If NuGNR Were Allowed to Play at the HoF, How Will Fans React in the End?

[smoke]

I don't think so. The name's tarnished depending on your viewpoint. It would have shown some balls for Axl to get up there and own it with all three incarnations. Again, not saying "equal time" but use it as a chance to melt people's faces off with a ridiculous TWAT or take the easy way out and just play CD. Do something creative ferchrissakes, you're an artist- segue a "new" song into a classic and have Slash walk on stage as one song is fading out and noodling his way into Sweet Child.

Could have been a real celebration for everyone involved. But we're all way too jaded to try anything like that - how often do we see fans talking about the "brand"? WTF? I can't imagine anything more boner killing when it comes to music, trying to see things from the brand perspective as a fan on the outside.

Because Gilby was never on an original album. Makes sense to me.

So? He did most of the UYI tour and was on "TSI?", Live Era, and Greatest Hits plus the Tokyo DVDs. Poor Gilby
I don't want to give the wrong impression, I feel bad for him. They should have inducted him. Fuck I don't care if Dizzy is on UYI, Gilby is as or more deserving. But I can at least understand the reasoning.

I'd still like to know for sure who made the call on inductions. Was it Slash and Duff or did they just roll with Jann.

The band can make the call on the inductions? If they did, and they didn't put Gilby, yet had the courage to invite him to play with them... That'd be ridiculous of them.

I honestly don't know. I though Metallica pushed for Rob to be in. Same for RHCP. But I don't know where the band's decision stops and the HOF's begins. Blondie performed with the new band but inducted the old one. How did that work? How did Alice Cooper get the original guys out there?

[jmapelian]

"Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

While the album itself may not have been as big as it could have been, the Chinese democracy era was a huge part of rock folklore, and will always be a huge part of GnR's legacy. I think Tommy Stinson deserved to be inducted, since he was the constant in the band for that entire debacle and has put more time into the band than Duff, Slash or Izzy did.

The CD era folks will be eligible in 2033; or the year I'll turn 60 and social security goes bankrupt

[Chunder Monkey]

I think it's about the percentages of relevance a current line up has to the music that it's inducted for.

Say metallica was inducted for Master of Puppets.

That's got James, Lars, Kirk and Cliff.

So if you induct modern Metallica line up then 75% of guys induced played on the album.

Say metallica was inducted for Black Album. James, Lars, Kirck and Jason.

You induct modern Metallica then again 75% of guys inducted play on the album.

But flip that over to GNR.

If GNR is inducted for AFD and then you induct the new-GNR linue up : only 12.5% of guys from new GNR play on AFD.

If it's for UYI, then you raise the level to 25% of people inducted from new-gnr having been the people to play on the records.

That's the difference.

In metallica's case inducting the modern line up gives you 75% of the reason they're in the hall, and inducting modern GNR gives you 25% or under.

Axl has the contract saying the current line up is GNR, but if we're taking history and why bands are famous, it's just a piece of paper.

I guess for all their own faults, the hall just didn't want to have a ceremony where only 12.5 of people receiving an award deserved it.

[smoke]

Hey Monkey, good to see you.

That may be the case, but we have as much hope of knowing the truth as we do of getting the algorithms the credit card bureaus to determine our credit scores in the end.

And I give the Hall way less credit than that. It's not about who deserves it, it's about who puts asses in chairs (...in front of TVs). Can't blame them on that , really.

Edited October 3, 2013 by smoke

[Chunder Monkey]

Hey Monkey, good to see you.

That may be the case, but we have as much hope of knowing the truth as we do of getting the algorithms the credit card bureaus to determine our credit scores in the end.

And I give the Hall way less credit than that. It's not about who deserves it, it's about who puts asses in chairs (...in front of TVs). Can't blame them on that , really.

Hey! Good to see you too!

Anyway...I agree the hall is suspect...but on any test doing what they did is logical to me.

I don't mean to be shitting on the current band as I like them as well, I'm just saying the Hall nomination is about what was achieved in the past - it's about fame and what made the group famous. And that's AFD/UYI.

It just doesn't make sense to induct 6 extra people who had nothing to do with either of those albums.

