Do the final versions of CD songs live up to their potential

[username]

As far as I'm concerned - hell no!

Now, some regular posters might think I hate anything CD. But the opposite is probably true on the subject of song quality. I think these songs are essentially great. But I must say listening to the final product (I just did) makes me a little sad thinking how it could have been. The final versions are SO produced, SO layered and SO bloated.

Just check out these demo mixes from roughly 1999:

IRS:

TWAT:

Catcher:

That, to me, is what the entire CD album should have been like. Much less production and layering. These demo's feel like fucking kickass rock songs instead of bloated overproduced monstrosities. Much more simple, direct and in your face. To me, what GnR should be. Imagine hearing a version of the entire CD album done like this!

Other great examples are the early live versions of CD, Rhiad, Maddy and especially The Blues:

The Blues live in 2002 (Boston):

And then there's the industrial production of Oh My God. Fucking great! I think it would have done great on a song like Rhiad or CD. Maybe even Shacklers.

OMG:

Am I alone in strongly preferring all of this over the final product?

Edit:

Bonus question: The Beatles released Let It Be: Naked. A version of Let It Be with much simpler mixing and production. More Paul's vision of the album. My question: Would you buy a similar CD product? The early, straight forward industrial mixing 2000 version of the album basically.

Edited February 28, 2013 by username

[jimb0]

The demos don't sound finished, but they sure sound a lot more groovy and bad ass than the polished bullshit that wound up on the album. Over production killed all roots of a rock n' roll sound.

[Bansidhe]

The demos don't sound finished, but they sure sound a lot more groovy and bad ass than the polished bullshit that wound up on the album. Over production killed all roots of a rock n' roll sound.

I think it's because we're used to hearing the finished version then going back and listening to earlier mixes which weren't nearly as dense that they sound unfinished. Also the quality of the early leaks wasn't brilliant.

[Demesne]

Absolutely not. That's the drama of CD. It could have been a great album. But Axl and the producers made countless bad decisions, undermining its potential and quality. CD, SOD, TWAT, Catcher, IRS or Prostitute are clear examples of this. I just wish Axl would have stayed away from the production duties, he or Caram made a lot of lousy choices.

[Millions]

Madagascar , in particular for me, was just completely ruined. Compare the early Rock In Rio version - with the fucking brilliant melodic Buckethead guitar solo - to the dead, lifeless version on the album. Tragic.

[jimb0]

They killed 'The Blues.' I loved the RIR 3 Version with the guitars in the beginning, and the tempo of it. I also love the OK never mind part haha. The final version sucks compared to the 2001 version.

[AndreCC]

They ruined Better, There was a time and Better. They made If The World, Catcher in the Rye and Riad better though

[Allen8R]

enn too The Oh

[Allen8R]

Really though, that version of the blues was nothing short of Excellence. Shame the 02 tour only had a handful of great moments like that.

They killed 'The Blues.' I loved the RIR 3 Version with the guitars in the beginning, and the tempo of it. I also love the OK never mind part haha. The final version sucks compared to the 2001 version.

Like

[F*ck Fear]

There are three tracks on the album I preferred live at different times.

Street Of Dreams was far better in 2002 when it was The Blues.

IRS is always better live.

And Madagascar from the 2002 tour. I listen to the Boston soundboard much more often than the studio cut.

[Apollo]

Great post and you hit the nail on the head.

Sometimes - actually a lot of the time - less is better than more in terms of music.

The demos/leaks had way more raw energy to them.

Axl fine-tuned these songs to DEATH.

Hopefully on the next album he won't do that.

The songs and the band should be the star or the hero - not the production tools used.

[Ana_1991]

Over produced. Demo versions were much better!

[axlrosefan1]

What bothers me about CD is that it seems like there is so much going on at once in some songs. It seems so unnecessarily messy.

For ex. on some songs, I want to really cue in on Bucket's playing but there is some elephant sound effect that is bugging the shit the out of me. Along with what seems like a million other things going on at once.

Edited March 1, 2013 by axlrosefan1

[Allen8R]

What bothers me about CD is that it seems like there is so much going on at once in some songs. It seems so unnecessarily messy.

For ex. on some songs, I want to really cue in on Bucket's playing but there is some elephant sound effect that is bugging the shit the out of me. Along with what seems like a million other things going on at once.

It's true. When you listen to all of the separate tracks with everything apart, you hear some wonderful shit going on.. ... .... ....

