. Classic stalemate that Axl got himself into.

Again if the contract states X amount of records in X amount of time, why havent they sued Axl?

They don't have to sue. Axl is the one backed into the corner with those terms. The only thing they would get from suing would be the songs they don't care to release. Waste of time for them, obviously.

[T.wa.T]

Sorry man but I fail to see the connection w Leann Rimes and GnR.

Stalemate? Axl doesnt want to do it case closed, Im not gonna get into a pissing contest about who quit, got fired, whatever because thats where it would go.

Its not a waste if some of those songs are slated to be released when finished. The question is, How close are they to being finished, 80%, 40%?? Who Knows. Which is really the bottom line..lol

[Facekicker]

Imagine if there had been no best buy deal and CD was just released like a regular record. The record company would have lost most of their investment. They burnt Best Buy big time by selling them that turkey, it was quite the business move on their end. But it also ensured that no other exclusive deal would ever be offered to Axl's GNR. It exposed the band as a bad investment but the record company got their money, don't give a shit and probably don't expect anything from Axl again after what he delivered with countless millions and everything he could ask for in support.

The record company frankly don't need to waste another iota of time or money on Axl again. Why put up with that bullshit circus when you don't have to? They survived for a decade without a GNR album and they proved they don't need him to ensure the viability of the company. Axl is nothing but a liability these days, an annoying prima donna who hasn't realised that the world has moved on and he isn't the star he once was. He's a relic.

[izzydoezit]

I wonder if Best Buy had listened to the album before agreeing to buy it.

[volcano62]

Imagine if there had been no best buy deal and CD was just released like a regular record. The record company would have lost most of their investment. They burnt Best Buy big time by selling them that turkey, it was quite the business move on their end. But it also ensured that no other exclusive deal would ever be offered to Axl's GNR. It exposed the band as a bad investment but the record company got their money, don't give a shit and probably don't expect anything from Axl again after what he delivered with countless millions and everything he could ask for in support.

The record company frankly don't need to waste another iota of time or money on Axl again. Why put up with that bullshit circus when you don't have to? They survived for a decade without a GNR album and they proved they don't need him to ensure the viability of the company. Axl is nothing but a liability these days, an annoying prima donna who hasn't realised that the world has moved on and he isn't the star he once was. He's a relic.

CD would have sold much better in the US if not for the Bestbuy deal. I have friends in the US that have to drive over an hour to get to a Bestbuy.

[Facekicker]

Yeah no shit. Guy must have been deaf and high.

[Young_Gun]

"Champ, with the big record labels, it IS all about the money. Labels have put out songs that artist's thought were not worthy for many years now. The label put out a whole album of songs that LeAnn Rimes did not want released. Well the label paid for the studio time and had her under contract. It damn well happened. Oasis were forced to put out a greatest hits album against their wishes.

Do they want the best possible product? Sure. Are they happy waiting 9 years for it? Obviously not. Not while music sales get further into the toilet per year. Pfft, like the record label can dictate a reunion. They would absolutely love it but Axl is not willing.

Don't smoke screen it with George and Prince? They may have nothing to do with GnR but they have plenty to do with labels which you know little about. Oh wait, yeh, I'm sure the label are content with waiting until 2050 for a good song from Axl..."

Leann Rimes is a piss ant compared to GnR, in the music business.

No the label cant dictate a reunion. Axl doesnt have to do it.

Great George Michael and Prince know about labels, but theirs doesnt purtain to Guns...

Again if the contract states X amount of records in X amount of time, why havent they sued Axl?

Hmmm Leanne Rimes may be a piss ant but things like that go on everywhere. She was/is signed to MGM who then got taken over.

I was referring to George Michael's and Prince's affairs with labels because they hold the artist at a stranglehold. Prince was putting out records in rapid succession to get out of his contract. The label also forced him to trim Crystal Ball from 3 disks to 2. All sorts of creative, promotion and managerial influences are exerted from the label to the artist. George Michael was unhappy with the choice of singles the label decided on for his second solo album. He believed they had acted carelessly and their decisions without his approval lead to average sales. There is always conflict between band and label. Michael Jackson went through it too.

