Was ChiDem a "success" in the same way as Star Wars Ep.1?

[RichardNixon]

People still talk about Episode 1. No one but us talks about CD. Episode 1 > CD.

Oh, they do. Chinese Democracy is a mark on the music industry. Remember that ESPN article a couple of months ago? It changed the industry forever. It showed art is bad for the business. It is what allowed albums like Random Access Memories by Daft Punk to have a place. But, as the article said, the difference is that, although Random Access Memories is more sucesful, it won't be rememberd for decades to come, like Chinese Democracy. Like ir or not.

The only thing cd will be remembered for is its jokes aspects. That's it. All that time, money, and energy for so little in return.

If that's what you consider a victory, then congrats .

The ESPN article was interesting but was purely conjecture and speculation. There is no way to know what impact Chinese Democracy had on the music industry. I doubt that Random Access Memories would have sold any more or less copies had Chinese Democracy not been released.

As for Chinese Democracy being remembered as a "joke"--that's entirely up to one's perception. I think that it's a great album and I'm sure that people will discover and enjoy it in the years to come and others will continue to bitch on the internet.

Edited October 16, 2013 by RichardNixon

[Bobbo]

I'm talking overall the general consensus. Not a person by person perspective, which would probably paint a negative depiction of cd anyways.

The only emphasis cd has, and more than likely will have years and years from now is its joke aspects, not it's actually merits.

Get lucky is huge right now. And I'm sure it will be remembered longer than anything ACTUALLY off cd will.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Bobbo

[wasted]

That article was saying CD led the way in albums taking longer. its more common these days. But it pointed out CD also showed what to avoid. Mainly letting the back story become more impirtant than the music. Not really sure about observation because CD had a lot more issues than just theres no rush these days.

[Facekicker]

Oh the delusions the delusions!

If Axl spread his shit on a cracker and gave it to some of you guys to eat all we would hear about is how amazing the cracker was.

[pe_teko]

Everybody has seen Star Wars Ep.1

People thinks Axl died in the 90s and he probably did.

That should answer your question.

[eggers]

Threads seem to get stupider by the day here. We must be REALLY bored.

[J Dog]

I don't know how it ranks when compared to Phantom Menace, that's funny, but that fact that it was even released was a success.

Edited October 16, 2013 by J Dog

[volcano62]

New music will stop all these retarded threads.

[phaeryen]

Can anyone point me towards any cool backstory article on Lucas/star wars, because otherwise I don't fully get it. I only watched the movies. didn't like them much . . .

[wasted]

Fuck you ice cube.

[rockerman]

The thing about Phantom Menace was that it took 20 + years of an epic story only hinted at , a story that so richly melted mythology with story telling that let people wonder and invent what they needed from the story. In 1977 when the ability to make the story DID not rely on computer generated graffics the story had to rely on the imagination and the emotional relationship to the audience. Star Wars captured the imagination across the board with its visuals, clunky storytelling and its imperfect dialogue...

Guns and Roses 87 didnt rely on 3 guitarist, 2 keyboardist and huge light shows or computer generated filters to press thier point. Simple as it was -Less was better to that era. The story of the band, its struggles, its message and its music took rock and roll legend and made it real and relevant to the world again. You had no doubt that those guys were into what they were saying and playing and it invited the audience to come along for the rocket ride.

GnR2000 + fell back on a barage of noise, ear candy and pro tools editing to fill up what evidently Axl felt was the missing spaces.It stripped teh peronality of he brand down to just Axl and his back up boys. No spotlight focused on the members, thier story or thier contributions were emphasised (enough)

Chinese Democracy didnt sell just because it brought avante Garde well crafted music to the scene -it sold because it was the Guns and Roses brand. I bought it because it was after all GNR. People have asked me if it wasnt Axl or if it wasnt associated with GNR would CD have had a bigger impact than it did? yes and no in my opinion- none of the songs really had thunder and lightning hit potential in them. For me the whole point of a really good song is not the noise parading as music...its the drive, deliverance and execution of song with the lyrics. The melding/fusion of the vocals/lyrics to the music. In CD its as if Axl had a huge amounto of music and then he came along after and either wrote the lyrics or layed already written lyrics on top of. To me, many of the songs sound dialed in. They come across as totally inauthentinct.

Phantom Menace pandered to the younger generation, sold out the rich storytelling in order to get the eye candy ADD adled minds to remotely relate. The story moved along fast and furious and changed up so much of the rumoured story( miracle birth by midichloriens?) added completely unnessessary characters (Jar Jar) and then slaughtered potential great villians before we ever got to react to them....(Was i the only one hoping that Anikin would get shot right between the eyes by a stray shot? )

It justified the cost to make it in the first few weekends of its release...because it was the "brand" it was "Star Wars" and yet it sucked. It sucked big time. The whole mythology of Star Wars became a bloated empty story drowning out the simplicity in favor for the bloat of modern technology. Toward the end I didnt give a shit about any of the characters or the story. It was just another story more or less. To the younger generation it was marvelous and the old Star Wars movies became boring and slow and blah because they were not being blasted with visuals after visuals to motivate them to engage. CD is much the same way especially to a generation of music listeners who have 5000 songs at at push of a button, video game expectations and minds attuned to just strip things down with less content and less the emphasis on context.

