In Support of the Setlist

[kyrie]

So... I couldn't think of a better title for this thread.

However, in every single show thread, there's a ton of bitching about the lack of changes to the setlist, and how the band just alternates a few songs in and out each night. And as a fan I love seeing long, varied shows, but I got to experience the other side of that last night and figured I'd throw this out there:

I'm a casual Primus fan. I own Pork Soda and Tales from the Punchbowl, and I love My Name is Mud and Mr. Krinkle and Winnona's Big Brown Beaver, basically the hits, and a few other songs. John the Fisherman, Jerry was a Race Car Driver, Southbound Pachyderm.

Last night I caught Primus at the second show of a two-night stand in Toronto. I had my list of songs I wanted to hear. I wasn't sure if they'd play Winnona's Big Brown Beaver since it became "that song" for them, but anyway, I figured if I heard 3 or 4 of my favourite songs and a couple other songs I knew (I checked out Lee Van Cleef and Tragedy's A Comin' off the latest album), I'd enjoy it.

Now, it was a great show, Les Claypool is a wizard with a bass, the 3D light show was cool, but frankly - they played two completely different setlists Friday and Saturday. No repeats. And guess what - every single song I wanted to hear was either played Friday, or not played at all, save for Jerry was a Race Car Driver. They did play a couple songs off Pork Soda (Bob, Hamburger Train, one other) and one song (Del Davis Tree Farm) off Tales from the Punchbowl that I like, but that was it. I spent a lot of time going "I have no idea what this song is" and the whole time (since I didn't see Friday's setlist til after the fact) I'm hoping for one of the "hits" thinking they'd at least spread them out between shows (I know Primus likes to mix it up a lot, just didn't realize I'd be that unlucky in the setlist).

That's it. Food for thought. Guns have a lot of casual fans to win over and please. Playing 3 CD songs at a festival gig seems like a pretty acceptable number given the shortened set time and the fact that, if you start sacrificing hits, people feel a bit let down.

All that said I enjoyed Primus live - loved the musicianship, though one less Popeye video during the intermission would have been fine with me - but I still wish I had grabbed tickets for the Friday show. And I'm suddenly quite appreciative of that fact that I've seen Guns live 7 times, and each time out got a new song I hadn't heard live before, but still didn't feel like I missed anything.

Edited June 9, 2013 by kyrie

[GnR Chris]

I had similar sentiments when I saw Gn'R (both times). I like to see varied setlists but when I'm actually there, goddamn it, I want to hear all the hits. I'm sorry if that makes me less of a fan. Then again, now having seen them twice, I'd love for Axl to pull out some songs they haven't played in years.

The "curse" is there are so many classics even for a three hour show. People come out to see them by and large.

[shotgunblues1978]

There's certainly a happy medium that can be reached. GnR has some songs that are probably "must plays" for the casual fans at the shows: Jungle, SCOM, Paradise, November Rain, YCMB, LALD, KOHD. Most people want to see these songs, even if they've seen them performed live many times before.

I think that some of the complaints are valid, in that they have songs they could pull out or replace. For example, would anyone complain if they replaced It's So Easy with My Michelle and Rocket Queen with Think About You? Or if they replaced Mr. Brownstone with Yesterdays? Replaced Madagascar and Street of Dreams with Catcher and IRS? Doubtful. There are at least 6 or 7 songs they could shuffle on a nightly basis while keeping the staples in place.

Lets be honest though, the vast majority of the complaints come from people online who aren't even at multiple shows. For example if they play Dallas one night and Houston the next, the vast majority of the Houston crowd doesn't know (or care) what the setlist was the night before; all they care about is their specific show.

[GnR Chris]

I would hate to miss out on "Rocket Queen," but I agree with you, shotgunblues. I hated missing out on "My Michelle" as well, which wasn't played much this leg. But it'd be nice if they had the handful of staples then a constant rotation of stuff that varies night to night.

