What makes Bumblefoot and Buckethead virtuosos over the likes of Richard Fortus or Slash??

[Towelie]

This is a topic that intrigues me to some degree... I hear the word "virtuoso" bandied around a lot referring to Bucket and Ron Thal, but nobody says the same about Slash or Richard Fortus - both world class guitarists in my eyes.

So what is it that makes Bucket and Ron virtuosos but Slash and Richard not? Is it the speed? The crazy tapping?

Here is the Google definition of "virtuoso" to ponder when discussing this...

vir·tu·o·so

Noun

1. A person highly skilled in music or another artistic pursuit.
2. A person with a special knowledge of or interest in works of art or curios.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Towelie

[kanudo19]

because both slash and fortus although highly talented can only dream of having the skill and music knowledge of Ron or buckethead. I think it's del who called ron a human jukebox ffs

[SoulMonster]

I sort of think of it as being able to play everything skilfully. Basically, mastering the instrument. If that is correct then Bumbles and Bucket is in a league of their own.

[Crash Diet]

I sort of think of it as being able to play everything skilfully. Basically, mastering the instrument. If that is correct then Bumbles and Bucket is in a league of their own.

I think buckethead are 10 times better than Ron

I know many bbf fans disagree with me, but Ron's playing sometimes missing the lack of soul. Not to mention that most of buckethead's solo work is amazing, while bbf's solo material not so much.

btw even Ron said that the biggest guitar geek in the band is 4tus

Edited June 14, 2013 by Crash Diet

[Towelie]

Ron's music outside Guns >>>>>>>> BH's solo music

BH has no quality control, shitting out several albums a year, a lot of guitar wankery and pretentious shit under the guise of "avant garde". BBF actually writes proper songs! Add to that, he is a gifted vocalist with a great ear for melodic rock!

[liers]

Buckethead is, in my opinion, the best guitarist period. He can play all kinds of music with all different sounds. All of gnrs guitarists are good, but bucket has the best stage presence too.

Edited June 14, 2013 by liers

[Nosaj Thing]

Get ready to get your thread moved to the deadest section of this forum in 3, 2, 1...

On topic: I'm not sure and I don't really care. Buckethead is better than Bumblefoot though so I'll go with him in this poll.

[Towelie]

Does anybody consider Slash to be a virtuoso?

[Rustycage]

I think the lesson guitarists should know is that teaching yourself can make you a lot more respected and original than those taking lessons and playing technically perfect.

Slash

Eric Clapton
Eddie Van Halen
BB King
Jimmy Page - mostly
Jimi Hendrix

Stevie Ray Vaughan

Dave Mustaine

Angus Young - mostly

David Gilmour I believe

A minority that masturbate to guitar really give a shit about technical abilities. Be your own guitar player and you'll have your signature. Want to impress the guitar geeks on the streets for a few handshakes and googly eyes? Take shredding lessons.

[magisme]

I would listen to every single Buckethead album, pike and guest spot before I put on one of Ron's solo songs. Just my opinion.

[SoulMonster]

I think the lesson guitarists should know is that teaching yourself can make you a lot more respected and original than those taking lessons and playing technically perfect.

Slash

Eric Clapton

Eddie Van Halen

BB King

Jimmy Page - mostly

Jimi Hendrix

Stevie Ray Vaughan

Dave Mustaine

Angus Young - mostly

David Gilmour I believe

A minority that masturbate to guitar really give a shit about technical abilities. Be your own guitar player and you'll have your signature. Want to impress the guitar geeks on the streets for a few handshakes and googly eyes? Take shredding lessons.

I would also add John Frusciante to that list.

[Nosaj Thing]

I would listen to every single Buckethead album, pike and guest spot before I put on one of Ron's solo songs. Just my opinion.

[Rustycage]

Yeah, I'm not saying it's a complete list. It can go on. And I'm sure there's a decent list of those that took lessons for a good part of their time learning.

Technical smechnical

[SoulMonster]

Just listening to Frusciante's solo in 'So Much I', not a great song at all but his simply solo which starts at 3:03 is just fantastic.

