Guest NGOG Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It sounds like a mixture of two different albums. Almost as if Axl was forced to give up on his trilogy ambition and rotate the tracklists in order to release Chinese Democracy but also incorporate a flavor of the next record in case circumstances would change -- both in terms of the personnel involved and attitudes of the industry.Chinese Democracy Oh My GodChinese Democracy IRSRiadSilkwormsThe BluesTWATCatcherMadagascar This I LoveAtlasThen I would say the following were recorded as part of the decade spanning recording sessions but not necessarily destined for the first album but later incorporated as a result of leaks and other factors including more recent additions to the line-up and industry opinion:Sorry If The WorldShackler'sBetterProstitute Scraped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) I get this feeling too but Ive been told its not. Still I feel like Shacklers, ITW, Scraped, Sorry were sent back from CD II. CD was written before Bucket joined? So anything Bucket wrote isnt really CD. See above songswhich all come from a Cazam session with Bucket? Edited June 1, 2013 by wasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I think Prostitute was written pretty early on (Freese gets credit for drum arrangement on it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Shackler's Revenge, Sorry, ITW and Scraped were all, circa. 2000-2004. The rest were, circa 1997-99 - with This I Love dating back to circa 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay410 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I think Chinese Democracy was tracklisted with the honest intentions of there being another album released shortly thereafter which is why so many "big guns" may be missing. It sounds like an album that has a partner to compliment it but the second (and possible third) never came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManetsBR Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Axl stated that he had the plan to release it differently. When he saw he wouldn't have much vocie on how things were getting done, I think he just picked the songs that had already leaked before and told Azoff that UMG could release'em if they wanted. That's not Axl's Chinese Democracy, but UMG/Azoff's Chinese Democracy.Not even Axl's plans for the booklets were respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Maybe CD II was rejected in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Shackler's Revenge, Sorry, ITW and Scraped were all, circa. 2000-2004. The rest were, circa 1997-99 - with This I Love dating back to circa 1993.I remember reading speculation Better was after Finck came back which would put it in 2000-2004 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Shackler's Revenge, Sorry, ITW and Scraped were all, circa. 2000-2004. The rest were, circa 1997-99 - with This I Love dating back to circa 1993.I remember reading speculation Better was after Finck came back which would put it in 2000-2004 as well.Yes, seems plausible. We do not have a 1999 era demo for Better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 None of these songs would have been written before 2004, since Bucket's on all of them and he seemed to have been out by that year at least, if not 2003 (his involvement in GNR in 2003 seems debatable).I think Axl was ready to mix in 2002 but had the wind taken out of him when Ezrin told him he only had 2 or 3 songs that were ready/not overproduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Bucket left in 2002 or 2004? CD songs were written before he joined? or was that 2000 Intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 None of these songs would have been written before 2004, since Bucket's on all of them and he seemed to have been out by that year at leastlolwut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) None of these songs would have been written before 2004, since Bucket's on all of them and he seemed to have been out by that year at leastlolwutOops, meant "after 2004" In the statement from Axl in 2004, he says he's not even sure when Bucket decided to quit. What I'm saying is that none of the songs on CD were initially composed before Bucket quit, since Bucket's on all of them (though obviously from 2003-2008 Axl added and edited stuff, and later overdubs from Bumble and Frank, etc.).Had a look through the CD alternate album artwork, noticed Axl and Robin have credits on a song called "Stardust" (see left page):I'm pretty sure Stardust is just (yet another) working title for The Blues/Street of Dreams, and it got changed to SOD just before the album was released. Also interesting to note that Bucket isn't on TIL at all:Seems to back up what Axl said about him being hesitant to actually record it as a proper song and put it on the album until Robin convinced him (after Beavan and Bucket left but before Brain left, it seems). Edited June 2, 2013 by Amir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 What I'm saying is that none of the songs on CD were initially composed before Bucket quit, since Bucket's on all of them (though obviously from 2003-2008 Axl added and edited stuff, and later overdubs from Bumble and Frank, etc.).The vast majority of the songs were written prior to Buckethead joining the project. All he technically did, while at the same time enhancing the record, was add guitar parts as the finesse of different songs. He didn't play any real integral role in the formation of the majority of the songs. His role seemed to be more satisfying Axl's sense of perfection that the songs were actually complete.MSL claims to be in a position to confirm that Stardust was indeed Street of Dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Shacklers, scraped, Sorry are Bucket songs though? ITW is Pitman/Rose with a Bucket solo? one of the rumors surrounding Bucket quitting was he wanted the record to be all his songs. So maybe they are in the vault. Or in his basement with his nun chucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The vast majority of the songs were written prior to Buckethead joining the project. All he technically did, while at the same time enhancing the record, was add guitar parts as the finesse of different songs. He didn't play any real integral role in the formation of the majority of the songs. His role seemed to be more satisfying Axl's sense of perfection that the songs were actually complete. Shacklers, scraped, Sorry are Bucket songs though?Yup, not disputing that most songs that ended up on CD were written prior to him joining, with him mostly adding solos. Notable exceptions are Shackler's, Scraped, and Sorry. I guess maybe he did want more of his songs on the record? Maybe more of his stuff was planned for CDII? