Is There Was A Time the song we've heard about called Thyme?

[Apollo]

Is that just a coincidence on the "time" and "thyme" thing, or did the song Thyme turn out to be There Was a Time?

(Sorry if this has already been answered). I was just looking at old rumored song titles and wondered about this one.

Thanks to the first person who answers!

[Amir]

Nah, Axl referred to Thyme separately after CD came out.

Q: Axl, here's a list of rumored song titles. Can you tell us which ones are bogus and which ones are real?

Ides Of March ('98), Oklahoma ('98), Atlas Shrugged ('99), Closing In On You ('99), Cock-A-Roach Soup ('99), Friend Or Foe ('99), Hearts Get Killed ('99), No Love Remains ('99), Oh My God ('99), Something Always ('99), Suckerpunched ('99), Zip It ('99), Silkworms ('00), Down By The Ocean ('01), Leave Me Alone ('02), Seven ('02), The General ('02), Thyme ('02), Quick Song ('05), Zodiac ('05), Motormouth ('06), We Were Lying ('06)

A: Ides Of March, Oklahoma, Atlas Shrugged, Oh My God, Silkworms , Down By The Ocean (Izzy), Leave Me Alone, Seven , The General , Thyme , Quick Song , Zodiac Most all titles subject to change w/out warning and r considered working titles. (Axl Rose, chinesedemocracy.com, Dec. 2008)

[volcano62]

Good question.

I also wonder if "No love remains" is actually the Jackie Chan song.

If I am not mistaken "Lies they tell" became Scraped

[Amir]

Yeah, according to GNREvo this may have been track listing at one point:

1. Chinese Democracy
2. Riad
3. Shackler's Revenge
4. Stardust
5. If The World
6. Better
7. This I Love
8. There Was A Time
9. The Lies They Tell
10. Sorry
11. I.R.S.
12. Madagascar
13. Prostitute

*Catcher In The Rye was not going to be included.

There's also this Scraped remix intro called "The Lies They Tell" (prob just re-used original name for remix) from "French Eric" which some thought was fake, but then ended up sounding like live intro:

You also see "Stardust" in booklet, was (another) working title for Street of Dreams.

We also know Atlas Shrugged was gonna be on there at one point, but was too long.

[Apollo]

Good question.

I also wonder if "No love remains" is actually the Jackie Chan song.

If I am not mistaken "Lies they tell" became Scraped

From those two titles, they would certainly fit the two songs you mention.

[Download]

did the full version of that eric cadieux mix " lies they tell" ever come out? I heard the first 45 seconds of it or however long it was

[luciusfunk]

Good question.

I also wonder if "No love remains" is actually the Jackie Chan song.

If I am not mistaken "Lies they tell" became Scraped

Axl said No Love Remains wasn't a real title.

[wasted]

Beltrami said he did 4 tracks. On CD SOD, TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute have his credits.

Madagascar samples Seven.

Thyme and Time.

My guess he worked on these songs under working titles.

Or theres other more orchestral versions he worked on that coukd be on the remix album.

Also have suspicions Atlas is Catcher. Glam rock Nov Rain. Kind of. They are never mentioned together. Early on atlas was named with other CD songs but catcher. Ron added solos to catcher and atlas.

Prob wrong.

Axl may gave us the CD II traclisting there.

[axlsalinger]

"[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...] A song called 'Seven,' which is the one [...] I actually wrote a guitar part [on]. There was one called 'Thyme,' one called 'The General,' one called 'Leave Me Alone.'" (Marco Beltrami, IGN, 07/20/03)

[Flayer]

I've never bought into the theory that all the working titles Axl mentioned got turned into Chinese Democracy songs.

[wasted]

Leave me alone is now Soul monster.

So we only have two so far. Unless the general is the intro to CD.

The numbers dont add up.

What songs is beltrami credited on CD?

[wasted]

Did beltrami write guitar part on madagascar?

[luciusfunk]

Beltrami said he did 4 tracks. On CD SOD, TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute have his credits.

Madagascar samples Seven.

Thyme and Time.

My guess he worked on these songs under working titles.

Or theres other more orchestral versions he worked on that coukd be on the remix album.

Also have suspicions Atlas is Catcher. Glam rock Nov Rain. Kind of. They are never mentioned together. Early on atlas was named with other CD songs but catcher. Ron added solos to catcher and atlas.

Prob wrong.

Axl may gave us the CD II traclisting there.

Atlas Shrugged isn't Catcher in the Rye. Bumblefoot mentioned playing on the song and it not being included on the album because of time restraints on the disc.

[jman2000]

did the full version of that eric cadieux mix " lies they tell" ever come out? I heard the first 45 seconds of it or however long it was

That Eric Cadieux intro has been confirmed as fake. Sorry

[axlsalinger]

Leave me alone is now Soul monster.

So we only have two so far. Unless the general is the intro to CD.

The numbers dont add up.

What songs is beltrami credited on CD?

