RussTCB Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I think the Attitude section should be deleted.I wouldn't want to read some of that crap if I was Axl or anyone associated with him.It would make me angry.I agree I think if it's too unacceptable to be in the main section then it's probably too unacceptable anyway. Some of the spoof threads in there have been very funny but the rest is a combination of deliberate trolling or things that would be fine to discuss in D&N providing people were respectful. I don't think topics should be censored or hidden away just because they are controversial but there is a balance to be found.This might be something to raise in the Support section. If enough users felt that way, I'm sure UK and HV would consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aArief178 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 We were Guns N' Roses fans boys!All my friends only know one band that hasn't put an album out in more than 3 years and have manager yelling at fans and caught people to be kept on the vault..Like Huge Tobias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeryen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 There never was any racism really, he just used to word so that he was able to play the victim.Racism wasn't a big point is Fernando's first post, he referred to "hatred, racism, put downs". I don't think we should overly focus on the validity of the racism claim, that would be to miss his overall point which is that this forum has allowed a lot of abusive posts towards Fernando and his family. In fact, insisting on just discussing the validity of the racism allegation is about as constructive as saying it in the first place.Hold on, are you trying to deflect it back on us?Let's not forget, he was the one to dig up that word.This thread wouldnt be 30 pages long without it, you know.That word is what turns the whole thing on it's head and makes everything dead serious. The accusation has such immense gravity and impact, this is due to the surrounding culture and world where we operate in. You make it sound as if it's a little thing for him to drop a racist allegation, but it's a bad thing for us to hold him up and go, "what did you just say there."that's a pretty mean double standard and while I agree with your general defensive sentiment to a degree, it just isn't right for you to deflect blame of this line of conversation popping up and colluding the conversation. It was Fernando who brought it up. not us.You don't get it. I never said it was okay to give false accusations, like saying there is lot of racism here, because that is a deflection of the real topic which is the abuse that is being thrown his way; but it is ALSO a deflection to only focus on that specific word rather than the overall message of his post. So Fernando was guilty of playing the racism card and lots of people here are guilty of just focusing on this transgression rather than comment on the rest of what he said. It is deflection all around with people either using the racism victim card or the accused of racism victim card rather than actually focus on the overall message.I'm not sure he said all that much.He kept repeating "so-called more active forums" a lot, which was in a derisive manner imho, what kind of commentary does that kind of action really warrant? It doesn't have any depth. Racist allegation has depth, hence 31 pages of talk, still on-going.Imho, I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well it was a reply to a guy who used the term 'more active forums' (telling people about Going Down discussions). Fernando lambasted these forums while giving his whole-hearted support to HTGTH. I presume he came on here a hour or two before he posted on HTGTH, saw some stuff he did not like (Beta being a housekeeper), worked himself into a right old rage, and then went on HTGTH to vent. He seems to be very thin-skinned. Not a good attribute for a rock manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooker Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Let's just call them Team Mom and Son... it's accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooker Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 personally I hate the term "Team"Guns N' Roses family owned and operated est 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 There were three big things which stumbled the weight of Fernando's points. First of all, you can't afford to say that you are affected by the tormenting of faceless names. At the end of the day the Lebeis family frankly coerced Axl into giving them the management of GNR. Overlook the jibes that are getting thrown at you and get to the root of the frustrations which doesn't have anything to do with an inherent sense of racism plaguing MyGNR.Secondly, I understand Fernando when he expresses frustration at being labelled by nationality rather than the merit of his job. But then why brand your entire management as 'Team Brazil' if you seek to personally get away from such a labelling?Finally, do not under any circumstances attempt to praise the nature of Jarmo's ghost town. It's a ghost town for a reason. Here Today is a place for anybody that wants to discard objectivity and engage in blind, unreasoned worship. Its entire activity relies on people thinking that by heeding Jarmo's praise praise praise policy, they might score brownie points with the camp. The only other section of activity of those who are downright mentally unstable and are happy to be part of a grand delusion. Vested interests and a party of loons, definitely not the Paradise City Fernando is claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useyorappetite Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well it was a reply to a guy who used the term 'more active forums' (telling people about Going Down discussions). Fernando lambasted these forums while giving his whole-hearted support to HTGTH. I presume he came on here a hour or two before he posted on HTGTH, saw some stuff he did not like (Beta being a housekeeper), worked himself into a right old rage, and then went on HTGTH to vent. He seems to be very thin-skinned. Not a good attribute for a rock manager.as a new fan i have to say at thirst glance, most posters here looked like a bunch of bitter cupcakes. but as i got more familiar with how this band works and read more, it got clear most of them ware just frustrated fans and had good reason to feel this way.i can see why they don't like this forum no one likes to read about her family in such a negative way. but as the manager of this band fernando needs to act more professionally and that's the problem. he's not a professional. they can't just sit there and do nothing and expect people to be positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolRanchDressing Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Are there any other celebrities in the world who get mocked on the Internet? If so, how do their managers choose to fight flame wars? Edited August 28, 2013 by CoolRanchDressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Are there any other celebrities in the world who get mocked on the Internet? If so, how do their managers choose to fight flame wars?I would imagine there is quite a few. Britney can't have had an easy ride of it for example. I have no idea whether other public figures have official defenders making their presence known.Out of interest has Perla or anyone associated with Slash ever put in an appearance over the years? They have taken a fair bit of flak too although Marc claims Slash doesn't read these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Smooth Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Are there any other celebrities in the world who get mocked on the Internet? If so, how do their managers choose to fight flame wars?Hi HRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Linguini Occurrence Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 You're completely misconstruing my statements clearly not understanding a thing I wrote. Once more, let me be clear: just because one particular strikes a deep chord with you for whatever reason, that does not make you indifferent towards other situations. Your mistake is in making it a black or white situation. It is not. There are shades of gray.I never said Beta encouraged Axl to attend the RNR HOF ceremony. Again, you are completely misconstruing my statement. I said there was nothing to support your theory that she and/or Team Brazil influenced Axl's decision to not attend the induction ceremony. There just isn't any evidence to make a definitive statement like you did.I never denied that some xenophobic portion of the fanbase may take issue with Team Brazil for their nation of origin as opposed to their skill, or lack thereof, at their job, as asinine as that may be. I'm just pointing out that that only serves to credence to Fernando's concerns.AliDrastically different behavior in similar situations is the epitome of indifference. If you are the parent of 3 children, and you're constantly lavishing gifts and money on just the eldest child, and you're not giving anything to the other two children, then you are indifferent to the two younger children. It is black and white, there's no gray area there. But since there is no authenticated video available that shows who sent the tweet, you're going to keep on denying the possibility that Axl didn't send it and maybe didn't even know about it.As for the HOF, none of us was privy to personal conversations between Beta and Axl, therefore deductive reasoning is all we've got - sorry if that's not sufficient enough for you. The fact remains while many friends, associates and fellow musicians publicly had a positive outlook on the induction and encouraged Axl to attend, Beta never publicly said one positive thing about it and never publicly encouraged Axl to attend. We all know how much control she has over Axl, how else can an Assistant (at the time) get their boss to back down on something by threatening to quit? If she was not against him attending, he would have attended. Again, no "evidence" ... just deductive reasoning.All I'm pointing out is that not only are some of Fernando's concerns justified to a degree, but they could have been prevented if Team Brazil had handled some things differently. A portion of the fanbase feels Team Brazil is using Axl and the GNR legacy to promote their own nationality, rather than what should be promoted - Axl and the band. True or not, that is the perception which Team Brazil has fostered, intentionally or not.Well I've said my peace, you can have the last word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cbgnr666 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Well it was a reply to a guy who used the term 'more active forums' (telling people about Going Down discussions). Fernando lambasted these forums while giving his whole-hearted support to HTGTH. I presume he came on here a hour or two before he posted on HTGTH, saw some stuff he did not like (Beta being a housekeeper), worked himself into a right old rage, and then went on HTGTH to vent. He seems to be very thin-skinned. Not a good attribute for a rock manager.as a new fan i have to say at thirst glance, most posters here looked like a bunch of