[Val22]

Love this year's set list and it was great to hear "I used to love her" live. It was one of the best performances that night and Axl doing different hand gestures to different ways to kill someone was so damn funny! A good time was had by all!

[WhazUp]

On the other hand I have seen GNR once in 2011 and once UCAP show in 2012 and to be honest that is enough for me for now until there is either some major changes or new material to support. Don't get me wrong I loved both shows but in terms of live concerts as someone who isn't crazy rich I personally would save my wallet and hardcore concert following to bands such as Rush and Pearl Jam who either undergo major set changes each tour or change up their set nearly every show anyway.

[axlslash]

This is exactly right. I'm a huge die-hard love-every-record Springsteen fan, while my fiancee really enjoys Born In The USA and a handful of other hits. We saw him together in Philly in 2009, and had totally different experiences. He did Ties That Bind, Kitty's Back, Thundercrack, and a handful of other deep cuts. He replaced hits with lesser-known cuts up and down the setlist. I fuckin' loved it, she was lukewarm. Springsteen does a good job of varying his sets while keeping the big guns (Born to Run, Dancing in the Dark, etc.) pretty consistent. I'd like to see Axl make more songs in the set rotations, but you gotta play to the casual fans too.

[wasted]

I saw them in 91, 01, 09 each time the set was significantly different. So its hard to complain.

Maybe they should do a wild card song every show. Whether its Bad obsession, Riad, Move to the City, Shotgun blues.

[highvoltage]

There's certainly a happy medium that can be reached.

I agree. A festival, sure, I get the sets they play.

But GN'R play a long enough show to change up 4 or 5 songs every show and play a deep cut from the Illusions every now and then IMO. Nobody's suggesting they turn into Pearl Jam or Primus where they play a completely different set each show.

[Damn_Smooth]

There's certainly a happy medium that can be reached.

I agree. A festival, sure, I get the sets they play.

But GN'R play a long enough show to change up 4 or 5 songs every show and play a deep cut from the Illusions every now and then IMO. Nobody's suggesting they turn into Pearl Jam or Primus where they play a completely different set each show.

I'm suggesting that. I wasn't before, but now that you brought it up I'm fully behind it.

[highvoltage]

There's certainly a happy medium that can be reached.

I agree. A festival, sure, I get the sets they play.

But GN'R play a long enough show to change up 4 or 5 songs every show and play a deep cut from the Illusions every now and then IMO. Nobody's suggesting they turn into Pearl Jam or Primus where they play a completely different set each show.

I'm suggesting that. I wasn't before, but now that you brought it up I'm fully behind it.

I should have said "I'm not". Oh well.

[Powerage5]

There's certainly a happy medium that can be reached.

I agree. A festival, sure, I get the sets they play.

But GN'R play a long enough show to change up 4 or 5 songs every show and play a deep cut from the Illusions every now and then IMO. Nobody's suggesting they turn into Pearl Jam or Primus where they play a completely different set each show.

This is pretty much how I feel too. I was mostly okay with the setlist yesterday given it was a festival where they wouldn't have much of a fanbase. But the big head scratcher to me was no Civil War, would've gone over great yesterday. And The Seeker was pointless when there's an abridged setlist.

But switching up a few songs every night would make so many more people happy. Thinking back to 2011 when they had a list of songs they could play instead of an actual setlist - even if all of those were actually in rotation the shows would be so much more exciting.

[wasted]

But people dont go to every show. Maybe some went to bowl and governors? so you got more at Bowl. Its a luxury to go to two shows in a week.

[jellyzero]

My biggest complaint is the abundance of cover songs and jams. Why can't there be a 10 minute jam that showcases everyone in the band (Like "Move To The City" for example) and replace all the covers with GNR tunes written by GNR? KOHD was a bore in '92 and it is worse now since Axl introduced the low energy - 'sing along if you feel like' it version back in '01 and LALD's only purpose is to show off the pyro just like at a McCartney show.

