Hey "Team Brazil"... nin.com... TAKE NOTES (and this totally pertains to GNR as we know it)

[Matt13]

What can I say?

www.nin.com

That's how a band manages not only a brand, but music that is still relevant for a lead singer mastermind that is fifty years of age or older.

Release music. Release free tracks. Build up hype. Stream an entire album before it's for sale. Show 'behind the scenes' videos showing all of us how real you are, or aren't. Make us believe GNR is as viable as NIN.

Not only make us believe all of that, show us you have music that fits the bill.

NIN (TR, that is) does everything right.

GNR does everything wrong.

www.nin.com

Take f'n notes.

[Estranged Reality]

What can I say?

www.nin.com

That's how a band manages not only a brand, but music that is still relevant for a lead singer mastermind that is fifty years of age or older.

Release music. Release free tracks. Build up hype. Stream an entire album before it's for sale. Show 'behind the scenes' videos showing all of us how real you are, or aren't. Make us believe GNR is as viable as NIN.

Not only make us believe all of that, show us you have music that fits the bill.

NIN (TR, that is) does everything right.

GNR does everything wrong.

www.nin.com

Take f'n notes.

I agree with you, but Trent has basically been NIN since day one, and he's maintained an active fanbase. Part of the reason he's maintained his die-hard cult fanbase is because he was one of the first artists out there to utilize the Internet; plus, beyond the die-hard fans, there are music listeners out there who are just casual fans and still actively engage interest with the rotating line-up of NIN. I don't think that's the case with GN'R anymore - it pains me to say this but I think outside the die-hard fanbase no one really cares about Axl's new group. Axl dropped the ball with promoting his new lineup when it mattered. It's sad but that's just how it is. I don't think they have as much potential for a social media audience as Trent/NIN does.

And yes, that is ultimately their fault because for years they failed to actively engage their audience via Internet or traditional print or broadcast media. People had no way of knowing who was even in the band half the time unless they went to a concert. No interviews, no cover article for magazines; nothing.

So while I'd love nothing more than for Axl and current GN'R to take a page from NIN and start doing this stuff, I feel like the only people who'd be interested would be the dwindling forum population. I'd love to see a website launched with new tunes and interactive media, but most people these days just wanna hear the old music and hope for a reunion.

As sad as it is I think Axl may have finally realized this? It may be why he seems so content to endlessly tour on his back catalog these days. Or maybe it's the opposite -- maybe they just don't want to acknowledge this, and are afraid by putting new tunes online and not receiving tons of attention from the mainstream music fans, the lack of impact would damage Axl's confidence even more (this is purely speculation on my part). I don't know if he finally gave up or what, but if he'd really pushed the new band earlier on and tried to promote his bandmembers and struck while the iron was hot, he could have carried on GN'R into the digital age. Instead he let the legacy of Original GN'R strengthen over the years by seemingly doing nothing to promote his new lineup. I hate to be pessimistic but I sorta just think it's too late now for Axl to try to establish this band as its own entity that the average music fan would have an interest in.

edit: i hid two posts above. to the people who posted them, i get your point and i know it's light-hearted, didn't remove them because they were necessarily objectionable, but I REALLY don't want the topic to get derailed with that redundant nonsense. keep it to the other thread...please keep this one on point!

[powerwave]

Trent has not been doing everything right. His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best. His concerts are basically festivals of nostalgia with a few new tracks thrown in that usually get muted response from the audience.

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

Edited September 2, 2013 by powerwave

[Ricky_Rose]

Trent has not been doing everything right. His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best. His concerts are basically festivals of nostalgia with a few new tracks thrown in that usually get muted response from the audience.

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

This thread isn't discussing the quality of Trent’s music, which would be a subjective conversation, but rather how he promotes his music and treats his fan base.

[Coma16]

Trent has not been doing everything right. His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best. His concerts are basically festivals of nostalgia with a few new tracks thrown in that usually get muted response from the audience.

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

This thread isn't discussing the quality of Trents music, which would be a subjective conversation, but rather how he promotes his music and treats his fan base.

Honest question because I don't really follow NIN. How does the die-hard NIN fan base think of what has happened to NIN since the mid-90s?

[Ricky_Rose]

Trent has not been doing everything right. His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best. His concerts are basically festivals of nostalgia with a few new tracks thrown in that usually get muted response from the audience.

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

This thread isn't discussing the quality of Trents music, which would be a subjective conversation, but rather how he promotes his music and treats his fan base.

Honest question because I don't really follow NIN. How does the die-hard NIN fan base think of what has happened to NIN since the mid-90s?

