The term NuGnR

[izzydoezit]

85-93 = Guns N' Roses.

Post 01 is nuGNR.

I don't know what the hell today's band is. It's not even really a band I think.

[Guest NGOG]

Hell, I'll bet that 90 percent of the people who show up to a GNR show today wouldn't be able to get the name of one GNR lead guitarist right.

You would lose that bet. First of all, you've inadvertently downplayed the popularity of Dj Ashba. There is a significant percentage of a GNR crowd that have been attracted to the production on the basis of Dj alone. Secondly, the power of the internet has increeased rapidly in seven years, the odds are prior to buying their tickets online most people will have engaged in thirty seconds of research that would clarify any questions regarding line-up.

[Guest NGOG]

Axl Rose, Tracii Guns, Izzy Stradlin, Ole Beich, Rob Gardner



Axl, Izzy, Slash Hudson, Duff McKagan, Steven Adler



Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff, Dizzy Reed, Matt Sorum



Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Gilby Clarke



Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Paul Tobias



Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Paul, Zakk Wylde



Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Paul



Axl, Dizzy, Paul, Tommy Stinson, Josh Freese, Robin Finck, Chris Pitman



Axl, Dizzy, Paul, Tommy, Robin, Chris, Buckethead, Bryan Mantia



Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Robin, Chris, Buckethead, Bryan, Richard Fortus



Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Robin, Chris, Bryan, Richard, Bumblefoot

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG

Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Robin, Chris, Richard, Bumblefoot, Frank Ferrer

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG

Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Chris, Richard, Bumblefoot, Frank Ferrer, Dj Ashba

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPGhttp://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPGhttp://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG

Edited April 21, 2013 by NGOG

[Guest bellastar2355]

Hell, I'll bet that 90 percent of the people who show up to a GNR show today wouldn't be able to get the name of one GNR lead guitarist right.

You would lose that bet. First of all, you've inadvertently downplayed the popularity of Dj Ashba. There is a significant percentage of a GNR crowd that have been attracted to the production on the basis of Dj alone. Secondly, the power of the internet has increeased rapidly in seven years, the odds are prior to buying their tickets online most people will have engaged in thirty seconds of research that would clarify any questions regarding line-up.

He might not be too popular here, but the man has fans

Edited April 21, 2013 by bellastar2355

[SoulMonster]

I don't know what the hell today's band is. It's not even really a band I think.

No, because they aren't a "group of musicians who play together".

It's okay to not like the current lineup. It's okay to not be happy with how GN'R has evolved. But it is still a band. And that band's name is still Guns N' Roses. By scornfully rejecting to refer to it as a "band" or as "Guns N' Roses", rather than succinctly pointing out your disappointment, you just come off as butthurt and immature.

[Tyler Drama]

I look at it pretty simple. Guns N Roses to me is anyone who was a member from AFD thru UYI. NUGuns is everything after. I know it's vague, but that's wher I draw the line.

Agree.

IMO real Gn'R died after ALL the original lineup members, bar Axl, left the band... What came after was/is Axl's band that he opted to maintain the original band name.

So GN'R died when Izzy left the band?

It certainly didn't help the 'cause'...but as I said before imo Gn'R died when ALL the original founding members (except for Axl) left the band.

Izzy was the last original member to leave the band, when he left, only Axl remained as an original band member. I think you are thinking about the "other original" lineup or what some refer to as the "first nuGuns" or, personally, "the AFD lineup"

[Crash Diet]

Is anyone else irritated with the term NuGnR? Tommy has been in the band longer than Duff, Frank has been the longest drummer and Richard the longest rhythm guitarist. I think the band has put in enough hours to be considered Guns N' Roses without additional or derogatory labels. The original Gn'R lineup went 12 years and it has been 12 years since the re-emergence. I think labels like NuGn'R just hold the band back. I personally liked Chinese Democracy and it has far less filler than UYI 1 and 2. Oh and for the record, I'm thirty eight and have been a fan since 87, so not a bandwagoner. I've been there at the peak, the decade of silence and the build up over the last 12 years.