I also forgot about Finck. For me the best part of There Was A Time is his guitar melody and bends around 3:45, not Bucket's outtro (even though that is brilliant, too). It is so simple but oh so effective.

[SoNobodyToldYaBaby]

wait who said ron is a virtuoso? i thought the only true guitar virtuosos are bucket, vai and satriani? players like slash aren't considered vitruosos because he doesn't have a deep understanding of music theory and i think he even admitted himself that he only knows one scale (pentonic or something).

[TombRaider]

Does anybody consider Slash to be a virtuoso?

Slash a virtuoso? Maybe not. But Slash will be the first one to tell you that he is very limited in the technical department. I don't remember his exact words, but in his autobiography he says something along those lines.

Now, just like I said in the Technical Skills thread, or whatever it was called, I will take a soulful player over technical wankery any day of the week.

I don't really care if Slash can't hold a candle to BH or BBF in the technical department, the guy wrote some of GnR best solos ever. He will go down in history, whether Slash haters like it or not, as a great musician and soloist.

Hate Slash all you want, and I don't mean you, I mean it in general terms, but the guy does know how to play stuff that fits songs and he's able to convey feelings through his playing. To me, that's all that matters.

[highvoltage]

wait who said ron is a virtuoso? i thought the only true guitar virtuosos are bucket, vai and satriani? players like slash aren't considered vitruosos because he doesn't have a deep understanding of music theory and i think he even admitted himself that he only knows one scale (pentonic or something).

Ron is considered a virtuoso in many circles, and was long before he joined GN'R.

Ron can take pretty much any piece of music, play it in any style you like and make it look completely effortless. The instrument is essentially an extension of his personality. Whether you enjoy his style or not, it's hard to deny his technical proficiency. Being a virtuoso doesn't necessarily equate to people enjoying your music.

I'd actually go so far as to say that calling Ron a "virtuoso" pigeonholes him into a group of guitarists that he doesn't necessarily fit in with. Ron is more than capable of playing that sort of music (and he used to), but he's additionally a very quirky musician and his sense of humour is expressed through his music; many of his songs are just so damn weird and complicated they make your jaw drop - then make you laugh at the same time. I can see why a lot of people don't enjoy it, but I find his music incredibly interesting to listen to, and I've grown to love it more and more as time goes by.

I'd even argue that he's better at some styles than BH. Bruno Poeys has made some pretty eloquent posts on the subject.

Why a virtuoso over the likes of Fortus and Slash? Have either of them ever written anything remotely like this?

Again, plenty of people here won't like it, but it's tough to argue that his style is highly unique and that there are very few players in the world at his level of technical proficiency. Slash is a great songwriter and has written some amazing pieces of music that his replacements probably won't equal - but none of it is particularly hard to play. He's just not a virtuoso.

[GeetarMikey]

Slash is one of my fav ever guitarists and technically a really good player actually as well as his awesome sense of melody, but I wouldn't call him a virtuoso. Don't think he would consider himself one either.

On the other hand, Ron and Bucket are just unreal technical players that do play with great feel, but wouldn't put them right up there with my fav's. It would be very tricky to replace Bumble if he ever left!

[llll]

None of them are virtuosos. That term is being plastered on every fart the last century orso. Paganini was the last true virtuoso mankind has known.

[Bruno P.]

Ron can take pretty much any piece of music, play it in any style you like and make it look completely effortless. The instrument is essentially an extension of his personality. Whether you enjoy his style or not, it's hard to deny his technical proficiency. Being a virtuoso doesn't necessarily equate to people enjoying your music.

He has perfect pitch and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility.

Paul Warren is the owner of the Raleigh Music Academy and a great guitarist as well - Greg Howe, John Petrucci and Andy Timmons are also members of that academy, which makes Paul's statement a bold statement.

That reminds me of Ron doing polka versions of the Chinese songs - he played This I Love and made it fit that style effortlessly, even played the Finck solo - that blowed away Ashba's attempt by a mile. I don't know if anyone here was around but that was truly awesome. He also played Slash's Fall to Pieces that day. Sadly nodoby recorded that he did a 7 hours livestream and played and sang thousands of songs that fans requested...

