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Fernando's answer *UK SUBS post PG19*


loko

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You say that we shouldn't say negative things about the job Beta and her children are doing, because we don't know what Axl's instructions are for them. BUT you constantly give them praise for their "accomplishments" as the band's manager. Using your logic, how do we know that all these things you list as successes aren't really failures as they might be going AGAINST what Axl tells them to do? (Why not apply the same standard to yourself that you are applying to others?).

I praise them for the efforts made in social media (although the execution is a different matter) and I praise them for the successful touring. I think that is all. I also criticise them for their public relations and social media efforts. The reason why I feel safe praising/criticising them for these things is that it would be highly implausible that the positive things they have done go against their job description or that the failed things they have done has been per Axl's orders. It is just so very absurd that Axl would tell them to make a botch of the fan's website/club or that they would initiate touring despite Axl's wishes. In short: I feel secure that my praise and criticism isn't misplaced.

On the other hand, giving them hell because no music has been released seems a bit more unfair since it is much more probable that Axl is the obstacle to this, and not Team Brazil. I would also be very careful about praising Team Brazil for Axl being more public lately. Perhaps they are giving him a puff or perhaps it is just the moon cycle. So there are probably lots of things I could be criticising and praising them for if I just knew more.

So in summary and in repetition: I am still on the fence in regards to Team Brazil. I refuse to either say they have been great or bad until I know more. But as per my own personality I will still object to people who decides to slag them off based on their beliefs of what job they have been given to do and failed at, especially by calling Beta a "housekeeper", and so on. That's immature, disrespectful and doesn't help at all.

I have discussed these things fairly thoroughly with Jarmo lately over at HTGTH. We don't see eye to eye but at least he is a good guy to discuss with and doesn't censor me at all (which someone might find surprising since it is HTGTH). I will just end this post with the last thing I wrote to Jarmo: On a very positive note: Fernando has been chatting with us and he tells us news will soon be available and that "it will all be ok". I really think this is positive because we do need a constructive dialogue with Team Brazil. They will gain from not closing their eyes and ears to our frustration and we will gain from more transparency from the band, especially in regards to Axl's plans for the band. It is a huge shame that we -- and I am talking about the hardcore fan base as a whole -- can't get along with the management. We should be on the same side, working for the same goal which is, hopefully, to help our favourite band create and release more music. I really appreciate HV and Subsy making an effort to normalize relationships, I hope Team Brazil will see the value in this becuse it will benefit us all.

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I have discussed these things fairly thoroughly with Jarmo lately over at HTGTH. We don't see eye to eye but at least he is a good guy to discuss with and doesn't censor me at all (which someone might find surprising since it is HTGTH). I will just end this post with the last thing I wrote to Jarmo: On a very positive note: Fernando has been chatting with us and he tells us news will soon be available and that "it will all be ok". I really think this is positive because we do need a constructive dialogue with Team Brazil. They will gain from not closing their eyes and ears to our frustration and we will gain from more transparency from the band, especially in regards to Axl's plans for the band. It is a huge shame that we -- and I am talking about the hardcore fan base as a whole -- can't get along with the management. We should be on the same side, working for the same goal which is, hopefully, to help our favourite band create and release more music. I really appreciate HV and Subsy making an effort to normalize relationships, I hope Team Brazil will see the value in this becuse it will benefit us all.

just had a read of your conversation over there, he seems pretty insufferable to me, even the "generally speaking" tweet is a positive thing according to him???

Edited by sturginho
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overall I think they will get something good to happen. They wouldn't be so bothered about what people say otherwise. And Axl will help them achieve something too, more than he's going to help some mega bucks rock manager who tells him what to do.

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Reading back, it has just struck me what an odd statement this is:

Generally speaking, we have no information on tours, albums, or DVDs. When things get confirmed we'll let you know. Thanks for your patience


'Generally speaking'? So, 'specifically', ''we do have information...''? The line ''we have no information on...'' could have also been phrased better.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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overall I think they will get something good to happen. They wouldn't be so bothered about what people say otherwise. And Axl will help them achieve something too, more than he's going to help some mega bucks rock manager who tells him what to do.

But the trouble here is that they are from the *inside*. What a big bucks rock manager would be is someone from the *outside*.

The general notion in business, is that it's a good thing to have someone from the outside, with a financial incentive, running things.

I happen to agree with that general sentiment to a large degree.

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but the outsider rock manager goes for the reunion or pushes for something to make money. which isn't Axl's agenda obviously. from my pov it seems like it's about keeping it fresh, almost on the point of collapse, on the edge, as a fan that's what you feel. That uncertainity also creates genuine excitement. Ok, people have mortgages and pacemakers and stuff and just want to be spoon fed porridge by nurses at this point but GNR still has that x factor.

