Is Axl Trying Too Hard to Make this GNR

[jimb0]

I was watching Kevin Smith from Comic Con. And some one asked him if his new found love of weed had effected the writing of Clerks 3. Kevin said that it helped because instead of over thinking things in the writing process such as... whether it was Clerks Enough to belong in the script he just put it in. When he gave his wife the draft to read she pointed out that some parts had the heart of Clerks and other parts were him trying to make it Clerks and trying to hard.

Could it be a similar scenario facing Axl... Going through god knows how many Dat Tapes of sketches and finding the most 'GNR Elements' and trying to Add the correct vocals to make it GNR.

But Now

Axl has DITCHED most of his Chinese Influenced Merchandise for RETRO looking Merchandise. He has replaced a guitarist with his own Identity... FINCK... as much as I hate him... with some one who lastly wrote Crue sounding Hits for the Crue and dressed up in his little GNR Outfit.

As DJ has wrote 12 'GNR' Songs, could Axl have stopped to reflect on whether this is Still the GNR he had in mind... A GNR moving into the Future or a cheap Nostalgia Act with no fucking Identity anymore...

And could this be the hold up with the next album. The Question... "IS THIS STILL GNR, AND IF NOT AM I TRYING TOO HARD TO MAKE IT GNR"

Edited August 11, 2013 by jimb0

[RussTCB]

My answer to this is an honest "No". I really don't think he puts much thought into anything he does is "GN'R-Enough" or not. I see your points and understand why you're asking them, but I honestly don't think Axl worries about it.

[Amir]

Yes, I definitely believe so. I think it's a big part of why the industrial sounding '99 CD got all those classic rock guitar sound overdubs for the final album, and part of why it all took so long.

Also, this quote:

"As far as a new name… this is who I am, not whatever else someone else thinks of. I don't see myself as solely Guns, but I do see myself as the only one from the past making the effort to take it forward, whether anyone approves or not, and giving beyond what many would or fight for to do so. The name helped the music more than you could ever know, and I'm not talking in regards to studios or budgets, I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says."

[jimb0]

Yes, I definitely believe so. I think it's a big part of why the industrial sounding '99 CD got all those classic rock guitar sound overdubs for the final album, and part of why it all took so long.

Also, this quote:

"As far as a new name… this is who I am, not whatever else someone else thinks of. I don't see myself as solely Guns, but I do see myself as the only one from the past making the effort to take it forward, whether anyone approves or not, and giving beyond what many would or fight for to do so. The name helped the music more than you could ever know, and I'm not talking in regards to studios or budgets, I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says."

In those terms.. I think the BBF Sleaze worked well on the title track.... didn't really add anything to IRS and didn't work on SOD.

Great quote.

[Val22]

I don't think so. I think Axl likes the musicians he has now in GNR. They seem to get along both off and on stage and from what I've seen they are awesome live.

The original GNR members came at a time where music was too many of the same sounding bands, although I loved 80's rock bands, but GNR brought that edge and they not only sang about real life, but their lives were as dangerous as their songs were. The new GNR doesn't have that edge that the original members had, but luckily for the original members, they lived to tell about it and changed their lives before that life killed them.

There are a handful of bands that can say they changed the course of music and GNR was and always will be one of those bands.

[stumbleine]

the way I see it Axl isnt trying anything at all.

he's comfortably numb.

[wasted]

The weird thing is say with Chi dem for example, freese came in and axl said something about wanting Nirvana drums, freese then wrote a nirvana riff. But then at the same time those guys were like this is GNR so parts of it sounds like Jungle.

Better too was probably brought in by Finck but Axls melody is vey SCOM, but vocal is Jungle. Axl brings many GNR elements to it.

Then theres the shivers and deep vocals on Shackles, TWAT, Sorry.

I dont think Axl is trying to be GNR, he is GNR.

[Rovim]

The weird thing is say with Chi dem for example, freese came in and axl said something about wanting Nirvana drums, freese then wrote a nirvana riff. But then at the same time those guys were like this is GNR so parts of it sounds like Jungle.

Better too was probably brought in by Finck but Axls melody is vey SCOM, but vocal is Jungle. Axl brings many GNR elements to it.

Then theres the shivers and deep vocals on Shackles, TWAT, Sorry.

I dont think Axl is trying to be GNR, he is GNR.

With the title song it was the other way around: He first had the riff and then Axl wanted the Nirvana sound for the drums.

There are a lot of Gn'R elements in almost every song on Chinese on top of Axl's vocals and lyrics. To me it sounds like the logical evolution of UYI, but Axl is not Gn'R, and he never was.

I get what you're trying to say but Gn'R was really that band where every member was crucial to the sound, or at the very least Axl, Izzy, Slash, and Duff.