Chinese Democracy did exactly the same thing. It took a simple storyline/ concept of a real and authentic rock and roll band with great lyrics and inspired music and filled it up with sounds to make up for what Axl couldnt say in words or deeds.

CD was very similar in comparison to the Star Wars prequels..totally took the whole legend and watered it down, paid little heed to the bigger picture of what made the brand work in the first place and attempeted to force shoddy craftsmanship to the audience with distracting sounds, stories, and visuals. The hopes of this board are reliant on GNR getting back to its productive potential that it had in the late 80's and 90's . One could have hoped , like i certainly did that the long delay was just fodder for a greater creative ability and Axl much like George Lucas seemed to utterly lose focus on thier brand in the ensuing years.

[Apollo]

New music will stop all these retarded threads.

Or Mods locking them.

I'm amazed by the crap they let go on in here and amazed by the stuff they lock or delete.

[DieselDaisy]

TWAT/Better: the Darth Maul fight scene

The rest of CD: Jar Jar Binks going 'meesa gonna diiiieee''.

[luciusfunk]

People still talk about Episode 1. No one but us talks about CD. Episode 1 > CD.

Who talks about TPM? Is there anyone out there over the age of 10 who actually thinks that was a good film?

Hello

[magisme]

People still talk about Episode 1. No one but us talks about CD. Episode 1 > CD.

Who talks about TPM? Is there anyone out there over the age of 10 who actually thinks that was a good film?

I didn't make any claims about it being good. I said people talk about it. For example, this thread. What do you think the chances are that a Star Wars forum would have a thread titled, "Was Episode 1 a 'success' the same way as Chinese Democracy"? I'll answer that for you. Not a fuckin' chance in hell. The cultural impact of Episode 1, while negligible in the grand scheme of things, was far greater than that of CD. It's not even debatable.

[trqster]

Yeah...AFD & UYI albums were just for starters, Axl's ban...err....Gn'R only really got huge when CD was put out. Rock on!

[SoulMonster]

The numbers are clear: a huge number of people listened to Chinese Democracy on myspace and a lot of people bought the album.

It's also true that a huge number of people went and saw The Phantom Menace. And it's pretty well-agreed that it's a colossally shitty movie, even though it made such a huge amount of money.

Is it possible that Chinese Democracy and The Phantom Menace share a lot of similarities? They both were made by control-freaks who surrounded themselves with yes-men, had access to almost-unlimited budgets, and they did incredible things in the past.

Or, maybe some people here are right: ChiDem is the greatest album ever, and it's a huge success, and it was held back because people aren't "smart enough to get it."

This is an example of a false dilemma.

[HubbaBubba]

The numbers are clear: a huge number of people listened to Chinese Democracy on myspace and a lot of people bought the album.

It's also true that a huge number of people went and saw The Phantom Menace. And it's pretty well-agreed that it's a colossally shitty movie, even though it made such a huge amount of money.

Is it possible that Chinese Democracy and The Phantom Menace share a lot of similarities? They both were made by control-freaks who surrounded themselves with yes-men, had access to almost-unlimited budgets, and they did incredible things in the past.

Or, maybe some people here are right: ChiDem is the greatest album ever, and it's a huge success, and it was held back because people aren't "smart enough to get it."

This is an example of a false dilemma.

Where's the dilemma?

[wasted]

If you believe first impressions, Exile on Main Street is a terrible record etc. and so on.

I would say both Phantom and CD aren't as bad as people say, just didn't meet the expectations of being as good as the debut or hype. Suddenly everyone's a critic, irony intended.

[SoulMonster]

The numbers are clear: a huge number of people listened to Chinese Democracy on myspace and a lot of people bought the album.

It's also true that a huge number of people went and saw The Phantom Menace. And it's pretty well-agreed that it's a colossally shitty movie, even though it made such a huge amount of money.

Is it possible that Chinese Democracy and The Phantom Menace share a lot of similarities? They both were made by control-freaks who surrounded themselves with yes-men, had access to almost-unlimited budgets, and they did incredible things in the past.

Or, maybe some people here are right: ChiDem is the greatest album ever, and it's a huge success, and it was held back because people aren't "smart enough to get it."

This is an example of a false dilemma.

Where's the dilemma?

Two somewhat extreme and opposite positions are presented ("CD sharing a lot of similarities with EP1, both being colossally shitty" and "CD being the greatest album ever") without any thoughts to the large middle ground.

Edited October 17, 2013 by SoulMonster

[GN'R Lies]

UYI was like Ep1. Both were commercial successes, bloated and lacked their predecessors authenticity.

I don't know what to compare CD too but it would have to be in a galaxy a lot further away.

[CoolRanchDressing]

Get lucky was destined to be a hit because its catchy and fun. CD was not because it was the opposite.

[Flayer]

There was no Jar-Jar on CD.

[Bobbo]

^If the world begs to differ

[John Bonham]

There was no Jar-Jar on CD.

Bumblefoot = Jar Jar Binks