If it's about bums on seats, then sure, the potential reunion would also probably outsell a new-gnr show, but that's the same point to me. The show is about the history of the band and the classic albums.

I like the new band and I like chinese, but this just wasn't the moment for them.

The hall has a LOT of issues anyway, but I really think it would be embarrassing if they induct the modern line up for their work on AFD!

[Graeme]

Hey Monkey, good to see you.

That may be the case, but we have as much hope of knowing the truth as we do of getting the algorithms the credit card bureaus to determine our credit scores in the end.

And I give the Hall way less credit than that. It's not about who deserves it, it's about who puts asses in chairs (...in front of TVs). Can't blame them on that , really.

I can, and I very much do.

[smoke]

Hey Monkey, good to see you.

That may be the case, but we have as much hope of knowing the truth as we do of getting the algorithms the credit card bureaus to determine our credit scores in the end.

And I give the Hall way less credit than that. It's not about who deserves it, it's about who puts asses in chairs (...in front of TVs). Can't blame them on that , really.

Hey! Good to see you too!

Anyway...I agree the hall is suspect...but on any test doing what they did is logical to me.

I don't mean to be shitting on the current band as I like them as well, I'm just saying the Hall nomination is about what was achieved in the past - it's about fame and what made the group famous. And that's AFD/UYI.

It just doesn't make sense to induct 6 extra people who had nothing to do with either of those albums.

If it's about bums on seats, then sure, the potential reunion would also probably outsell a new-gnr show, but that's the same point to me. The show is about the history of the band and the classic albums.

I like the new band and I like chinese, but this just wasn't the moment for them.

The hall has a LOT of issues anyway, but I really think it would be embarrassing if they induct the modern line up for their work on AFD!

I just don't think they needed to induct everybody to pay respect to what Axl might have wanted: GNR then and now. "Then" gets in, "Now" gets noticed.

[The Real McCoy]

Robert Trujillo got inducted with Metallica, that set a precedent. They should have done everything or nothing as far as I'm concerned.

This.

And yes, Gilby should have been inducted.

It was nice of Billie Joe to give him a shout-out during his speech, though.

[Chunder Monkey]

I just don't think they needed to induct everybody to pay respect to what Axl might have wanted: GNR then and now. "Then" gets in, "Now" gets noticed.

That would be nice. But that's the kind of thing that can only really happen if Axl and Slash are friends I think.

Like otherwise what happens....old GNR plays a set with myles...while Axl looks on....(audience is mad) then...Slash goes off stage and DJ does patience with Axl..while slash watches from the side of the stage (audience is mad).

The ONLY way they could do that kind of stuff is if they were friends and endorse the replacements.

Like if Axl n Slash hugged and did a few songs. Then Axl was like "I love that myles lets slash continue with the rock stuff I was sick off" and out comes myles for Anastasia...and then Slash was like "It's cool that Bumblefoot lets you do more experimental NIN stuff that I'm not into" and then on comes new-gnr and they bust out like Riad or something....even then the audience may be like WTF...but at least there's a chance of it.

But with the status quo - Axl and Slash don't talk - it seems really fictional to me that you could have the new band there in any capacity and it not become (more of) a farce.

[smoke]

I just don't think they needed to induct everybody to pay respect to what Axl might have wanted: GNR then and now. "Then" gets in, "Now" gets noticed.

That would be nice. But that's the kind of thing that can only really happen if Axl and Slash are friends I think.

Like otherwise what happens....old GNR plays a set with myles...while Axl looks on....(audience is mad) then...Slash goes off stage and DJ does patience with Axl..while slash watches from the side of the stage (audience is mad).

The ONLY way they could do that kind of stuff is if they were friends and endorse the replacements.

Like if Axl n Slash hugged and did a few songs. Then Axl was like "I love that myles lets slash continue with the rock stuff I was sick off" and out comes myles for Anastasia...and then Slash was like "It's cool that Bumblefoot lets you do more experimental NIN stuff that I'm not into" and then on comes new-gnr and they bust out like Riad or something....even then the audience may be like WTF...but at least there's a chance of it.