Axl took everything he knew about the Guns sound and tried to incorporate it into the album. Clearly he knows a lot about every element of that classic sound and structure and what needs to be there in theory.

Is it enough to be as authentic? I'm not sure. On some songs either it comes really close, or I don't care cause the quality speaks for itself and I just don't think about it.

On others, It's like I think to myself maybe Duff would have arranged it differently or come up with a shorter or more efficient path or just something that will be less crazy musically speaking.

Like how Better returns from the breakdown in some bizzare as fuck Pitman bubbles thing. It's interesting, and I like it, but It's not as elegant as the old stuff.

But then you have songs like There Was A Time or Catcher where the structure works, and the scope of it is very impressive, but the seamless way of which Slash used to weave his guitars with Axl's vocals is missed, Even though the guitars are brilliant in some places.

There is more of an overpowering feeling. It's like now is Bucket's turn, and now Axl, where with Slash, Izzy, and Axl it was like everyone had their different place all at once and the pieces worked together instead of in a very tight and orderly sequence if that makes any sense at all.

It's just way more planned and orchestrated, and you can hear it. The passion is still there, and the product is great cause it's Axl and I don't think he'll release an album that sucks or is not worthy, but if it proves anything it's that Axl is a very talented musician and also that he was never Gn'R, is not Gn'R, and will never be Gn'R.

The music represents the spirit of Gn'R, and I'm a fan of it so it's not really a negative thing.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Rovim

[IZZYISGNR]

axl's solo band will never be gnr

[wasted]

The weird thing is say with Chi dem for example, freese came in and axl said something about wanting Nirvana drums, freese then wrote a nirvana riff. But then at the same time those guys were like this is GNR so parts of it sounds like Jungle.

Better too was probably brought in by Finck but Axls melody is vey SCOM, but vocal is Jungle. Axl brings many GNR elements to it.

Then theres the shivers and deep vocals on Shackles, TWAT, Sorry.

I dont think Axl is trying to be GNR, he is GNR.

With the title song it was the other way around: He first had the riff and then Axl wanted the Nirvana sound for the drums.

There are a lot of Gn'R elements in almost every song on Chinese on top of Axl's vocals and lyrics. To me it sounds like the logical evolution of UYI, but Axl is not Gn'R, and he never was.

I get what you're trying to say but Gn'R was really that band where every member was crucial to the sound, or at the very least Axl, Izzy, Slash, and Duff.

Axl took everything he knew about the Guns sound and tried to incorporate it into the album. Clearly he knows a lot about every element of that classic sound and structure and what needs to be there in theory.

Is it enough to be as authentic? I'm not sure. On some songs either it comes really close, or I don't care cause the quality speaks for itself and I just don't think about it.

On others, It's like I think to myself maybe Duff would have arranged it differently or come up with a shorter or more efficient path or just something that will be less crazy musically speaking.

Like how Better returns from the breakdown in some bizzare as fuck Pitman bubbles thing. It's interesting, and I like it, but It's not as elegant as the old stuff.

But then you have songs like There Was A Time or Catcher where the structure works, and the scope of it is very impressive, but the seamless way of which Slash used to weave his guitars with Axl's vocals is missed, Even though the guitars are brilliant in some places.

There is more of an overpowering feeling. It's like now is Bucket's turn, and now Axl, where with Slash, Izzy, and Axl it was like everyone had their different place all at once and the pieces worked together instead of in a very tight and orderly sequence if that makes any sense at all.

It's just way more planned and orchestrated, and you can hear it. The passion is still there, and the product is great cause it's Axl and I don't think he'll release an album that sucks or is not worthy, but if it proves anything it's that Axl is a very talented muscian and also that he was never Gn'R, is not Gn'R, and will never be Gn'R.

The music represents the spirit of Gn'R, and I'm a fan of it so it's not really a negative thing.

No, I didn't mean that GNR is Axl. I mean more that Axl is GNR, he's going to bring those elements from UYI especially. I still hear GNR in Izzy's solo, or Slash solo. And you can see how if they were in GNR they'd bring it with them. But I don't think they try to do it. It's just them, what they do, none of them are virtusos masters of every style.

I think there's more of rounded thing on AFD, but nowadays I can hear all the parts, or sense it more. It's probably what happens when you recorded something in two weeks instead of two decades. On UYI I think it's virtually solo songs. With a only a few like YCBM, DC that sound really like all of them on the same page.

I think a good portion of CD sounds very cohesive with a few songs like Scraped, Sorry, Shackler's, ITW really jumping out. I think there's two records or they really pushed further with some songs. It could be more like an evolution from IRS, Chi Dem through Better to Shackler's, Scraped. I think they really nailed it with Scraped and Sorry with that sound.

axl's solo band will never be gnr

to me it's just one of the evolutions or ways GNR could have gone. many bands evolve from The Stones to the Manic Street Preachers. We can't all live in the past, it's only a band.