I wouldn't know. I don't consider myself a die-hard fan and I don't really participate on their forums either.

On a personal level though, I know that nothing that Trent will ever release will have such a big impact on me as Pretty Hate Machine and the Downward Spiral did. The memories that are connected to those records are too meaningful to me and nothing new will ever compare to that.

WIth that being said, listening to new music from an artist that helped shape who you became is always entertaining, regardless of the quality of the music. I will always give Trent's new music a chance, his music has earned him that much with me.

Plus, new music, even if it doesn't compare to what made me a fan, will always be better than no music.

[axlrod]

From hair metal era to world wide web (social media) era, GNR has been known differently from most of the bands out there.

CA: You don't seem like someone who trawls Facebook or Twitter or You Tube. Do any of the fan or media comments filter through to you? What are your thoughts on social media?

AR: I'm not that directly involved with social media, though we do use it with GNR. I'll make a post here and there. I get shown or told about things people think I'll have an interest in, updates. I like that our fans can keep up to date and connect with each other.

Regarding social media, I really don't understand what appears to be the general population's lack of concern over privacy issues in publicising their entire lives on the internet for others to see to such an extent... but hey it's them, not me, so whatever.

However, when so many seem to be making similar choices regarding their privacy to where it seems to become the norm, and in turn businesses use someone's lack of involvement with social media to marginalise or stereotype and stigmatise them, or use it as grounds not to hire someone, I feel it's extremely unfair and seems a bit Orwellian.

CA: A lot of people appreciated the fact you stuck to your beliefs and didn't do something to please other people. You must have noticed a precedent for members of other bands reuniting for the right amount of cash or prestige - not the best motivation.

AR: The surprising amount of public support has felt good and, as I've said, is a relief.

In regard to other bands what another person or band does is just that, meaning it is what someone else chooses to do for whatever reasons. I, like anyone, can have an opinion about those choices but ultimately it's not my life or my band and how it affects my life is negligible. As for money and prestige, if one has an opportunity to make money and/or advance their position or place in life there can be a lot to weigh and consider, such as responsibilities, goals and objectives etc. We all make choices, deal with our sense of priorities, principles, ethics, morals, balancing, juggling, making compromises... or not! Ha!

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/the-craziest-axl-rose-interview-ever/story-e6frfn09-1226593423630

[AndreCC]

What can I say?

www.nin.com

That's how a band manages not only a brand, but music that is still relevant for a lead singer mastermind that is fifty years of age or older.

Release music. Release free tracks. Build up hype. Stream an entire album before it's for sale. Show 'behind the scenes' videos showing all of us how real you are, or aren't. Make us believe GNR is as viable as NIN.

Not only make us believe all of that, show us you have music that fits the bill.

NIN (TR, that is) does everything right.

GNR does everything wrong.

www.nin.com

Take f'n notes.

"Life doesn't owe you your own happy ending" - Axl

"Have Fun with the stolen music, no more albums" - Beta

Edited September 2, 2013 by AndreCC

[PerthGNR]

^ beta actually said that??

[RichardNixon]

Trent has not been doing everything right. His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best. His concerts are basically festivals ofwith a few new tracks thrown in that usually get muted response from the audience.

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

Hesitation Marks has been getting a lot of rave reviews and a very positive fan response. Year Zero is also considered one NIN's best albums. NIN shows are always awesome and he shakes things up for new tours. TR is hardly a nostalgia act.

I love both GN'R and NIN and it's a lot more fun being a fan of the latter. At least NIN actually release new music.

What can I say?

www.nin.com

That's how a band manages not only a brand, but music that is still relevant for a lead singer mastermind that is fifty years of age or older.

Release music. Release free tracks. Build up hype. Stream an entire album before it's for sale. Show 'behind the scenes' videos showing all of us how real you are, or aren't. Make us believe GNR is as viable as NIN.

Not only make us believe all of that, show us you have music that fits the bill.

NIN (TR, that is) does everything right.

GNR does everything wrong.

www.nin.com

Take f'n notes.

"Life doesn't owe you your own happy ending" - Axl

"Have Fun with the stolen music, no more albums" - Beta

That's bullshit. A new album will be released or it won't. A leak of a rough demo doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

Edited September 2, 2013 by RichardNixon

[Dan H.]

Lets get a few things straight, subjectivly.

One, the Downward Spiral and the Fragile are both much more important and influential albums than anything GNR has ever produced.

Two, Trent's musicianship has diminished since the 2000's, I'll give you that. And even as someone who loves NIN and dislikes GNR, I'd say Chinese Democracy is even a better effort than The Slip.