[PITBOSS]

one of the problems is, there are too many hits. and too many great lesser know songs.

here's one idea, charge more and do a 4 hour set!

another idea is have about 6 songs that get alternated in the setlist plus stick with your usual staples.

another idea, use the facebook page to take requests on a few of the songs.

last idea, come out with a new album and play songs from that one plus the staples.

[Coma16]

My biggest complaint is the abundance of cover songs and jams. Why can't there be a 10 minute jam that showcases everyone in the band (Like "Move To The City" for example) and replace all the covers with GNR tunes written by GNR? KOHD was a bore in '92 and it is worse now since Axl introduced the low energy - 'sing along if you feel like' it version back in '01 and LALD's only purpose is to show off the pyro just like at a McCartney show.

While I understand what you're saying, KOHD and LALD are 2 of the most praised songs in non-forum reviews. The crowd loves those 2 songs. I would say LALD is better for the set as it is short and rockin' - amazing live but not great in the videos.

[Cosmo]

The problem is they don't rotate songs. Keep the essentials intact, whatever, just rotate the rest. As much as I love Chinese Democracy, the only song that should be a staple is Better. Make 3 or 4 more slots for CD songs and rotate them.

• Catcher/SoD,
• CD/IRS/Scraped,
• Maddy/TIL, etc...

Make 3 tour set lists before starting a tour... y'know.. "Today we're playing setlist A, which starts with CD and has got My Michelle instead of Mr.Brownstone, tomorrow it might be setlist B, which starts with WTTJ, and has IRS or Scraped instead of CD". It's not that hard. Mix it up, for Christ's sake. Put some themes into the tours, goddamn it... Since the end of the CD tour it's been "2011 tour", "2012 tour". The closest we got to "this is a special tour" was the UCAP tour. Since they're basically an all-out nostalgia act, make a UYI themed tour, maybe. I don't know. It's time we got something new. Enough with the casuals. It's the hardcore fanbase that buys merch, defends GnR, buys albums instead of downloading them, votes for GnR in polls and contests and joins that freakin' useless Nightrain fan club membership.

[maynard]

The problem is they don't rotate songs. Keep the essentials intact, whatever, just rotate the rest. As much as I love Chinese Democracy, the only song that should be a staple is Better. Make 3 or 4 more slots for CD songs and rotate them.

• Catcher/SoD,
• CD/IRS/Scraped,
• Maddy/TIL, etc...

Make 3 tour set lists before starting a tour... y'know.. "Today we're playing setlist A, which starts with CD and has got My Michelle instead of Mr.Brownstone, tomorrow it might be setlist B, which starts with WTTJ, and has IRS or Scraped instead of CD". It's not that hard. Mix it up, for Christ's sake. Put some themes into the tours, goddamn it... Since the end of the CD tour it's been "2011 tour", "2012 tour". The closest we got to "this is a special tour" was the UCAP tour. Since they're basically an all-out nostalgia act, make a UYI themed tour, maybe. I don't know. It's time we got something new. Enough with the casuals. It's the hardcore fanbase that buys merch, defends GnR, buys albums instead of downloading them, votes for GnR in polls and contests and joins that freakin' useless Nightrain fan club membership.

great post, that would be a very easy and effective change for the band. if anyone disagrees with this post and prefers the current situation is a complete idiot.

Edited June 10, 2013 by maynard

[smokingarthur]

Maybe the "problem" is that there hasn't been any great shows from this band and Axl as a singer. There have been some very decent shows but nothing great. Every show I have been to has the same problem with the vocals being drowned out. There's too much noise, the songs in many cases loosely resemble their former selves. I can still recall seeing Dave Mathews and John Popper performing in Memphis years ago, and still remember how incredible they sounded, and I don't like either. I've seen Metallica many times, they always sound like Metallica. Even STP shows sounded fucking bitchin'. I am forcing myself to like this band because Axl is the lead singer, its called Guns N Roses, Ive been following this Chi Dem thing half my life, etc.

I don't care what they do to the setlist anymore, what's the point?