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I have also re-read Fernando's posts. Fernando ''spent a few hours reading through what you call "MORE ACTIVE FORUMS" when he discovered the ''hatred, racism, put downs''. Although he uses forums in the plural, it is fair to say he was on Mygnr for a lenghy period and was so angered that he instantly went over to HTGTH and posted there. Still do not see where this racism is he alludes to?

I do not understand his opening comment ''look at this guy'' which is in reply to a person mentioning that there are Going Down discussions elsehwere on the internet and expressing a hope that Axl will release music soon. ''Look at this guy''. I have looked at him Fernando and he seems to be interested in new Guns N' Roses music! What more is there to say in reply to a command like that?

''Look at this guy'' - what an odd thing to say?

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I think the comment was caused by that guy encouraging people to seek out the Going Down leak. Team Brazil doesn't like leaks, you remember ;). I also believe Fernando handled a bit in affect after having been upset from reading threads over here at mygnrforum. Again, this is exactly why I didn't particularly thought he handled things well. Managers shouldn't care about moronic comments on the Internet, they come with the territory.

Edited by SoulMonster
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What I gauged from Fernando's promise of 'news coming shortly' is that they're working to get Appetite for Democracy out. I'm calling that we get that DVD by the end of the year.

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There never was any racism really, he just used to word so that he was able to play the victim.

Racism wasn't a big point is Fernando's first post, he referred to "hatred, racism, put downs". I don't think we should overly focus on the validity of the racism claim, that would be to miss his overall point which is that this forum has allowed a lot of abusive posts towards Fernando and his family. In fact, insisting on just discussing the validity of the racism allegation is about as constructive as saying it in the first place.

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In other ways, you can see where Fernando is coming from. I have seen countless posters essentially laughing at South American posters when they attempt to defend GNR. There appears to be a sense that South American GNR fans are fanatical and incapable of being objective. That they are generally less intelligent and enlightened compared to GNR fans in western society.

That is quite racist.

Edited by NGOG
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There is bigotry rooted in most insults that are thrown around whether the person using them has considered that or not. It could be argued that the favoured phrase of 'suck my fuckin' dick' has a whiff of homophobia or misogyny about it depending on the gender of the person it is aimed at. Equally the use of the word cunt or pussy have similar undertones. I doubt anyone thinks deeply about it as they have just become stock insults.

I would definitely report anything here I felt was racist and I think some posters could afford to lay off the South America stereotype jokes but perhaps everybody including Fernando could think carefully about the language they use.

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There never was any racism really, he just used to word so that he was able to play the victim.

Racism wasn't a big point is Fernando's first post, he referred to "hatred, racism, put downs". I don't think we should overly focus on the validity of the racism claim, that would be to miss his overall point which is that this forum has allowed a lot of abusive posts towards Fernando and his family. In fact, insisting on just discussing the validity of the racism allegation is about as constructive as saying it in the first place.

It's a fine line to follow that's for sure. To me it's a relatively simple line to see, but not so easy to follow. Let's take someone else in the industry and use them as an example; Rick Rubin. If someone were to say "I can't stand Rick Rubin. Dude is crazy over rated and his productive is terrible" (etc), that's a criticism but not an insult. But if someone were to say "Rick Rubin is a piece of lazy piece of shit who just attaches his name to big projects", that just seems like more of an insult wrapped in a valid point.

I think a lot of users on GN'R boards go with the latter many times. I for one think you can get your point across with the former far easier.

In other ways, you can see where Fernando is coming from. I have seen countless posters essentially laughing at South American posters when they attempt to defend GNR. There appears to be a sense that South American GNR fans are fanatical and incapable of being objective. That they are generally less intelligent and enlightened compared to GNR fans in western society.

That is quite racist.

I've seen that type of things at many GN'R boards. I don't get it, but I've seen it quite a bit.

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I also get what Fernando means when he refers to personal racism. When people refer to Beta as a 'Brazilian nanny' or something along those lines, they are identifying an irrelevant characteristic. Instead of accurately identifying her as somebody who assimilated into US society and bettered herself professionally, they insist on referring to a past career and her country of origins.

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In other ways, you can see where Fernando is coming from. I have seen countless posters essentially laughing at South American posters when they attempt to defend GNR. There appears to be a sense that South American GNR fans are fanatical and incapable of being objective. That they are generally less intelligent and enlightened compared to GNR fans in western society.

That is quite racist.

If you take a loook at South american posters, you'll see they are much more passionate and kinda fanatical, not all of them, but yes, it's the truth.To aknowledge that or make jokes about it now and then it's not racist at all. It's reality, just check Facebook comments "Axl, Argentina loves you!!!!" "Come back to Brazil!!!!" and stuff like that.