To whoever said NIN shows are a nostalgia act needs to open their eyes. On 'Wave Goodbye' Trent refused to play Closer, and other of his hit songs, on principle of playing deep cuts and B-sides for his die hard fans.

Even on this tour, a third of the show is hits, a third of the show is new music, and a third of the show is a rotating setlist of B-sides and deep cuts.

It'd be like GNR alternating between Locomotive, Coma, and Crash Diet at every show.

Trent is an amazing marketer, an Oscar winning artist, THE pioneer of industrial music, and he brings a unique and fresh philosopjy to the artist to fan relationship.

[Axl_morris]

Not another NIN/Trent thread... we get one of these every month of D&N.

[Bono]

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

Oh man that's a good one! You say it like you actually believe it.

[AndreCC]

The thing is if you compare Trent with Axl:

Being completely honest and this is not to knock down Axl, but in Trent you see a guy who's always motivated in doing new music, experimenting new songs and who's passionate about the whole concept of making music and an album.

When you look at Axl you don't see a guy who's motivated in either of that. You see a guy that is doing his last laps before retirement...

[Dan H.]

Trent has not been doing everything right. His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best. His concerts are basically festivals of nostalgia with a few new tracks thrown in that usually get muted response from the audience.

At least Axl makes music with real guitars and drums, unlike the shitty laptop music Trent has been releasing.

You are a fool if you don't think half of Chinese Democracy with synthesisers and drum machines.

Hell... November Rain was half synthesisers dude.

[AndreCC]

Powerage i can't believe you have sair that, as i have a lot of respect for you, but i guess you're entitled to your own opinion. To me Year Zero is a great album and the follow up was good as well. Also, Year Zero had a great and intriguing marketing machine behind it, which is always cool. That whole thing with figuring out a puzzle was cool.

I do like Chinese Democracy. I don't LOVE it and it's not one of my favorite records of all time, but i do LIKE it, however it does have a lot of pro tools and copy paste sounds, drum machines, synths and other not needed stuff...

Edited September 2, 2013 by AndreCC

[RichardNixon]

Lets get a few things straight, subjectivly.

One, the Downward Spiral and the Fragile are both much more important and influential albums than anything GNR has ever produced.

I completely disagree. I am a huge fan of those albums, but I would hardly call them more "important and influential." In terms of influence, the bands that sounded like NIN back in the 90s, like (the excellent Filter) have faded into obscurity and there aren't any contemporary bands that I can think of that sound like NIN. In terms of "importance," that's a little more subjective, but in terms of radio play, legacy, etc. GN'R ('87-'93) probably trumps NIN.

Two, Trent's musicianship has diminished since the 2000's, I'll give you that. And even as someone who loves NIN and dislikes GNR, I'd say Chinese Democracy is even a better effort than The Slip.

If you dislike GN'R, why are you a member of this board? I'd probably take CD over The Slip, but I like them both. I'd also say that Trent's work in the 00s was outstanding. Year Zero is probably the best album of the 00s, IMHO.

To whoever said NIN shows are a nostalgia act needs to open their eyes. On 'Wave Goodbye' Trent refused to play Closer, and other of his hit songs, on principle of playing deep cuts and B-sides for his die hard fans.

I caught the tour and he played plenty of well-known songs.

Even on this tour, a third of the show is hits, a third of the show is new music, and a third of the show is a rotating setlist of B-sides and deep cuts.

It'd be like GNR alternating between Locomotive, Coma, and Crash Diet at every show.

Trent is an amazing marketer, an Oscar winning artist, THE pioneer of industrial music, and he brings a unique and fresh philosopjy to the artist to fan relationship.

Well said.

Edited September 2, 2013 by RichardNixon

[wasted]

Trent and Axl two different jobs. Axl is this big 70s style rock band. Trent is the pro tool genius. Gary Numan goes stadium rock.

It seems harder to be Axl Rose in the 21st century.

[Estranged Reality]

His music post 2000 has been mediocre at best.

And yet he's had some of the biggest hits of his career, had career-defining tours and work outside of NIN (Academy Award-winning film soundtracks for example).

Plus, your comment doesn't even really make sense. Plenty of NIN fans love his recent stuff. Year Zero, The Slip and his latest record were all well-greeted. And you said he makes laptop music but The Slip in particular sounds like it was recorded very raw and in your face.

[Matt13]

All I know is, Robin Finck would rather be on Trent's payroll playing Trent's music vs. being on Axl's payroll playing music that Finck himself helped write.

