Do you think Axl ever stops to question the morality of keeping the band name??

[Towelie]

One thing I thought was quite telling was when Axl visited the board back in 2008, one of the first things he posted was an open question asking how we felt regarding his ownership of the band name. I can't be bothered to find the exact quote (but I'm sure others here will recall this).

I think this speaks volumes. Axl had just released Chinese, he had been touring under the name GNR for nearly a decade without the original band and yet he was still searching for validation/approval of his actions.

I know Axl-apologists argue "Slash, Duff and Izzy CHOSE to leave" and spout the "Axl's the last man standing" bullshit. That still doesn't make it right. Irrespective of how Axl actually obtained the legal right to the name, carrying on with a completely new line-up when every single original member has left is undisputedly immoral. It is the ultimate insult to the original band, the guys who helped build GNR from nothing to a world class rock band.

A band is not like a football team, where players leave and get replaced. Perhaps carrying on without Slash could've been doable had the core of GNR remained the same. If Izzy had returned to help with songwriting duties and we still had Duff on bass and Matt/Steven on drums... but to build an entirely new band from scratch sends out a very loud signal from Axl that each one of his original bandmates were easily replaceable and in his mind, GNR is all about Axl Rose.

The worst part of this sorry saga is that Axl is surrounded by yes-men and sycophants who have a vested interest in feeding Axl's animosity towards his original bandmates. Lets face it, Beta and Fernando Lebeis would not be managing an original line-up reunion - there's no way Slash would let that happen. If a reunion were to ever happen, Axl's adopted Brazillian family would most likely be out of a job, or at the very least, sidelined to a more menial position. I'm not patronising Axl, I'm sure he has a mind of his own, but everyones actions are influenced to some degree by the company they choose to keep and when those friends/family happen to be on the payroll, it puts you in a very awkward position.

So what do you think? Does Axl really believe what he's doing is right? Is he really that egocentric and out-of-touch that he would deny the moral culpability of his actions?

Edited July 7, 2013 by Towelie

[SoulMonster]

Heh, no. Nothing wrong with keeping on with the band when no one else wanted. It is laudable.

[machinegunner]

Yes no doubt he questioned it and was quite ok with keeping the name.

[magisme]

I hope he at least struggles over it, but I have no idea what goes through that crazy fucker's head anymore besides, "Where's Beta? Where's money? Where's alcohol? Where's food? Everyone's out to get me!"

[wasted]

That's one of main things that he got barbecued about. He stole or forced people to sign. If it did happen, then Slash and Duff could stop him.

I think in someways he was left holding the bag. Because an advance had been given, GNR owed the label a record.

There's a lot of stuff we've been through before. But what I noticed here and there is that they didn't think the name was that important back in the 90s. There wasn't this nostalgia tour band thing.

I think the way Slash left and went around mouthing off while touring snakepit really pissed Axl off. If they hadn't opposed him and misrepresented things maybe he wouldn't have done it.

Also the label fucked it up. They kind of seemed to support the record with RTB coming in. Maybe they were hoping that they could get Slash on board at some point.

So to us we're like why do it even if legally you can? But financially factors and the feud maybe contributed to it. Axl seemed ready to walk away at any point up to 2006.

More recently the way the HOF was handled again alienated Axl more and made a reunion less likely. It's too easy to slip into crucifying Axl and making all his fault. Adler or whoever never really steps up and admits their side of it. Duff has and I respect him. But media is on their side because a reunion suits them more than trying work out if nu guns or fakegnr live up the name.

Slash has never apologized for lying. And that may be all it takes is that.

[dalsh327]

I agree that hiring friends and family have their own set of issues, but I don't get a "morality" of a band name, it's more of an integrity issue.

When Axl went out with nuGuns for the first time, I guarantee he was scared shitless about how fans were going to take it.

[Ace Nova]

When Axl went out with nuGuns for the first time, I guarantee he was scared shitless about how fans were going to take it.

Apparently you don't know Axl. Do you really think a man who is known to be 3+ hours late for many (if not the majority) of his shows over his career, known to cancel shows - leading to riots - and only halfheartedly ever apologized for any of it - was ever scared of anything of the sort!? Really?

Edited July 7, 2013 by Kasanova King

[tomfriend]

He probably thinks even the whiniest little bitches aren't that butthurt that they haven't gotten over it at some point in the last 19 years. Sadly he's wrong.

He probably also thinks people aren't so monumentally encased in their own sphincters that they (people who have never written, played or performed with Guns N' Roses) have the gall to think they should have say over whether or not he's entitled to the name of a band that he's been in for the vast majority of his life. Wrong again.

[Ace Nova]

He probably thinks even the whiniest little bitches aren't that butthurt that they haven't gotten over it at some point in the last 19 years. Sadly he's wrong.

He probably also thinks people aren't so monumentally encased in their own sphincters that they (people who have never written, played or performed with Guns N' Roses) have the gall to think they should have say over whether or not he's entitled to the name of a band that he's been in for the vast majority of his life. Wrong again.

Axl, is that you?

[Crash Diet]

Legality means jackshit in this case
Yes, many bands have got several lineup changes, but in GNR's case: this is only Axl's solo band, not GNR
btw the other classic members are idiots to sign over the name to Axl...

Edited July 7, 2013 by Crash Diet

[tomfriend]

There are literally dozens of bands that keep going under the same name with one member of the original lineup. Some, such as The Temptations and I believe Thin Lizzy even keep going after that member dies. Guns N' Roses fans are the only ones I've ever seen whinge about it like a bunch of grannies at a strip joint.

'Damaging the legacy', is a crock of absolute shit too. GnR in the 80s/90s is thought of no differently now than it would be if Axl had dropped the name. Everyone with half a brain knows there are different members now, and anyone who doesn't is too dumb to give a fuck about any legacy. You name me one person who says 'I think Appetite For Destruction is shit now because Axl kept the name'. That would take one dumb MF.