Same thing calling them brazilians, aren't they Team Brazil? Honestly, Fernando just used the racism thing so he could be the victim. If he were an open homossexual he'd probably say people here are anti-gay as well.

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In other ways, you can see where Fernando is coming from. I have seen countless posters essentially laughing at South American posters when they attempt to defend GNR. There appears to be a sense that South American GNR fans are fanatical and incapable of being objective. That they are generally less intelligent and enlightened compared to GNR fans in western society.

That is quite racist.

If you take a loook at South american posters, you'll see they are much more passionate and kinda fanatical, not all of them, but yes, it's the truth.To aknowledge that or make jokes about it now and then it's not racist at all. It's reality, just check Facebook comments "Axl, Argentina loves you!!!!" "Come back to Brazil!!!!" and stuff like that.

Same thing calling them brazilians, aren't they Team Brazil? Honestly, Fernando just used the racism thing so he could be the victim. If he were an open homossexual he'd probably say people here are anti-gay as well.

Well, if people then consistently referred to him as that "gay, Brazilian son of a nanny", then yeah, he would probably say people here are anti-gay...wouldn't you?

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There never was any racism really, he just used to word so that he was able to play the victim.

Racism wasn't a big point is Fernando's first post, he referred to "hatred, racism, put downs". I don't think we should overly focus on the validity of the racism claim, that would be to miss his overall point which is that this forum has allowed a lot of abusive posts towards Fernando and his family. In fact, insisting on just discussing the validity of the racism allegation is about as constructive as saying it in the first place.

Hold on, are you trying to deflect it back on us?

Let's not forget, he was the one to dig up that word.

This thread wouldnt be 30 pages long without it, you know.

That word is what turns the whole thing on it's head and makes everything dead serious. The accusation has such immense gravity and impact, this is due to the surrounding culture and world where we operate in. You make it sound as if it's a little thing for him to drop a racist allegation, but it's a bad thing for us to hold him up and go, "what did you just say there."

that's a pretty mean double standard and while I agree with your general defensive sentiment to a degree, it just isn't right for you to deflect blame of this line of conversation popping up and colluding the conversation. It was Fernando who brought it up. not us.

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There never was any racism really, he just used to word so that he was able to play the victim.

Racism wasn't a big point is Fernando's first post, he referred to "hatred, racism, put downs". I don't think we should overly focus on the validity of the racism claim, that would be to miss his overall point which is that this forum has allowed a lot of abusive posts towards Fernando and his family. In fact, insisting on just discussing the validity of the racism allegation is about as constructive as saying it in the first place.

Hold on, are you trying to deflect it back on us?

Let's not forget, he was the one to dig up that word.

This thread wouldnt be 30 pages long without it, you know.

That word is what turns the whole thing on it's head and makes everything dead serious. The accusation has such immense gravity and impact, this is due to the surrounding culture and world where we operate in. You make it sound as if it's a little thing for him to drop a racist allegation, but it's a bad thing for us to hold him up and go, "what did you just say there."

that's a pretty mean double standard and while I agree with your general defensive sentiment to a degree, it just isn't right for you to deflect blame of this line of conversation popping up and colluding the conversation. It was Fernando who brought it up. not us.

You don't get it. I never said it was okay to give false accusations, like saying there is lot of racism here, because that is a deflection of the real topic which is the abuse that is being thrown his way; but it is ALSO a deflection to only focus on that specific word rather than the overall message of his post. So Fernando was guilty of playing the racism card and lots of people here are guilty of just focusing on this transgression rather than comment on the rest of what he said. It is deflection all around with people either using the racism victim card or the accused of racism victim card rather than actually focus on the overall message.

Edited by SoulMonster
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Honestly i think Fernando is right on the "put downs". I have put down the band before and most of you have as well... not that they don't deserve it, to me they do, but it has happened in the past.

As for Racism, i have never seen anyone being racist here towards Team Brazil, so that's false! As always Fernando exaggerates and lies...

Edited by AndreCC
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I think the Attitude section should be deleted.

I wouldn't want to read some of that crap if I was Axl or anyone associated with him.

It would make me angry.

I agree I think if it's too unacceptable to be in the main section then it's probably too unacceptable anyway. Some of the spoof threads in there have been very funny but the rest is a combination of deliberate trolling or things that would be fine to discuss in D&N providing people were respectful. I don't think topics should be censored or hidden away just because they are controversial but there is a balance to be found.

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It's true there is a lot of negative comments and feelings towards Team Brazil. However, to bring up Racism is just plain ridiculous.! The criticism stems from having an inexperienced team manage one of the biggest rock bands in the world. Get some new material out in a timely fashion and the negativity will fade quickly.

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