It's confusing because both Marco Beltrami and Paul Buckmaster worked on various CD songs. It's Buckmaster who worked on the ones you mentioned, as per the link below. So did Beltrami work on 4 different ones, or the same 4 under code names? We haven't heard any of the 4 yet, so it seems like Beltrami was hired as the conductor for the Chinese Democracy 2 train, to be frozen in carbonite indefinitely:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/releases/newalbum.htm

1. Chinese Democracy (Freese/Rose) - "almost grungy" according to RS, first performed in Las Vegas Also performed live during tours.

2. Shackler's Revenge (Rose/Carroll/Costanzo/Mantia/Finck/Scaturro) - featured in Rock Band 2 video game.

3. Better (mentioned on RS.com on Jan 17, 2006) Performed live in 2006-7.

4. Street Of Dreams - previously called The Blues, first performed in Las Vegas, apparently Paul Buckmaster worked on arrangements on this track. Also performed live during tours.

5. If The World (Rose/Pitman) - featured in Body Of Lies movie.

6. There Was A Time - mentioned in RS (Jan 2000 & Jan 17, 2006) , apparently Paul Buckmaster worked on arrangements on this track. Performed live in 2006.

7. Catcher In The Rye - mentioned in Rolling Stone (Jan 2000)

8. Scraped

9. Riad N' The Bedouins - first performed in Las Vegas

10. Sorry - (mentioned in Rolling Stone magazine October 2006)

11. I.R.S. - mentioned in RS (Jan 2000) , supposed to have been played on Eddie Trunk's radio show on Aug 30th, 2003. Two clips of the song were leaked in April 2005 (on the 1st and on the 8th). Performed live during tours.

12. Madagascar - first performed in Rio de Janeiro, apparently Paul Buckmaster worked on arrangements on this track. Also performed live during tours.

13. This I Love (the title has been around since the 90s, apparently the song might feature a harp)

14. Prostitute - mentioned in Spin magazine, apparently Paul Buckmaster worked on arrangements on this track.

Rumored titles:

Seven

Soul Monster AKA Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul (working title: Leave Me Alone)

General

Thyme

The four titles above were mentioned on marcobeltrami.com. Apparently, Marco Beltrami was asked to provide orchestral arrangements for the above songs in October 2002.

Edited September 4, 2013 by axlsalinger

[axlsalinger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Beltrami

It was reported in October 2002 on Beltrami's official website that he had worked on orchestral arrangements for Thyme, The General and Leave Me Alone from the then-unreleased Guns N' Roses album Chinese Democracy. While none of those tracks appear on the final track listing of the album, they were confirmed as being recorded during the sessions with a possible chance of release in the future. However, he was credited officially for providing arrangements on Street Of Dreams, Madagascar, There Was A Time, This I Love and Prostitute. As a sidenote, 'Chinese Democracy' is also the name of a track on Beltrami's score for 3:10 to Yuma.

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/features/the-chinese-democracy-years-2002-the-queen-is-dead/

In the summer, orchestrations were ordered for a total of eight tracks. Film music composer Marco Beltrami was asked to provide orchestral arrangements: “I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed.” Beltrami was given four songs to orchestrate, with the titles Seven, Thyme, The General and Leave Me Alone.

“They had finished tracks and then I added orchestral stuff on top of it. The music was eclectic at the time that I was doing it. They pretty much had the band tracks down, [but] there were no lyrics on the songs that I was working on. I thought the album was coming out in September.”

At around the same time, British arranger Paul Buckmaster worked on the songs The Blues, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute. “Prostitute is a mid-up, kind of biting, aggressive rhythm section,” he told website Sp1at. “The way I wrote for the string section (a 32-piece group, consisting of 10 first violins, eight second violins, six violas, and eight cellos) gives the song another dimension of ice and fire – kind of powerful.”

Both men are credited on the final album’s credits for ‘Orchestral arrangements’ on Street Of Dreams (previously known as The Blues), There Was A Time (aka TWAT), Madagascar and Prostitute.

[wasted]

Beltrami said he did 4 tracks. On CD SOD, TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute have his credits.

Madagascar samples Seven.

Thyme and Time.

My guess he worked on these songs under working titles.

Or theres other more orchestral versions he worked on that coukd be on the remix album.

Also have suspicions Atlas is Catcher. Glam rock Nov Rain. Kind of. They are never mentioned together. Early on atlas was named with other CD songs but catcher. Ron added solos to catcher and atlas.

Prob wrong.

Axl may gave us the CD II traclisting there.

Atlas Shrugged isn't Catcher in the Rye. Bumblefoot mentioned playing on the song and it not being included on the album because of time restraints on the disc.

i know what he said. I just dont know how to take what he says.

Im pretty sure these tracks exist im just playing devils advocate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Beltrami

It was reported in October 2002 on Beltrami's official website that he had worked on orchestral arrangements for Thyme, The General and Leave Me Alone from the then-unreleased Guns N' Roses album Chinese Democracy. While none of those tracks appear on the final track listing of the album, they were confirmed as being recorded during the sessions with a possible chance of release in the future. However, he was credited officially for providing arrangements on Street Of Dreams, Madagascar, There Was A Time, This I Love and Prostitute. As a sidenote, 'Chinese Democracy' is also the name of a track on Beltrami's score for 3:10 to Yuma.