bitter cupcakes. but as i got more familiar with how this band works and read more, it got clear most of them ware just frustrated fans and had good reason to feel this way. i can see why they don't like this forum no one likes to read about her family in such a negative way. but as the manager of this band fernando needs to act more professionally and that's the problem. he's not a professional. they can't just sit there and do nothing and expect people to be positive. Why didn't people rail at Merch,Azoff,Mcgee in the same fashion as they do at TB? Clearly management didn't become so significant a topic until TB took over. Was it how well the prior managed the band,or how great they communicated with the fanbase,or something else? Edited August 28, 2013 by cbgnr666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Why didn't people rail at Merch,Azoff,Mcgee in the same fashion as they do at TB? It's not rocket science as to why Team Brazil are subject to greater scrutiny. The three people you referred to are all heavyweight industry managers. Nobody in Team Brazil enjoy similar reputations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cbgnr666 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Why didn't people rail at Merch,Azoff,Mcgee in the same fashion as they do at TB? It's not rocket science as to why Team Brazil are subject to greater scrutiny. The three people you referred to are all heavyweight industry managers. Nobody in Team Brazil enjoy similar reputations. What did the heavyweights do better then TB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 You're completely misconstruing my statements clearly not understanding a thing I wrote. Once more, let me be clear: just because one particular strikes a deep chord with you for whatever reason, that does not make you indifferent towards other situations. Your mistake is in making it a black or white situation. It is not. There are shades of gray.I never said Beta encouraged Axl to attend the RNR HOF ceremony. Again, you are completely misconstruing my statement. I said there was nothing to support your theory that she and/or Team Brazil influenced Axl's decision to not attend the induction ceremony. There just isn't any evidence to make a definitive statement like you did.I never denied that some xenophobic portion of the fanbase may take issue with Team Brazil for their nation of origin as opposed to their skill, or lack thereof, at their job, as asinine as that may be. I'm just pointing out that that only serves to credence to Fernando's concerns.AliDrastically different behavior in similar situations is the epitome of indifference. If you are the parent of 3 children, and you're constantly lavishing gifts and money on just the eldest child, and you're not giving anything to the other two children, then you are indifferent to the two younger children. It is black and white, there's no gray area there. But since there is no authenticated video available that shows who sent the tweet, you're going to keep on denying the possibility that Axl didn't send it and maybe didn't even know about it.As for the HOF, none of us was privy to personal conversations between Beta and Axl, therefore deductive reasoning is all we've got - sorry if that's not sufficient enough for you. The fact remains while many friends, associates and fellow musicians publicly had a positive outlook on the induction and encouraged Axl to attend, Beta never publicly said one positive thing about it and never publicly encouraged Axl to attend. We all know how much control she has over Axl, how else can an Assistant (at the time) get their boss to back down on something by threatening to quit? If she was not against him attending, he would have attended. Again, no "evidence" ... just deductive reasoning.All I'm pointing out is that not only are some of Fernando's concerns justified to a degree, but they could have been prevented if Team Brazil had handled some things differently. A portion of the fanbase feels Team Brazil is using Axl and the GNR legacy to promote their own nationality, rather than what should be promoted - Axl and the band. True or not, that is the perception which Team Brazil has fostered, intentionally or not.Well I've said my peace, you can have the last word. I never denied the possibility that Axl didn't send the tweet. I just think that he did, or would find it completely unsurprising if he did.No, it is not black and white. Not at all. I'm sorry, but IMO that is just completely off-base. Being more affected by one particular situation does not constitute being unaffected or indifferent to another. Not publicly showing any emotional response to one situation does not mean you don't have one. I think your analogy is inappropriate and hypersensitive. You're reasoning, deductive or otherwise, is flawed in saying "If she was not against him attending, he would have attended" because you are making a fundamental assumption that he did not make that decision independently. There is nothing to suggest that and therein lies the deep flaw in your reasoning. Axl's issues with Slash and his unwillingness to do a reunion predate Team Brazil's management of GN'R by quite a bit. So, again, therein lies the flaw in your reasoning.Using GN'R to promote their own nationality may be a perception some have of Team Brazil, but I find it to be quite xenophobic and more the product of a xenophobic, skewed perspective than of any overt efforts by the management team.