This is not a derogatory label. The band released only one fucking album since the classic members gone. Plus Axl tried to be "modern" in the early 2000's when Nu Metal and electronic music mixed with rock or metal was popular, this is why called them Nu GNR. It doesn't really matter how long have you been in the band, the only thing matters is the music that you create in this band

But i consider the 1999-2002 lineup the Nu lineup

"Old guns" and "new guns" is pretty imprecise. The band is Guns N' Roses, period. Then we can refer to specific lineups if need be.

really?

Even Axl demarcate the bands periods calling them old lineup or old guns etc.

Truth is the truth hurts don't you agree?

I look at it pretty simple. Guns N Roses to me is anyone who was a member from AFD thru UYI. NUGuns is everything after. I know it's vague, but that's wher I draw the line.

Agree.

IMO real Gn'R died after ALL the original lineup members, bar Axl, left the band... What came after was/is Axl's band that he opted to maintain the original band name.

So GN'R died when Izzy left the band?

It certainly didn't help the 'cause'...but as I said before imo Gn'R died when ALL the original founding members (except for Axl) left the band.

Izzy was the last original member to leave the band, when he left, only Axl remained as an original band member. I think you are thinking about the "other original" lineup or what some refer to as the "first nuGuns" or, personally, "the AFD lineup"

oh please...

nobody cares about ole beich or tracii guns or rob gardner..

don't be a lolcano

Edited April 21, 2013 by Crash Diet

[SoulMonster]

"Old guns" and "new guns" is pretty imprecise. The band is Guns N' Roses, period. Then we can refer to specific lineups if need be.

really?

Even Axl demarcate the bands periods.

Truth is the truth hurts don't you agree?

There is nothing wrong with demarcating the band's periods. But by now the term "nuGuns" has become fuzzy and imprecise. It is much more sensible to refer to specific lineups than to use the muddled terms "oldGuns" and "nuGuns" which have no clear definitions and can mean many different things depending upon who is speaking and the overall context. I am ALL for clarity. If Axl disagrees with me on this then that won't sway my opinion one iota, only good arguments as to why it is sensible to use a fuzzy term can do that.

And btw, this is what Axl said on the topic: In regard to nuGuns, I get that sometimes it helps to be able to clarify. Personally I call this Guns and the Illusions or previous lineups old Guns.

Edited April 21, 2013 by SoulMonster

[Crash Diet]

To this day, you can go out and about, and ask any random person, word for word, "Who is the lead guitarist of Guns N' Roses?" and at least 95% of the responses will be "Slash". That says it all, really.

You've tested this, have you? How was that for you? Is your conclusion based only on those people that knew what Guns N' Roses was? Did you exclude the people that looked at you like the worlds biggest loser and walked away? How big was your testing area and how many total people were interviewed?

I'll try to recreate your results.

a quick google search answered it

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_the_lead_guitarist_for_guns_n_roses

Yes, i know the term" WAS" but still only his name popped up first

Edited April 21, 2013 by Crash Diet

[Vincent Vega]

1985-1996: Classic GN'R

1998-2006: CD Era GN'R/NuGNR/Bizarro GN'R

2009-present: NuNuGNR/Joke GN'R

Every member from June 6th 1985 to October 31st 1996 was a member of Guns N' Roses. After that point, and solidified by Duff's exit in 1997, GN'R ceased to exist except legally and NewGNR was born. Even in the UYI-TSI lineups, you still had Slash and Duff who had a say in things and weren't subordinate employees like Bumblefoot and DJ Ashba. You still had 3 out of 5 members of the original lineup present. Until 12-31-1995, GN'R was still a legal partnership in which Axl, Slash and Duff were equal partners who thus had equal control. Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

[SoulMonster]

Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

Except for the fact that they co-write and co-play the music. Which kinda tend to make them into "band members".

[Crash Diet]

Didn't take a census,

It's time that we did. Since it was your idea, you come up with the parameters. You, Downzy and I will get to the bottom of this once and for all. For the good of MyGNR forumites everywhere!

u mad aren't u?

[Vincent Vega]

Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

Except for the fact that they co-write and co-play the music. Which kinda tend to make them into "band members".

What has Bumblefoot or DJ Ashba co-written and what have they co-played other than covers of other people's songs and overdubs on songs other people wrote?

[SoulMonster]

Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

Except for the fact that they co-write and co-play the music. Which kinda tend to make them into "band members".