[sturginho]

The weird thing is say with Chi dem for example, freese came in and axl said something about wanting Nirvana drums, freese then wrote a nirvana riff. But then at the same time those guys were like this is GNR so parts of it sounds like Jungle.

Better too was probably brought in by Finck but Axls melody is vey SCOM, but vocal is Jungle. Axl brings many GNR elements to it.

Then theres the shivers and deep vocals on Shackles, TWAT, Sorry.

I dont think Axl is trying to be GNR, he is GNR.

With the title song it was the other way around: He first had the riff and then Axl wanted the Nirvana sound for the drums.

There are a lot of Gn'R elements in almost every song on Chinese on top of Axl's vocals and lyrics. To me it sounds like the logical evolution of UYI, but Axl is not Gn'R, and he never was.

I get what you're trying to say but Gn'R was really that band where every member was crucial to the sound, or at the very least Axl, Izzy, Slash, and Duff.

Axl took everything he knew about the Guns sound and tried to incorporate it into the album. Clearly he knows a lot about every element of that classic sound and structure and what needs to be there in theory.

Is it enough to be as authentic? I'm not sure. On some songs either it comes really close, or I don't care cause the quality speaks for itself and I just don't think about it.

On others, It's like I think to myself maybe Duff would have arranged it differently or come up with a shorter or more efficient path or just something that will be less crazy musically speaking.

Like how Better returns from the breakdown in some bizzare as fuck Pitman bubbles thing. It's interesting, and I like it, but It's not as elegant as the old stuff.

But then you have songs like There Was A Time or Catcher where the structure works, and the scope of it is very impressive, but the seamless way of which Slash used to weave his guitars with Axl's vocals is missed, Even though the guitars are brilliant in some places.

There is more of an overpowering feeling. It's like now is Bucket's turn, and now Axl, where with Slash, Izzy, and Axl it was like everyone had their different place all at once and the pieces worked together instead of in a very tight and orderly sequence if that makes any sense at all.

It's just way more planned and orchestrated, and you can hear it. The passion is still there, and the product is great cause it's Axl and I don't think he'll release an album that sucks or is not worthy, but if it proves anything it's that Axl is a very talented musician and also that he was never Gn'R, is not Gn'R, and will never be Gn'R.

The music represents the spirit of Gn'R, and I'm a fan of it so it's not really a negative thing.

Wonderful post

[wasted]

What's actually weird is that those nu metal influences, say Korn on Shackler's, Shackler's is like the most smooth rocking Korn track you ever heard. All the jump cuts are pretty NIN on Better. To me it's a different lexicon of classic rock. The whole thing reminds me of a Faith No More album produced by Andy Wallace who I think mixed CD? Even the use of effects is very FNM, Angel Dust era, or early 90s Radiohead. The effects were more like added on than actually the whole sound of the record. To mix all that with some very GNR elements from GNR, it's an interesting idea if not, like really a wise move, but would getting a Slash imitator playing loose and smooth blues based hard rock. Prob not, it would probably get more criticism. Like Dj gets now, the poor bastard.

I really don't think it's productive at this point to argue whether this is really GNR.

[Rovim]

Wasted: Yeah I agree with how you see AFD and UYI.

Chinese really does seem like it's one half of a double. Like, it will make way more sense as an album with more songs there to continue the same threads of direction some songs took on what got released.

Maybe it's a way more balanced work as a whole, and some of the rockers on CD ll will help with that.

I mean, even the little snippet we got from Jackie Chan pointed to an I.R.S/ Chinese sort of thing, but twisted. Somewhere between the intensity of Oh My God and the polish of the verses of I.R.S.

[Rovim]

What's actually weird is that those nu metal influences, say Korn on Shackler's, Shackler's is like the most smooth rocking Korn track you ever heard. All the jump cuts are pretty NIN on Better. To me it's a different lexicon of classic rock. The whole thing reminds me of a Faith No More album produced by Andy Wallace who I think mixed CD? Even the use of effects is very FNM, Angel Dust era, or early 90s Radiohead. The effects were more like added on than actually the whole sound of the record. To mix all that with some very GNR elements from GNR, it's an interesting idea if not, like really a wise move, but would getting a Slash imitator playing loose and smooth blues based hard rock. Prob not, it would probably get more criticism. Like Dj gets now, the poor bastard.

I really don't think it's productive at this point to argue whether this is really GNR.

Chinese is very traditional in the sense that it's a melting pot of what is considered classic, the Gn'R way, and Axl's ever changing interests. You're always getting a badass guitar player if not more then one.

The different exciting new blends of old 90's sounds done in a Gn'R way works for me. It's like a freaky new coctail of many different drinks you never thought will mix together very well.