But it's like having 45 beautiful women suck your cock and lick your balls at once. there is simply too much going on to really appreciate or even feel it all at once. It's simply over done.

A8R

Edited March 1, 2013 by Allen8R

[James Bond]

But it's like having 45 beautiful women suck your cock and lick your balls at once. there is simply too much going on to really appreciate or even feel it all at once. It's simply over done.

You know, I've never looked at CD quite like that before.

[axlrosefan1]

What bothers me about CD is that it seems like there is so much going on at once in some songs. It seems so unnecessarily messy.

For ex. on some songs, I want to really cue in on Bucket's playing but there is some elephant sound effect that is bugging the shit the out of me. Along with what seems like a million other things going on at once.

It's true. When you listen to all of the separate tracks with everything apart, you hear some wonderful shit going on.. ... .... ....

But it's like having 45 beautiful women suck your cock and lick your balls at once. there is simply too much going on to really appreciate or even feel it all at once. It's simply over done.

A8R

Honestly, I don't think there is a better analogy than that one. Kudos.

[jimb0]

What bothers me about CD is that it seems like there is so much going on at once in some songs. It seems so unnecessarily messy.

For ex. on some songs, I want to really cue in on Bucket's playing but there is some elephant sound effect that is bugging the shit the out of me. Along with what seems like a million other things going on at once.

It's true. When you listen to all of the separate tracks with everything apart, you hear some wonderful shit going on.. ... .... ....

But it's like having 45 beautiful women suck your cock and lick your balls at once. there is simply too much going on to really appreciate or even feel it all at once. It's simply over done.

A8R

I hate when that happens

[The Seeker]

The only demo I really strongly prefer to the final version is Catcher. I like complex music, if I'm not listening to a compressed format and on a good stereo it's pretty impressive and I enjoy it how it was done. I also really love OMG and I always have. I wish there was more material like that out there.

[jimb0]

The only demo I really strongly prefer to the final version is Catcher. I like complex music, if I'm not listening to a compressed format and on a good stereo it's pretty impressive and I enjoy it how it was done. I also really love OMG and I always have. I wish there was more material like that out there.

I really do wish there was a lot harder material like OMG on the album. We got...Shackler's. That's really the only hard song on the album.

[trqster]

Axl is all about overproduction since...well the UYI albums with double low/high voice recordings, synths & whatever else was going on and it's got much worse still with CD.

That's the reason why some songs on CD actually sound better live than on the record, even though Axl even playing live is still crazy about overdoing it with too many guitar players and 2(!!) keyboard players... Axl's delusional vision for his nuGn'R at its best.

Edited March 1, 2013 by trqster

[wasted]

It great though. UYI sounds flat and Matts drums just clunk along on every track. But for those songs it works. But with CD, Nevermind, RATM, Faith no more are all pretty polished.

Only ones for me are SOD and Catcher seem like could be illusion era production.

Maybe a live album would help. I prefer Live era to Afd or uyi these days.

[JimMorrison4]

What bothers me about CD is that it seems like there is so much going on at once in some songs. It seems so unnecessarily messy.

For ex. on some songs, I want to really cue in on Bucket's playing but there is some elephant sound effect that is bugging the shit the out of me. Along with what seems like a million other things going on at once.

It's true. When you listen to all of the separate tracks with everything apart, you hear some wonderful shit going on.. ... .... ....

But it's like having 45 beautiful women suck your cock and lick your balls at once. there is simply too much going on to really appreciate or even feel it all at once. It's simply over done.

A8R

That sums it up nicely!

[tr420]

I hate when people say this album was over produced. It's Guns n Roses. It's not a garage band. What do you expect? Also, it's no more over produced than any other album out these days.

Also, it was mastered brilliantly. They purposely chose the least compressed version. Check this out.

http://mastering-media.blogspot.com/2008/11/loudness-wars-are-over-if-you-want-it.html?m=1

[Screamin' Demon]

Fuck no! The final product is god awful in comparison to the demos that were totally badass. Axl wasted 8 years just to make the tracks far worse and remove any elements that could have made it a good record.

[username]

But it's like having 45 beautiful women suck your cock and lick your balls at once. there is simply too much going on to really appreciate or even feel it all at once. It's simply over done.

You know, I've never looked at CD quite like that before.

That's because the final product feels like those 45 women all put on strapons and started raping your ass. They're still beautiful women, but you don't experience them as such at the time.