What has Bumblefoot or DJ Ashba co-written and what have they co-played other than covers of other people's songs and overdubs on songs other people wrote?

You can't expect members who came in after a release to be part of that release . We have to give some leniency to members who arrive in-between records.

[izzydoezit]

Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

Except for the fact that they co-write and co-play the music. Which kinda tend to make them into "band members".

You have a weird perception of what a band is... The current situation is the boss and employees. It's a solo act. It is not really a rock band. Unless you want to get really technical about it. Yes they are 8 playing together for some nights, and legally they carry the name Guns N' Roses. Everybody except Axl can be legally replaced and it would still be GNR. But c'mon in essence this is no rock n roll band no matter how much you'd want it it to be.

[Vincent Vega]

Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

Except for the fact that they co-write and co-play the music. Which kinda tend to make them into "band members".

You have a weird perception of what a band is... The current situation is the boss and employees. It's a solo act. It is not really a rock band. Unless you want to get really technical about it. Yes they are 8 playing together for some nights, and legally they carry the name Guns N' Roses. Everybody except Axl can be legally replaced and it would still be GNR. But c'mon in essence this is no rock n roll band no matter how much you'd want it it to be.

+1

It's not a partnership or a band. It's Axl's gig and whatever he says goes. That's not a band at all, as you said, it's a solo act. Even hirelings in a solo band write material. Does that make them members? No, just hirelings.

In real GN'R, Axl, Slash and Duff were equal partners who had all had authority over what GN'R did and didn't do.

[SoulMonster]

Today's band is Axl owning GN'R employing guys who have no say over anything, have no voice, and just do as they're told.

Except for the fact that they co-write and co-play the music. Which kinda tend to make them into "band members".

You have a weird perception of what a band is...

I do? A band is per definition a "group of musicians who play music together". I sort of tend to stick do definitions.

[izzydoezit]

Yes, that was my point. That you stick to definitions and miss the point.

[SoulMonster]

Yes, that was my point. That you stick to definitions and miss the point.

There are two points here:

A) Tracii, Rob and Ole contributed exceedingly little to the legacy of GN'R and are for the most part completely irrelevant and unknown.

B) This somehow disqualifies them from being part of the original/first lineup.

I absolutely agree with point A). In fact, I find this so trivial there is nothing to discuss at all. I absolutely disagree with point B).

Edited April 21, 2013 by SoulMonster

[Damn_Smooth]

Didn't take a census,

It's time that we did. Since it was your idea, you come up with the parameters. You, Downzy and I will get to the bottom of this once and for all. For the good of MyGNR forumites everywhere!

u mad aren't u?

English definitely isn't your first language, is it?

[moreblack]

The term applies to the post 97ish era when the last old members left, it turned into a revolving door cast of unknowns. People started using it because it created a distinction between the GNR they knew and followed, and Axl's band of touring hired hands who may or may not be there next tour.

[trqster]

Yes, that was my point. That you stick to definitions and miss the point.

[DieselDaisy]

Beginning with Reed/Sorum in 1990 every new band member has been contracted. Finck for example was put on a two year contract.

[Vincent Vega]

Also, another reason why new GN'R is called NuGNR is because it is truly a "new" Guns N' Roses.

In 1992, Axl, Slash and Duff renegotiated their contract with Geffen and created a legal partnership defining who owned Guns N' Roses. That contract stipulated Axl, Slash and Duff as joint, equal legal members of GN'R. Axl put in a proviso which stipulated that if Axl was fired from the band or quit the band and legal partnership, the name and rights to the name would go with him and become his.

Axl sent a letter to Slash and Duff on August 31st 1995 informing them of his intent to leave and dissolve the existing Guns N' Roses partnership on December 31st 1995. In his August 1995 letter to Slash and Duff, he announced his intention to form a new band/legal partnership which would also be called Guns N' Roses, which they could join as employees under contract. This all went into effect 12-31-1995.

As such, even from a legal standpoint, there were/are two Guns N' Roses: The legal entity created by Axl, Slash and Duff as equal partners when they renegotiated with Geffen in 1992 and the legal entity created comprised solely of Axl which was created in 1995 which exists to the present day.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[izzydoezit]

Axl's move was truly fucked up...