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well Merck did keep the fans informed and gave over the impression that he was trying his hardest to get Axl to release CD. He seemed just like us: a frustrated fan. Of the new band managers, I think he was the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeryen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Consider for a moment the fact that Merck never said a bad word of Axl or the band, even when Axl basically put him to the sword in public, and used the dismissal as an excuse for more of his years-go-by-with-nothing-to-show-for-it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I've read his post a few times now, And I kinda agree with a lot of his points... not the racism thing... as I really haven't encountered any just yet, and I've certainly not said anything remotely racist or condone it.As I've said before he's mistaken our frustration for "hating" on him and the band. The majority of us have no problem with either, apart from the fact that they don't seem to have any urgency to meet the demand for new music any time soon. We're just a little bummed out that our favourite band can't be bothered to get together and write, so we come here and vent... it's actually pretty healthy when you think about it A new album is not the be all and end all but... when you look at it realistically you realise that Guns have max 10/15 years of work left in them, shouldn't they be trying to fill out their catalogue bit? I mean look at other bands with similar success... they have a lot more material, subsequently they have quite a few more fans and, they are all quite pacified during the down time and happy to listen to the back catalogue. GnR on the other hand spent years making what seems to be one album which, made fans work with what they had the old albums and the few leaks, subsequently we come to end of our stash and, need a new fix before we come through the withdrawal stage or move on to something better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 You're completely misconstruing my statements clearly not understanding a thing I wrote. Once more, let me be clear: just because one particular strikes a deep chord with you for whatever reason, that does not make you indifferent towards other situations. Your mistake is in making it a black or white situation. It is not. There are shades of gray.I never said Beta encouraged Axl to attend the RNR HOF ceremony. Again, you are completely misconstruing my statement. I said there was nothing to support your theory that she and/or Team Brazil influenced Axl's decision to not attend the induction ceremony. There just isn't any evidence to make a definitive statement like you did.I never denied that some xenophobic portion of the fanbase may take issue with Team Brazil for their nation of origin as opposed to their skill, or lack thereof, at their job, as asinine as that may be. I'm just pointing out that that only serves to credence to Fernando's concerns.AliDrastically different behavior in similar situations is the epitome of indifference. If you are the parent of 3 children, and you're constantly lavishing gifts and money on just the eldest child, and you're not giving anything to the other two children, then you are indifferent to the two younger children. It is black and white, there's no gray area there. But since there is no authenticated video available that shows who sent the tweet, you're going to keep on denying the possibility that Axl didn't send it and maybe didn't even know about it.As for the HOF, none of us was privy to personal conversations between Beta and Axl, therefore deductive reasoning is all we've got - sorry if that's not sufficient enough for you. The fact remains while many friends, associates and fellow musicians publicly had a positive outlook on the induction and encouraged Axl to attend, Beta never publicly said one positive thing about it and never publicly encouraged Axl to attend. We all know how much control she has over Axl, how else can an Assistant (at the time) get their boss to back down on something by threatening to quit? If she was not against him attending, he would have attended. Again, no "evidence" ... just deductive reasoning.All I'm pointing out is that not only are some of Fernando's concerns justified to a degree, but they could have been prevented if Team Brazil had handled some things differently. A portion of the fanbase feels Team Brazil is using Axl and the GNR legacy to promote their own nationality, rather than what should be promoted - Axl and the band. True or not, that is the perception which Team Brazil has fostered, intentionally or not.Well I've said my peace, you can have the last word. I never denied the possibility that Axl didn't send the tweet. I just think that he did, or would find it completely unsurprising if he did.No, it is not black and white. Not at all. I'm sorry, but IMO that is just completely off-base. Being more affected by one particular situation does not constitute being unaffected or indifferent to another. Not publicly showing any emotional response to one situation does not mean you don't have one. I think your analogy is inappropriate and hypersensitive. You're reasoning, deductive or otherwise, is flawed in saying "If she was not against him attending, he would have attended" because you are making a fundamental assumption that he did not make that decision independently. There is nothing to suggest that and therein lies the deep flaw in your reasoning. Axl's issues with Slash and his unwillingness to do a reunion predate Team Brazil's management of GN'R by quite a bit. So, again, therein lies the flaw in your reasoning.Using GN'R to promote their own nationality may be a perception some have of Team Brazil, but I find it to be quite xenophobic and more the product of a xenophobic, skewed