I don't think it really matters if this is Gn'R cause if you like the music, you kinda take it for what it is and enjoy it.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Rovim

[wasted]

What's actually weird is that those nu metal influences, say Korn on Shackler's, Shackler's is like the most smooth rocking Korn track you ever heard. All the jump cuts are pretty NIN on Better. To me it's a different lexicon of classic rock. The whole thing reminds me of a Faith No More album produced by Andy Wallace who I think mixed CD? Even the use of effects is very FNM, Angel Dust era, or early 90s Radiohead. The effects were more like added on than actually the whole sound of the record. To mix all that with some very GNR elements from GNR, it's an interesting idea if not, like really a wise move, but would getting a Slash imitator playing loose and smooth blues based hard rock. Prob not, it would probably get more criticism. Like Dj gets now, the poor bastard.

I really don't think it's productive at this point to argue whether this is really GNR.

Chinese is very traditional in the sense that it's a melting pot of what is considered classic, the Gn'R way, and Axl's ever changing interests. You're always getting a badass guitar player if not more then one.

The different exciting new blends of old 90's sounds done in a Gn'R way works for me. It's like a freaky new coctail of many different drinks you never thought will mix together very well.

I don't think it really matters if this is Gn'R cause if you like the music, you kinda take it for what it is and enjoy it.

I do agree that this one instance for me is harder to get to grips with "it's just music" but in the end it is. I take in the whole Stones catalog as that with no sentimental attachment.

I do think there's a contradiction in terms with old GNR music/classic rock and some of nu metal, it clashes a bit. It's like Robert Plant singing Got the Life by Korn sometimes. It's a big risk, or a task to make it work. And many think this doesn't provide the comfort they got from original GNR music, but CD isn't about escapism and feelgood vibe, Axl is singing about heavy shit, to have some drunk guys on guitar playing rock n roll probably won't make sense anyway.

I agree I lost my teenage heroes, luckily I was way past thinking they could help me as role models. I can see hear where Axl is coming from, even though I can't understand the lyrics all the time.

[RussTCB]

axl's solo band will never be gnr

You don't say?

Feel free to expand on how your post has anything to do with the topic being discussed.

[username]

I felt Axl was trying very hard to "make" the new GnR in 2001/2002. Not in a bad way either. I don't feel like he's trying at all these days. He doesn't seem as passionate about it as he was in 2001/2002. Not like he's trying to prove anything anymore. I miss that.

Edited August 12, 2013 by username

[RussTCB]

I felt Axl was trying very hard to "make" the new GnR in 2001/2002. Not in a bad way either. I don't feel like he's trying at all these days. He doesn't seem as passionate about it as he was in 2001/2002. Not like he's trying to prove anything anymore. I miss that.

Now this I completely agree with. I was just watching some of RIRIII the other day for the first time in a while and I completely get what you're talking about.

[Amir]

If what MSL says over at his board is true, it could be that Axl lost a lot of passion mid-2010 and in the subsequent years when the label refused to release the follow-up album.

[magisme]

i don't think he's trying at all, with anything.

[RussTCB]

If what MSL says over at his board is true, it could be that Axl lost a lot of passion mid-2010 and in the subsequent years when the label refused to release the follow-up album.

I can understand that too. We'll probably never know exactly what's gone down with the label and Axl through the years but at some point he's probably become incredibly frustrated with whatever they won't do.

[The_Universal_Sigh]

Axls not trying to make this gnr too hard, no. He's not fucking trying at all. He's not even the same guy he used to be. It's really sad IMO as who he once was was one of the best ever. This guy fronting gnr now... I don't know who he is.

[Gia]

i don't think he's trying at all, with anything.

I agree.... it seems he's content with life... (which is good for him)

But sucks for us lol

[username]

If what MSL says over at his board is true, it could be that Axl lost a lot of passion mid-2010 and in the subsequent years when the label refused to release the follow-up album.

In the label's defense, this is a bit crude. Given Axl's reputation and the recent Chinese Democracy fiasco (the time and money it took and how difficult it was to actually get it out, the lack of promotion and the slightly disappointing sales at the time) they felt it wouldn't be a safe investment. And from a business point of view, that's very sound reasoning. So to some extent that might have been Axl's own fault. At least partially.

If what MSL says over at his board is true, it could be that Axl lost a lot of passion mid-2010 and in the subsequent years when the label refused to release the follow-up album.

I can understand that too. We'll probably never know exactly what's gone down with the label and Axl through the years but at some point he's probably become incredibly frustrated with whatever they won't do.

And vice versa.

Edited August 12, 2013 by username

[Rustycage]

axl's solo band will never be gnr

You don't say?

Feel free to expand on how your post has anything to do with the topic being discussed.

Not to speak for the person but it's obviously relevant to the topic title and the points made and also relevant to wasted's post that "Axl is GNR."

Edited August 12, 2013 by Rustycage