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/features/the-chinese-democracy-years-2002-the-queen-is-dead/

In the summer, orchestrations were ordered for a total of eight tracks. Film music composer Marco Beltrami was asked to provide orchestral arrangements: I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. Beltrami was given four songs to orchestrate, with the titles Seven, Thyme, The General and Leave Me Alone.

They had finished tracks and then I added orchestral stuff on top of it. The music was eclectic at the time that I was doing it. They pretty much had the band tracks down, [but] there were no lyrics on the songs that I was working on. I thought the album was coming out in September.

At around the same time, British arranger Paul Buckmaster worked on the songs The Blues, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute. Prostitute is a mid-up, kind of biting, aggressive rhythm section, he told website Sp1at. The way I wrote for the string section (a 32-piece group, consisting of 10 first violins, eight second violins, six violas, and eight cellos) gives the song another dimension of ice and fire kind of powerful.

Both men are credited on the final albums credits for Orchestral arrangements on Street Of Dreams (previously known as The Blues), There Was A Time (aka TWAT), Madagascar and Prostitute.

Thanks this reallg clears it up. He worked on 8 or 9 tracks. Which means those tracks are real. Although the band songs comment sheds some grey too.

[Amir]

Seven is a separate song as well. Here's a quote from Brain from August 2010:

Q: [...] I am very excited about Seven. Can you tell us anything about this song? Is it a rocker?

A: ITS AN TIMELESS BALLAD WITH A BLOW YOUR FACE OFF CHORUS AND A SUCK YOUR BALL SACK BRIDGE!!!!! (Brain Mantia, Appetite for Discussion, Aug. 18, 2010)

[wasted]

Quick Song ('05), Zodiac ('05)

These two from 2005. When did Fortus join?

Seven and Zodiac are intriguing titles.

someone posted about how the record could be called "7", maybe with 7 tracks. That would be cute.

[Amir]

Fortus joined 2001.

[AndreCC]

Why does everything Axl do has to have orchestral arrangements, piano or synths?... Can't he just do a song without all that shit... just 1!

Edited September 4, 2013 by AndreCC

[phaeryen]

Why does everything Axl do has to have orchestral arrangements, piano or synths?... Can't he just do a song without all that shit... just 1!

the "put in everything and make a grand music video on top of it" approach gave him the best results of his career, the epic music video of November Rain, I can't fault the man for trying to recreate the magic.

He started from the wrong angle though, as he was so deep into soundcrafting and studio wizardry, he forgot that at the end of it all the song needs to be great at the simplest level: simple piano arrangement and vocals. or simple guitar chords.

If you can make it sound and feel good like that, it can carry the weight of an orchestra and a 7 piece backing band, drum computers, samples and synths.

with CD, Axl just fouled himself by trying to be Trent Reznor with his computers or whatever.

it didn't work.

[wasted]

I think it did work, for what it was, a late 90s round up of the 90s in a GNR way.

It's just GNR are one of those bands that made "real" music. What I was thinking when listening to Death Magnetic was here's a real band, it's all about the music. Then it dawned on me, Axl doesn't really have a band, so on CD it's really all about Axl's vocals. He needs a drum loop and some piano, strings and a guitar solo to express himself as an artist through his vocals. Whereas Metallica are just a working band, the guitar parts are so heavy. They were pretty much having a blast going through Metallica by numbers.

But Axl was into to this mad tapestry of parts, effects, sounds that he wanted. This part from here, this part from there. So yeah like Trent but Trent has the core NIN sound to guide him. Axl was winging it, trying to make it sound like GNR and at the same time trying all these weird combos of 70s rock meets Korn etc. Every song is one AND another thing.

But he has no choice, because Bucket and Finck weren't a tight band. The strength was in Axl's vocals and lyrics and this new beats and solos style.

But what people want is that real band thing, 4 x 4 rock n roll. But Axl is an artist he's trying to express himself the best way he can through the music, whereas Metallica are just blasting out what feels great, the music is way better than what they express. It just sounds badass.

Edited September 4, 2013 by wasted

[wasted]

Fortus joined 2001.

I'm just trying to guess which songs could be Fortus. by 2005 could he have these two songs, written and recorded with Axl. Or is there more info. maybe something from 2002.

[luciusfunk]

Beltrami said he did 4 tracks. On CD SOD, TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute have his credits.

Madagascar samples Seven.

Thyme and Time.

My guess he worked on these songs under working titles.

Or theres other more orchestral versions he worked on that coukd be on the remix album.

Also have suspicions Atlas is Catcher. Glam rock Nov Rain. Kind of. They are never mentioned together. Early on atlas was named with other CD songs but catcher. Ron added solos to catcher and atlas.

Prob wrong.

Axl may gave us the CD II traclisting there.

Atlas Shrugged isn't Catcher in the Rye. Bumblefoot mentioned playing on the song and it not being included on the album because of time restraints on the disc.

i know what he said. I just dont know how to take what he says.

You don't know how to take what Bumblefoot said? He played on Atlas Shrugged and wanted it to be on the release. Chinese Democracy ended up being too long with the song added. Pretty simple.