perspective than of any overt efforts by the management team.AliWow, there's some serious lawyer talk going on here my personal favourite line "I find it to be quite xenophobic and more the product of a xenophobic, skewed perspective than of any overt efforts by the management team"... do you work for GnR management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aninha_Hudson Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Ali is just an Axl fanboy with a lot of spare time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 After compiling a lot of data from posts, my hypothesis is that Soul Monster and Ali are like Finckle and Einhorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 You're completely misconstruing my statements clearly not understanding a thing I wrote. Once more, let me be clear: just because one particular strikes a deep chord with you for whatever reason, that does not make you indifferent towards other situations. Your mistake is in making it a black or white situation. It is not. There are shades of gray.I never said Beta encouraged Axl to attend the RNR HOF ceremony. Again, you are completely misconstruing my statement. I said there was nothing to support your theory that she and/or Team Brazil influenced Axl's decision to not attend the induction ceremony. There just isn't any evidence to make a definitive statement like you did.I never denied that some xenophobic portion of the fanbase may take issue with Team Brazil for their nation of origin as opposed to their skill, or lack thereof, at their job, as asinine as that may be. I'm just pointing out that that only serves to credence to Fernando's concerns.Ali Drastically different behavior in similar situations is the epitome of indifference. If you are the parent of 3 children, and you're constantly lavishing gifts and money on just the eldest child, and you're not giving anything to the other two children, then you are indifferent to the two younger children. It is black and white, there's no gray area there. But since there is no authenticated video available that shows who sent the tweet, you're going to keep on denying the possibility that Axl didn't send it and maybe didn't even know about it.As for the HOF, none of us was privy to personal conversations between Beta and Axl, therefore deductive reasoning is all we've got - sorry if that's not sufficient enough for you. The fact remains while many friends, associates and fellow musicians publicly had a positive outlook on the induction and encouraged Axl to attend, Beta never publicly said one positive thing about it and never publicly encouraged Axl to attend. We all know how much control she has over Axl, how else can an Assistant (at the time) get their boss to back down on something by threatening to quit? If she was not against him attending, he would have attended. Again, no "evidence" ... just deductive reasoning.All I'm pointing out is that not only are some of Fernando's concerns justified to a degree, but they could have been prevented if Team Brazil had handled some things differently. A portion of the fanbase feels Team Brazil is using Axl and the GNR legacy to promote their own nationality, rather than what should be promoted - Axl and the band. True or not, that is the perception which Team Brazil has fostered, intentionally or not.Well I've said my peace, you can have the last word. I never denied the possibility that Axl didn't send the tweet. I just think that he did, or would find it completely unsurprising if he did.No, it is not black and white. Not at all. I'm sorry, but IMO that is just completely off-base. Being more affected by one particular situation does not constitute being unaffected or indifferent to another. Not publicly showing any emotional response to one situation does not mean you don't have one. I think your analogy is inappropriate and hypersensitive. You're reasoning, deductive or otherwise, is flawed in saying "If she was not against him attending, he would have attended" because you are making a fundamental assumption that he did not make that decision independently. There is nothing to suggest that and therein lies the deep flaw in your reasoning. Axl's issues with Slash and his unwillingness to do a reunion predate Team Brazil's management of GN'R by quite a bit. So, again, therein lies the flaw in your reasoning.Using GN'R to promote their own nationality may be a perception some have of Team Brazil, but I find it to be quite xenophobic and more the product of a xenophobic, skewed perspective than of any overt efforts by the management team.Ali Wow, there's some serious lawyer talk going on here my personal favourite line "I find it to be quite xenophobic and more the product of a xenophobic, skewed perspective than of any overt efforts by the management team"... do you work for GnR management Not a lawyer. I just have a vocabulary and point out arguments that IMO are illogical and have spirited discussions.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Linguini Occurrence Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 After compiling a lot of data from posts, my hypothesis is that Soul Monster and Ali are like Finckle and Einhorne.Credit to both of them (Soul Monster and Ali that is) for always keeping the discussions polite and civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbo Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Are there any other celebrities in the world who get mocked on the Internet? If so, how do their managers choose to fight flame wars?Hi HRS.Party pooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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