Again, plenty of people here won't like it, but it's tough to argue that his style is highly unique and that there are very few players in the world at his level of technical proficiency. Slash is a great songwriter and has written some amazing pieces of music that his replacements probably won't equal - but none of it is particularly hard to play. He's just not a virtuoso.

Exactly. Govan says that Ron's stuff is the hardest to transcribe because he doesn't know where he's coming from, lol. And that players like Vai and Petrucci are playing technical stuff, but they're playing mostly patterns at a fast tempo.

Bare in mind that he's heralded by most guitarists the most technical and versatile in the world, so that's a bold statement.

The ultra-technical type of playing, I try to stay away from – unless there’s a real spark there, unless there’s something beyond the technique. Like someone like Bumblefoot; yes, there’s a lot of technique there, but there’s this deeply disturbed mind, and I mean that in a beautiful way. I love Ron’s stuff, but the thing that turns me on about it isn’t the phenomenal technique, it’s the thinking behind it. Players like Mattias Eklundh, Shawn Lane and those guys – they were special. Most of the people with metronomes with nine octave sweep arpeggios don’t have that extra x-factor. You know who the special technical players are.

Someone mentioned that Del James called him a music jukebox. Kinda. That's what he said...

Bumblefoot is probably the most accessible member of GN'R. At times he's too nice and has to be reeled in from signing autographs in order to catch a bus or a flight. His six-string wizardry is of the highest level and the man literally knows every song ever recorded or if he doesn't only needs to hear something once. The walking iPod entertains his brethren by playing the most obscure AM radio hits of the 70's, cheese metal, or TV theme songs. The band often tries to stump him with a request and rarely can.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Bruno Poeys

[WhazUp]

The way I look at it is a guitar virtuoso is someone who's career is defined by their sheer technical ability first and foremost. That isn't to say that is all they are about but that is what they are most known for.

For example Guthrie Govan is overall looked at by his knowledge and technical abilities first whereas Jimmy Page and the like are known for having their own sound and style in relation to the musical entities they are a part of which is why Page is considered such a great guitarist.

Edited June 14, 2013 by WhazUp

[Bruno P.]

I respectfully disagree. Govan is known for his technical skills and knowledge because he's unreal, sure, but he's also got his own unique style and sound that inspired several guitarists, including Bumblefoot himself. He's my favorite guitarist alongside Ron and Lane not because of his skills, but because his playing is the most tasteful and his solo career is brilliant. Page and the likes are known for their sound, indeed. He's brilliant and his sound is more accessible and commercial, that's why he inspired a few generations of guitarists. But yes, I get what you're saying and I agree that they're very different, but both put a lot of passion on their playing.

Listen to this...

THAT's fucking awesome. Gives me goosebumps.

[Powerage5]

None of them are virtuosos. That term is being plastered on every fart the last century orso. Paganini was the last true virtuoso mankind has known.

Nice cloud statement. I'm a saxophonist so let me put that in another perspective for you; the saxophone hadn't even been invented yet when Paganini died - you're telling me that no saxophonist, alive or dead, can be considered a virtuoso?

[Guest NGOG]

Of the two suggested as possible candidates for the description of 'virtuoso', I would say Richard Fortus just falls short.

[WhazUp]

I respectfully disagree. Govan is known for his technical skills and knowledge because he's unreal, sure, but he's also got his own unique style and sound that inspired several guitarists, including Bumblefoot himself. He's my favorite guitarist alongside Ron and Lane not because of his skills, but because his playing is the most tasteful and his solo career is brilliant. Page and the likes are known for their sound, indeed. He's brilliant and his sound is more accessible and commercial, that's why he inspired a few generations of guitarists. But yes, I get what you're saying and I agree that they're very different, but both put a lot of passion on their playing.

Listen to this...

THAT's fucking awesome. Gives me goosebumps.

I totally agree man Guthrie is pretty damn great! I recently saw him with Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree and was blown away by how great he was on guitar

But I do think that Guthrie's prescence in the industry is more defined by his virtuostic nature moreso than let's say Page or even David Gilmour where it is a different kind of recognition.

Great video you posted too I enjoyed that

Edited June 14, 2013 by WhazUp