But with the status quo - Axl and Slash don't talk - it seems really fictional to me that you could have the new band there in any capacity and it not become (more of) a farce.

No. Myles get kicked in the nuts by a midget just before he sings his first note. Everything else goes as described.

Hey Monkey, good to see you.

That may be the case, but we have as much hope of knowing the truth as we do of getting the algorithms the credit card bureaus to determine our credit scores in the end.

And I give the Hall way less credit than that. It's not about who deserves it, it's about who puts asses in chairs (...in front of TVs). Can't blame them on that , really.

I can, and I very much do.

Why? It's their crappy party. It's not an institution born out of a love for rnr, it's born out of $: subscriptions, tickets, and advertising. If more ppl just ignored them, they'd die on the vine. But they're just doing what they crawled out of the sea to do.

Edited October 4, 2013 by smoke

[wasted]

To me it was about the HOF agenda. To push for areunion show. Thats fair enough, its their award show.

But its also fair that Axl didnt go because its not how he sees GNR.

They ignored the human aspect and went for the dollars. Thats alright.

[Chunder Monkey]

No. Myles get kicked in the nuts by a midget just before he sings his first note. Everything else goes as described.

Pretty sure that's what went on during the Apocalyptic Love recording sessions. Also I'm pretty sure the middle of TWAT was recorded with the aid of a car-battery and some wet electrodes.

To me it was about the HOF agenda. To push for areunion show. Thats fair enough, its their award show.

But its also fair that Axl didnt go because its not how he sees GNR.

They ignored the human aspect and went for the dollars. Thats alright.

I sort of see it the other way around.

The human aspect to me would be for Axl to acknowledge that he achieved great things with the old line up, and to celebrate with them for ONE NIGHT despite it being against the business and economic interests of promoting the current line up as GNR.

To say that wanting to give awards to the guys who played on AFD and UYI for the fact that AFD and UYI changed history is a cash grab is odd to me.

How can the hall induct the modern line up? On the basis of what? Chinese Democracy? An album that's been out for only 5 years and on which at least one of them didn't actually play? It just doesn't make sense.

I like the new band but this was just not their night.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Chunder Monkey

[jayster138]

to me it all depends....on one hand it would be a win win for people involved....Axl gets to showcase new guns n roses....Axl and Slash share the same stage and are finally in the same room together after so many years apart....if they did where Old band with Axl do like 2 songs, then new guns play like 2 songs, then all play PC then it would have been cool and i wouldnt have a problem with that, and the rock hall would have gotten their reunion out of it...however this is all riding on one little detail...

does Izzy friggin show up?? like people said Izzy made up his mind pretty much the day it was announced...but i feel if Axl went Izzy would have gone too. worse case....Slash and Axl share the stage during the induction...new guns does like 2 songs, Slash, Duff, Matt, Steven, Gilby with Myles on vocals do like 2 songs, then Axl and Izzy close it out via doing dont cry or patience acoustically with Axl on Piano and Izzy on acoustic guitar...bring it back to where it began with Axl and Izzy...

Edited October 4, 2013 by jayster138

[classicguns4life]

to me it all depends....on one hand it would be a win win for people involved....Axl gets to showcase new guns n roses....Axl and Slash share the same stage and are finally in the same room together after so many years apart....if they did where Old band with Axl do like 2 songs, then new guns play like 2 songs, then all play PC then it would have been cool and i wouldnt have a problem with that, and the rock hall would have gotten their reunion out of it...however this is all riding on one little detail...

does Izzy friggin show up?? like people said Izzy made up his mind pretty much the day it was announced...but i feel if Axl went Izzy would have gone too. worse case....Slash and Axl share the stage during the induction...new guns does like 2 songs, Slash, Duff, Matt, Steven, Gilby with Myles on vocals do like 2 songs, then Axl and Izzy close it out via doing dont cry or patience acoustically with Axl on Piano and Izzy on acoustic guitar...bring it back to where it began with Axl and Izzy...