I think(opinion) that the record have a dilemma in that they paid for most of the studio time and salaries on the band up until 2004 or 2006(when it became Axl's responsibility), they then put out the Greatest Hits against Axl's wishes to recoup some of the funds(which worked tremendously). They hooked up the Best Buy deal so the burden of promotion and distribution and packaging was relieved and rushed the release without Axl's approval of booklet, promotion etc. They have made their money back and then some. The reason I think they haven't sued Axl is because is because they still hold out hope for a reunion. Maybe less so now because of Axl's non-appearance at the HOF. But suing him would surely severe all ties to the possibility of a reunion. I think the record label want Axl to comply with their reunion wishes in order to promote and release his current band's efforts...

[izzydoezit]

If BB hadn't bought all those CDs then probably the album would have sold half of what it did in the USA.

Edited February 6, 2013 by izzydoezit

[Rustycage]

Imagine if there had been no best buy deal and CD was just released like a regular record. The record company would have lost most of their investment. They burnt Best Buy big time by selling them that turkey, it was quite the business move on their end. But it also ensured that no other exclusive deal would ever be offered to Axl's GNR. It exposed the band as a bad investment but the record company got their money, don't give a shit and probably don't expect anything from Axl again after what he delivered with countless millions and everything he could ask for in support.

The record company frankly don't need to waste another iota of time or money on Axl again. Why put up with that bullshit circus when you don't have to? They survived for a decade without a GNR album and they proved they don't need him to ensure the viability of the company. Axl is nothing but a liability these days, an annoying prima donna who hasn't realised that the world has moved on and he isn't the star he once was. He's a relic.

CD would have sold much better in the US if not for the Bestbuy deal. I have friends in the US that have to drive over an hour to get to a Bestbuy.

Yeah because ordering online is hard stuff.

[Young_Gun]

Imagine if there had been no best buy deal and CD was just released like a regular record. The record company would have lost most of their investment. They burnt Best Buy big time by selling them that turkey, it was quite the business move on their end. But it also ensured that no other exclusive deal would ever be offered to Axl's GNR. It exposed the band as a bad investment but the record company got their money, don't give a shit and probably don't expect anything from Axl again after what he delivered with countless millions and everything he could ask for in support.

The record company frankly don't need to waste another iota of time or money on Axl again. Why put up with that bullshit circus when you don't have to? They survived for a decade without a GNR album and they proved they don't need him to ensure the viability of the company. Axl is nothing but a liability these days, an annoying prima donna who hasn't realised that the world has moved on and he isn't the star he once was. He's a relic.

I really agree with all of this. Also no retail chain is going to offer an exclusive release to GnR after the Axl no show and label dropping the ball.

[Facekicker]

Yeah how many of the albums still sit in the bargain bin at $1.99?

[volcano62]

If BB hadn't bought all those CDs then probably the album would have sold half of what it did in the USA.

Store deliveries don't count as sales

[ManetsBR]

It doesn't matter how many copies CD sold. Let's work with the following numbers:

-36 songs

-14 million dollars

-14 songs released.

Axl used 14 million dollars on 36 songs, what makes 388,888 per song.

Best Buy paied 14 million for 14 songs, what makes a million per song. That's a huge profit. The way I see it, the only reason Axl agreed to release Chinese Democracy was because, with that deal, he would have profit even it sold zero copies.

[Facekicker]

Best Buy were absolute suckers.

[izzydoezit]

So he spent 14 million and he made 14 million according to this? Where is the profit?

[classicrawker]

It doesn't matter how many copies CD sold. Let's work with the following numbers:

-36 songs

-14 million dollars

-14 songs released.

Axl used 14 million dollars on 36 songs, what makes 388,888 per song.

Best Buy paied 14 million for 14 songs, what makes a million per song. That's a huge profit. The way I see it, the only reason Axl agreed to release Chinese Democracy was because, with that deal, he would have profit even it sold zero copies.

Axl did not get 14 Million mate the label did and Axl prompty went about spending just about every penny in recording costs...........