Edited July 7, 2013 by tomfriend

[magisme]

No one thinks AFD is shit, but tons of people think Axl and his hired hands band is a joke to call itself GNR. The general population pretty much dismisses it out of hand.

[Crash Diet]

Does Axl really believe what he's doing is right?

Yes. I'm curious about how he felt the whole thing

[tomfriend]

No one thinks AFD is shit, but tons of people think Axl and his hired hands band is a joke to call itself GNR. The general population pretty much dismisses it out of hand.

Cool. Gives him something to prove when he finally decides to put something new out.

[magisme]

No one thinks AFD is shit, but tons of people think Axl and his hired hands band is a joke to call itself GNR. The general population pretty much dismisses it out of hand.

Cool. Gives him something to prove when he finally decides to put something new out.

[TombRaider]

Towelie, there should be a maybe option.

[dalsh327]

When Axl went out with nuGuns for the first time, I guarantee he was scared shitless about how fans were going to take it.

Apparently you don't know Axl. Do you really think a man who is known to be 3+ hours late for the many (if not the majority) of his shows over his career, known to cancel shows - leading to riots - and only halfheartedly ever apologized for any of it - was ever scared of anything of the sort!? Really?

After 7 years of not performing live? Without a doubt. The only thing he had working in his favor was a New Years crowd still in celebration mode, and the "circus" factor of not being seen in public. They could have just gone out for 15 minutes, stood there without playing a note and gotten a standing ovation, but they had a show to do, and had something to prove.

I think he's had some nights where he was afraid to go out on stage, esp. with death threats, and after what happened to Dimebag a few years later, but there's no doubt he also pulled some diva moves, but why would he scrap entire tours or pay the late fines?

I just think in the recent years of the band, Axl's run out of excuses to go on late, it inconveniences a lot of people paying the money GNR is demanding to go see them if they want to lower ticket prices and play weekends so 2-3AM is no big deal, that's fine. But to expect people to come out on a Tuesday night and do that to the audience? They'll just stay home or try to go to a gig in another city that happened to be on the weekend.

I remember a few years back Diana Ross wanted to do a Supremes tour, but she scrapped the tour because she didn't have original members with her. This is a group that had 20-something #1 songs, but it was expensive, past their prime, and people thought it was Diana making a greedy cash grab for herself.

[wasted]

A lot of people hated Axl for his UYI songs and behavior. Metal fans for his arrogance and grunge for his unPC rock star persona.

Axl was very isolated when he made these decisions. No band, the whole media he'd kind of pissed on. Axl Rose the name was smeared, GNR wasn't even a cool or valuable brand name. GNR was already a joke. Cock rock was out and even the metal fraternity shunned Axl. So he fell into this nu metal scene. Its of weird when Papa Roach say they are big Guns fans. It's insane when the guys he hired for the band were just like I'll try it but this is a joke.

What real options did Axl have? He had a contract with UMG, an advance and some dubious label support. The way Slash quit Axl would be a complete pussy to say I can't do it without Slash. He would be retiring from being himself. I'm Axl Rose, lead singer of my solo band. Doesn't quite have the gravitas he was accustomed to.

[Dariablue]

So because he wasn't accustomed to it, that made it okay? Because it would have been hard and his name in lights wouldn't have been as big that makes it okay?

Face it, this is largely a hell of Axl's own making.

[Ali]

Heh, no. Nothing wrong with keeping on with the band when no one else wanted. It is laudable.

Agreed. But, I also feel this was a business matter, not a moral one.

Ali

[Val22]

I think Axl is happy he kept the GNR name and legacy alive, but I'm sure one day he will retire and the name will retire with him.

[Apollo]

Axl took the easy way out by keeping the name.

Crazy to think he fought so hard to keep the name............just so he could play the old hits with a new band. You think that's what he had in mind back then? THe name Guns n Roses is so sacred and meaningful to him - just so he could put out one album every 20 years and tour the world playing the songs the OLD band created.

Tomfriend - why so angry and insultive of people who have a different opinion than you?

Val - you really think that the "legacy" that Axl is keeping alive is something to be happy about? One album in 20 years and his audience size for his nostalic tours are shrinking every year. Axl didn't build or increase or make the legacy of GnR stronger over the past 20 years. He has tarnished it. Why do you think he would be happy about that? Do you think that was his goal way back then? To have the GnR name become a shell of what it once was?

[Nosaj Thing]

No. Slash and Duff were dumb enough to sign the name over. It's not Axl's fault. However, the question should be: Did Axl really do something with the name? The answer is: Fuckin' no. He had the chance and blew it.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Nosaj Thing

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

He has every legal and moral rite to keep the name. Others didnt deserve this, 1 against 4 + World, and 1 won.

[wasted]

So because he wasn't accustomed to it, that made it okay? Because it would have been hard and his name in lights wouldn't have been as big that makes it okay?

Face it, this is largely a hell of Axl's own making.

I think because he worked for a certain position, he may have felt hell be damn to give up bcos others did. He probably never got a straight answer to why.

I find it hard to discern whether its Axls fault or whether he cares. From his pov he seems to be saying it wasnt. Both slash side axl side make sense.

But Slash made his decision and has learned to live with it and has wished Axl luck. So as complicated as it is, especially as to what constitutes a true line up with various bands rolling with alt line ups from AcDc to AIC, its hard to say where you draw the line. You will have purists like its no GNR unless og 5. or UYI line up to Nu GNR fans, even fans of fake GNR.

So why anyone thinks they have some right tell some other what to like seems odd. Everyone gets it that the classic line up are the most important to the success of GNR.