You're dwelling on something thats not even a factor. Izzy said at one point he would have gone if Axl did and he wasn't going to be the one standing in the way of a reunion. And if Axl wasn't going, then Izzy just didn't feel like getting up for it. His not being there had nothing to do with him being angry or not caring about the honor. Its just not his thing and if it wasn't gonna be everyone he wouldn't have been ruining anything.

Also, with the people talking about GNR playing 2 old, 2 new then Paradise City, clearly you have never seen these Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame Ceremonies. Band don't get 5 songs to perform. They usually get 2, 3 at most. So as usual, many of you are thinking very illogically as if this was gonna turn into some GNR show. They were going to get the same honor time as everyone else and that meant playing 2 or 3 songs then moving on to the next band.

[wasted]

No. Myles get kicked in the nuts by a midget just before he sings his first note. Everything else goes as described.

Pretty sure that's what went on during the Apocalyptic Love recording sessions. Also I'm pretty sure the middle of TWAT was recorded with the aid of a car-battery and some wet electrodes.

To me it was about the HOF agenda. To push for areunion show. Thats fair enough, its their award show.

But its also fair that Axl didnt go because its not how he sees GNR.

They ignored the human aspect and went for the dollars. Thats alright.

I sort of see it the other way around.

The human aspect to me would be for Axl to acknowledge that he achieved great things with the old line up, and to celebrate with them for ONE NIGHT despite it being against the business and economic interests of promoting the current line up as GNR.

To say that wanting to give awards to the guys who played on AFD and UYI for the fact that AFD and UYI changed history is a cash grab is odd to me.

How can the hall induct the modern line up? On the basis of what? Chinese Democracy? An album that's been out for only 5 years and on which at least one of them didn't actually play? It just doesn't make sense.

I like the new band but this was just not their night.

There was a way to do both. Honor the AFD, then have new Guns play. Win win. But the Hof agenda of a reunion show offered no space for that.

But they asked Axl to say GNR now aint as important and play with old guys even when it would harm his position.

Then when axl agreed not to show everyone showed their true colors. Slash was glad, Adler angry, Duff hurt, Matt amused, Izzy relieved.

[Bobbo]

No. Myles get kicked in the nuts by a midget just before he sings his first note. Everything else goes as described.

Pretty sure that's what went on during the Apocalyptic Love recording sessions. Also I'm pretty sure the middle of TWAT was recorded with the aid of a car-battery and some wet electrodes.

To me it was about the HOF agenda. To push for areunion show. Thats fair enough, its their award show.

But its also fair that Axl didnt go because its not how he sees GNR.

They ignored the human aspect and went for the dollars. Thats alright.

I sort of see it the other way around.

The human aspect to me would be for Axl to acknowledge that he achieved great things with the old line up, and to celebrate with them for ONE NIGHT despite it being against the business and economic interests of promoting the current line up as GNR.

To say that wanting to give awards to the guys who played on AFD and UYI for the fact that AFD and UYI changed history is a cash grab is odd to me.

How can the hall induct the modern line up? On the basis of what? Chinese Democracy? An album that's been out for only 5 years and on which at least one of them didn't actually play? It just doesn't make sense.

I like the new band but this was just not their night.

There was a way to do both. Honor the AFD, then have new Guns play. Win win. But the Hof agenda of a reunion show offered no space for that.

But they asked Axl to say GNR now aint as important and play with old guys even when it would harm his position.

Then when axl agreed not to show everyone showed their true colors. Slash was glad, Adler angry, Duff hurt, Matt amused, Izzy relieved.

No offense, but are you nuts? There was no way they were gonna have the nu band play, while the actual methods (and the people actually getting inducted) to the madness just sat in the audience and watched. That would've been awful, and would have tarnished both Axl's and the gnr name further down under.

If that was actually Axl's proposal, I'm glad the hof laughed him out the door. The gp stopped pretending the naked emperor had clothes a long time ago. It's time Axl woke up and accepted it as well.

[Bobbo]

Look, the big elephant in the room is this. 90% of people don't look at what Axls doing as Gnr. It's just Axl and a bunch of whoevers playing gnr songs to them. A decent parody.

Axl failed at every turn to try to turn "gnr" legit post '96. The hof shouldn't be blamed for addressing that.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Bobbo

[wfuckinga]

No matter what happened, people would bitch.