That's saying something.

It seems as if Axl destroyed the classic lineup because he was, in fact, influenced by NIN and Trent's work. That's the direction he wanted to go in... a sort of NIN meets GNR type sound. Unfortunately, that's where Axl went wrong. He didn't realize GNR was already a unique entity with a unique sound. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

Other folks have already commented about Trent being a nostalgia act now or whatever, and they must be smoking crack. NIN's albums since 00 have been fantastic. What, there's been three or four now? The Slip really was a free release of b-sides and clearly just a gift to the fans. B-sides, mind you, that are superior to just about anything on CD (although I'd admit, that's a subjective opinion on my part). But even then, it's a very cool album in it's own right, AND FREE TO THE FANS!

I listened to Hesitation Marks in full last night and it's FANTASTIC. I've watched some of NIN's new tour, and they're FANTASTIC. Next to Floyd's division bell tour, you're not going to find a better visually pleasing show than NIN... seen them live twice and did not dissapoint.

NIN might be able to pull off the whole 'utilizing social media' bit because, well, THEY ACTUALLY DO IT.

GNR does not. They even make you pay a membership fee to access 'Team Brazils' propaganda forum and some photo links on GNR's official website. Really?!

When I visit NIN.com, there's unreleased material, behind the scenes promo videos... all sorts of engaging things for the fans, with no membership fee in sight. And whether you like NIN or not, watch the promo video Trent has up right now about putting their current tour together (has an interview with Robin Finck too... pretty cool). You can CLEARLY see Trent cares not only about his fan base, but his craft. He does things right. He prepares mentally, physically and rehearses non-stop, worried about what the fans are going to think about NIN's performance.

Axl's band rehearses w/o him and he shows up for tours out of shape, out of breath and honestly, out of time. If Axl wanted to make GNR relevant again, he'd be following a blueprint that Trent Reznor has laid out for decades. Axl destroyed GNR wanting to go in more of a direction of NIN, and it maybe would have worked if he did the things Trent does. You know, actually release music on a semi-regular basis, engage the fans utilizing social media and show up in shape and ready to put on kick ass shows.

In reality, Axl isn't doing any of that. Some of you think that strategy wouldn't work for Axl/GNR. And you might be right. But it seems GNR has NO STRATEGY AT ALL! The only strategy I see is 'Team Brazil' positioning themselves to live off the GNR name. I know we "don't know the whole situation" on that front, but man, from the outside looking it, it reeks of Axl being used to no end.

And maybe that's the real reason why GNR has been destroyed.

I'm a GNR fan, but I don't come here often anymore and hardly follow the band. I'll check in for leaks or a reunion announcement or whatever... but man... I just wish Axl would have succeeded with new GNR. Now I want a reunion more than ever, though. And either way, if GNR wants to be relevant again (they have a little window of time to do so), they gotta follow more of a NIN business and marketing strategy.

I think the entire new band wants this, but Axl and/or Team Brazil (more-so the latter), are holding them back. Team Brazil for obvious reasons (beggars and hangers on), but Axl is more of a mystery. He wanted/wants big things for new GNR, but I'd have to agree with ER here... I think he realizes that ship has sailed. I'm afraid we're going to have to simply deal with a GNR cover band/nostalgia act every few years to keep Team Brazil's lavish lifestyle up to speed, or hope Axl cashes in his chips and decides to pad his coffers with a reunion tour.

GNR is simply no longer relevant, and more than likely will never be relevant again.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Matt13

[RussTCB]

What can I say?

www.nin.com

That's how a band manages not only a brand, but music that is still relevant for a lead singer mastermind that is fifty years of age or older.

Release music. Release free tracks. Build up hype. Stream an entire album before it's for sale. Show 'behind the scenes' videos showing all of us how real you are, or aren't. Make us believe GNR is as viable as NIN.

Not only make us believe all of that, show us you have music that fits the bill.

NIN (TR, that is) does everything right.

GNR does everything wrong.

www.nin.com

Take f'n notes.

"Life doesn't owe you your own happy ending" - Axl

"Have Fun with the stolen music, no more albums" - Beta

^ beta actually said that??

No.... she didn't.

[CoolRanchDressing]

Instead of spending a generation trying to rip off Trent reznors music, axl should have copied his work ethic

[LTD]

Honest question because I don't really follow NIN. How does the die-hard NIN fan base think of what has happened to NIN since the mid-90s?

Since Mid 90's? Trying to keep it short and simple..