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Shacklers, scraped, Sorry are Bucket songs though? Did I not clearly say majority? Buckethead has writing credits on a couple of songs off Chinese Democracy but for the most part his role was to perfect certain songs (he plays upto 11 solos). It's a bit of an injustice that one of the few songs he actually did write, Shackler's, ultimately had Bumblefoot on the main solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Maybe more of his stuff was planned for CDII? Who knows.That's what I'm getting at. Chinese Democracy is largely an album written by Axl, Tobias, Dizzy and Tommy (with additional parts from Robin, Buckethead and Chris and the occassional song). Buckethead in particular came in during an active and nearly finished project -- Axl was never going to just scrap everything in order to get working with Buckethead (although he may have deep down wanted to). An entirely new record concept seems to have started around 2002 and that is probably where Buckethead really comes into his own. It would seem with Chinese Democracy that when Buckethead left Axl then wanted to incorporate some of Buckethead's songs into the first record in order to minimize his role on subsequent albums or even just create a greater array of material in the wake of the leakings. Edited June 2, 2013 by NGOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useyorappetite Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I know alot of people don't like it but i really like bumbles solo on shacklers.Sorry is awesome. it really deserved better lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Shacklers, scraped, Sorry are Bucket songs though? Did I not clearly say majority? Buckethead has writing credits on a couple of songs off Chinese Democracy but for the most part his role was to perfect certain songs (he plays upto 11 solos). It's a bit of an injustice that one of the few songs he actually did write, Shackler's, ultimately had Bumblefoot on the main solo.but in a way does Bucket have more of his songs than any one else other than Rose. Finck just has Better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I agree with the Bucket came in after CD. But on the actual record he had 3 of his songs which in someways dont actually fit on it other than Axls lyric themes. So I expect we'll get 3 or 4 CD songs plus maybe some more of these Bucket songs, Fortus songs, maybe something new from Dj and maybe a song from the whole current line up. Bad Apples 2 - Haunted Orchard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Shacklers, scraped, Sorry are Bucket songs though?Did I not clearly say majority? Buckethead has writing credits on a couple of songs off Chinese Democracy but for the most part his role was to perfect certain songs (he plays upto 11 solos). It's a bit of an injustice that one of the few songs he actually did write, Shackler's, ultimately had Bumblefoot on the main solo.but in a way does Bucket have more of his songs than any one else other than Rose. Finck just has Better.As expected it was a very Nine Inch Nails record in that the overwhelming credit for Chinese Democracy goes to Rose. I would go as far as to say Axl maybe exaggerated the contributions of the musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.wa.T Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) I've read rumors that the new album might feature alot of guitar work done by Fortus. Being that he's the longest tenured guitarist now.If Bucket and Robin have multiple contributions on a new record I can see that stirring up the shit pot. As much as I want to hear the General, Atlas Shrugged etc.. it's a tricky situation as in those songs are most likely credited to Bucket and/or Robin, who are no longer in the band. Its one of the reasons, if not THE reason, that Ron seems agitated when talk of new music comes up. Id be pissed to if someone elses songs were on my bands record and their no longer in said band.Anyways I hope the rumors about Richards work are true, he deserves it and is an awesome writer and player.The structure to most of the songs that were meant for 2000 Intentions probably remained. So if you look at that as one era and then the time between 2002~2008 as another, then its possible that Chinese Democracy is a combination of two albums.Do we no when songs like Atlas and the General etc were written? You might be able to add a few more songs to the second list, making your theory more plausible.Or, do we know of a tracklist of supposed songs meant for 2000 Intentions? That would be most useful. Edited June 2, 2013 by T.wa.T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 but in a way does Bucket have more of his songs than any one else other than Rose. Finck just has Better.As expected it was a very Nine Inch Nails record in that the overwhelming credit for Chinese Democracy goes to Rose. I would go as far as to say Axl maybe exaggerated the contributions of the musicians. Don't get fooled by that ridiculous original album booklet. Robin Finck has credits on 8 songs, I guess. The right credits on ASCAP tells the truth about the songwriting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I would disagree with it sounding like NIN, unless its used as a general term to mean kind of 90s. Cazam was involved with RATM, Wallace was Nirvana and Faith no More. To me Axl controlled the whole record. What i was saying is Bucket has 3 songs and Finck has 1. maybe it highlights how Bucket came and finished off CD. Scraped and and Sorry were the last two songs they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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