You're always going to have the "Hurr durr Ashba isn't GNR why did he play at the HOF" people and you're always going to have the "$la$h isn't in GN'R why did he go onstage" people. The HOF is bullshit. What Axl is doing IS Guns N' Roses, people need to learn that things, and people, change. They need to accept the fact Dj Ashba is the lead guitarist, not $lash. They also need to recognise that Chinese Democracy IS a Guns N' Roses album. The HOF didn't want to accept that, and you see what it got them: a fake GN'R with Myles Kennedy singing.

[ChristmasFnatic]

Look, the big elephant in the room is this. 90% of people don't look at what Axls doing as Gnr. It's just Axl and a bunch of whoevers playing gnr songs to them. A decent parody.

Axl failed at every turn to try to turn "gnr" legit post '96. The hof shouldn't be blamed for addressing that.

Who is the elephant?

[magisme]

90% of people don't look at what Axls doing as Gnr.

Way too generous. There are more people who are unaware Nu exists (significantly more) than who think Nu is really GNR.

[Guest NGOG]

Some say its cuz Axl wanted NuGNR to play...

That's mere speculatuon though. Nobody with any cred came out and explicitly said that Axl ducked the ceremony because modern day GNR weren't permitted to play. It's more likely he was aghast they weren't allowed to be present.

[luciusfunk]

If Josh Klinghoffer gets inducted as part of Red Hot Chili Peppers, I see no reason anyone who joined 1994-2009 shouldn't be inducted.

[wasted]

No. Myles get kicked in the nuts by a midget just before he sings his first note. Everything else goes as described.

Pretty sure that's what went on during the Apocalyptic Love recording sessions. Also I'm pretty sure the middle of TWAT was recorded with the aid of a car-battery and some wet electrodes.

To me it was about the HOF agenda. To push for areunion show. Thats fair enough, its their award show.

But its also fair that Axl didnt go because its not how he sees GNR.

They ignored the human aspect and went for the dollars. Thats alright.

I sort of see it the other way around.

The human aspect to me would be for Axl to acknowledge that he achieved great things with the old line up, and to celebrate with them for ONE NIGHT despite it being against the business and economic interests of promoting the current line up as GNR.

To say that wanting to give awards to the guys who played on AFD and UYI for the fact that AFD and UYI changed history is a cash grab is odd to me.

How can the hall induct the modern line up? On the basis of what? Chinese Democracy? An album that's been out for only 5 years and on which at least one of them didn't actually play? It just doesn't make sense.

I like the new band but this was just not their night.

There was a way to do both. Honor the AFD, then have new Guns play. Win win. But the Hof agenda of a reunion show offered no space for that.

But they asked Axl to say GNR now aint as important and play with old guys even when it would harm his position.

Then when axl agreed not to show everyone showed their true colors. Slash was glad, Adler angry, Duff hurt, Matt amused, Izzy relieved.

No offense, but are you nuts? There was no way they were gonna have the nu band play, while the actual methods (and the people actually getting inducted) to the madness just sat in the audience and watched. That would've been awful, and would have tarnished both Axl's and the gnr name further down under.

If that was actually Axl's proposal, I'm glad the hof laughed him out the door. The gp stopped pretending the naked emperor had clothes a long time ago. It's time Axl woke up and accepted it as well.

that would be that human aspect I was talking about. Why cant they both play. Even mix up the line ups? a celebration of GNR with Axl Rose on stage with GNR.

Why is it so important to destroy Axl. You have call him an asshole and call him to heel before its GNR.

All they did was focus on the bitterness.

probably because it suits everyone. I guess would be dangerous bcos some peoples reps are built on the "real" gnr.

Its really the final lesson of the change/drones school.

[volcano62]

The most GNR thing Duff and the old guys could have done is boycott this bitch with Axl and Izzy.

[wasted]

Its too easy to stand by while Axl gets thrown under the bus. If asked they seem like good guys but actions speak louder than words is the platitude that fits.

What they were saying is we have the right to call this GNR because Axl stole the name and destroyed the band. If they wanted to bury the hachet that was as good a time as any.