[wasted]

But it doesn't solve the problem because what if they played My Michelle last time. They change the set list up by tour because they don't want to repeat the last tour. Even on the last run they brought in Catcher, Seeker, Don't Let it Bring you Down, TWAT. They were playing Sorry.

So what's actually the point of changing the setlist from Detroit on Thursday and Chicago on Satuday night. Will the same people be there? What matters is that the last time they came through both towns on the last tour is different to this time.

Given that they have 9/10 hits they have to play plus classic people want to hear like ISE, Brownstone, Nightrain, RQ, Civil War, Estranged. they got 7 to play with? 4 CD songs - CD, Better, SOD, TIL.

1. Jungle

2. SCOM

3. PC

4. Patience

5. YCBM

6. DC

7. NR

8. Heaven's door

9. Live n Die

I would say they sort of have to play

10. ISE

11. Brownstone

12. Nightrain

they kind of do play

13. RQ

14. Estranged

15. Civil War

CD songs, which they kind of have to play

16. CD

17. Better

18. SOD

19. TIL

So that leaves 3 slots

20. Used to Love Her/ 14 Years/Yesterdays/Michelle/OTGM

21. Madagascar/Catcher/TWAT/Sorry

22. Seeker/Whole Lotta Rosie/Don't Let it Bring You Down/Motivation/Objectify/Dead Flowers

So I think it's in these 3 slots where they could throw

Don't Damn Me

Bad Obsession

Perfect Crime

DTJ

Down on the Farm

or the band could work up Coma and Locomotive.

I think it's 20. they haven't been rotating enough. 21. 22. - you get different covers and CD tracks. nobodies complain but in that old GNR track they need to bounce from Move to the City etc. see above.

They really just need to throw in a UYI wildcard song. so each set has something for the internet can go wild.

Edited June 10, 2013 by wasted

[SoulMonster]

Most people who go to GN'R shows wants to hear the hits, not deep cuts. Catering to most of you audience sounds sensible to me. This doesn't mean they couldn't change things up a bit more, cut some covers and solos, etc, but all in all the setlists are great.

[DieselDaisy]

Soul, most of the people who go to see Dylan want to see the hits also. But Dylan rarely delivers, merely a set consisting of Rolling Stone, Blowin in the Wind, Times, Watchtower etc. Dylan usually delivers an ecletic set filled with new album tracks and deep cuts. Why? Dylan is an artist.

[SoulMonster]

Soul, most of the people who go to see Dylan want to see the hits also. But Dylan rarely delivers, merely a set consisting of Rolling Stone, Blowin in the Wind, Times, Watchtower etc. Dylan usually delivers an ecletic set filled with new album tracks and deep cuts. Why? Dylan is an artist.

What an asshole, denying most of the people who go to see him the great show they come for.

[DieselDaisy]

Soul, most of the people who go to see Dylan want to see the hits also. But Dylan rarely delivers, merely a set consisting of Rolling Stone, Blowin in the Wind, Times, Watchtower etc. Dylan usually delivers an ecletic set filled with new album tracks and deep cuts. Why? Dylan is an artist.

What an asshole, denying most of the people who go to see him the great show they come for.

Haha, you are truly blind to how great artists work. I feel sorry for you that you seem to admire cheesy dick acts. Pink Floyd played their whole new album live before it was released, so the crowd would be hearing 60 mins of music they had not heard and then maybe 2-3 old songs as an encore. Guess what album that was? Dark Side of the Moon. Neil Young did a similar thing with Greendale.

[SoulMonster]

Haha, you are truly blind to how great artists work. I feel sorry for you that you seem to admire cheesy dick acts. Pink Floyd played their whole new album live before it was released, so the crowd would be hearing 60 mins of music they had not heard and then maybe 2-3 old songs as an encore. Guess what album that was? Dark Side of the Moon. Neil Young did a similar thing with Greendale.

Assholes the lot of them. More concerned about their own selfish artistic needs than entertaining the audiences that pay to see them. If they want to be eclectic they can do that when creating their music.