- The Fragile Studio album. One of my top 5 favorite albums of all time, beautiful shit

- Still an EP given as a bonus disc alongside the Live album released in early 00s. 4 new songs, 4 remotely acoustic, stripped apart versions of some old stuff. Brilliant stuff. Alarmingly high portion of my top 8 favorite nin tracks come off this EP.

- With teeth. Studio album. Half a dozen of brilliant tracks I love to bits, half a dozen songs I never wanna hear again. Only album by Nin where I consider TR having failed in what he has tried to do.

- Year Zero Awesome album. Not Fragile or TDS awesome..but awesome. I remember being so glad and relieved to notice he can still build an excellent, highly intact experience that is an album in more meaningful ways than just having 12 tracks on 1 CD.

- Ghosts, The Slip Mostly Reznor having a blast with his freedom from grip of any major label. It'd be unfair and useles to consider either as some sort of ambitious intact studio album that is out there to please fans, DJs, people. Both are him and Atticus recording some shit and then releasing it like two weeks later.

- Hesitation marks Haven't gotten a change to listen it yet. Officially out tomorrow... is all over the net by now, legally and otherwise, but figured I'd wait:p

- Between 1995 and now there have been like four different live Nin - incarnations: one being identical to what they they had mid 90s(= perfectly okay set up for Fragile) one having good musicans but bad chemistry (With Teeth Era) and two that are regarded fucking awesome by literally everyone who has been lucky enough to see them(One from 2009, one touring right now)

Prolly shit ton of stuff I forgot to think about;p Haven't really paid attention to his work with movie soundtracks..Social Media won him an Osacar tho.

Oh yeah, 3 or 4 remix albums. These are mostly people orbitting the nin universe collobarating and arsing about. Thigs Falling Apart (remixes of Fragile) has some BEAUTIFUL stuff in there and I much recommend it to anyone.

Not a bad track record?

As a conclusion of sorts,significant majority of the reasons why people, me included, have come to appreicate Nin/TR so goddamned much has everything to do with what Nin has achieved between 1999 and now..rather than 1989-1999. All in all, he is surprisingly free of his ancient past as an artist. - Both in eyes of media and people following music industry as a whole. Not many artists manage to grow out of their break through records and hayday years as well as he has.

In many ways Axl makes a fine Anti-Trent:

When Nin ran to legal issues having to do with release of Closure - DVD, TR simply leaked it to net himself. Around 2007 or so Rob Sheridan informed TR that most illegal Nin torrents floating Pirate Bay are of shit quality.,. Reznor leaked entire nin catalogue in Losless to Pirate Bay in order to redeem this. During their 2009 tour, it took considerable effort from Nin managment to ensure venues where they play allow fans to record both audio and video of it all as they please. The Slip, 1 cd of Ghosts were leaked by Nin before official release..and distributed for free since. Oh yeah, iirc around mid 00s he sued his ex-manager and WON THE CASE. None of these things are something I can imagine Axl doing. They both like to flame their fans tho.. I remeber TR going tourette over somebody who called him old:p Plus during most live performances of Sin, Reznor proceeded to assrape Robin Finck with microphone. When has Axl ever assraped Finck? Never, that's when.

Generally speaking people blame Team Brazil too much I think. If I'd have to guess, I would assume they make terrible shit managment team from hell. Yet, in case of bands like GNR, I'm pretty sure BAD managers is something that never really radiates all the way to fans/audience. Things they fuck up with might result in stuff like shittier contracts, more expensive tours,tiring schedules, more tedious conditions for people responsible for hauling gear and DJ's butt plug collection. It can cause headaches for band and people running the circus, but none of that necessarily shows all the way to us.

My guess is that from " our POV" with band like GNR, bad managment results in situation where band does whatever the fuck the frontman wants. This would be different if GNR were some democracy of 5 guys..or some endless clash of 2 huge egos like Oasis was. Volatile stuff like this surely falls apart with bad managers. In band where band is Axl plus four musicans with questionable integrity plus one guitarist whose main ambitions lay in being a camwhoring male prostittute, bad managment doesn't really matter. It's not like there can ever be some damaging clash of titans taking place. What Axl says, happens. End of argument. Good managment would mean stuff Axl doesn't want to do might occasionally get done. Bad managment means only stuff Axl wants to do gets done. Axl doesn't want to release new songs or in general do exiting things. So that's the end of it. GNR isn't so mind dumbingly boring because of (bad) manager but despite of (bad)manager.

Edited September 2, 2013 by LTD

[cuneo77]

and take notes from metallica on how to run a fan club..

Edited September 5, 2013 by cuneo77