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Gene Simmons says Ace and Peter will not perform with them at the Rock Hall Of Fame


classicguns4life

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in '70s America you were either an 'Aerosmith man' or a 'Kiss man'

Sounds like a horribly shit time. I'dve been an Eagles man.

If you grew up in the 1970s, I assume you would have just spent your time in a similar manner to how you spend your time these days: telling everyone how much their musical tastes 'sucks'.

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From my understanding, in '70s America you were either an 'Aerosmith man' or a 'Kiss man' and the two groups of fans hated each other with a passion. Aerosmith were more blue-collared and grungy. Kiss were obviously more, comic book and commercial. Kiss were probably ‘slightly’ bigger than ‘Smith which in a way helped Aerosmith the more because, for the Toxic Twins and their legions of supporters, it was seen as over-turning a 'great evil' (like the Spice Girls) in fighting Kiss. Interestingly, both bands toured together (this may have been ‘75ish) and they got on well enough - Joe Perry of course would play on Gene's solo album - but their road crews hated each other.

In a way, the Aerosmith-Kiss feud affects the entire generation of American rock artists of the 80s and early 90s. So, Steven Adler was Kiss Army, whereas Slash was Blue Army and they both used to squabble about whose band was the best. I also have an interview with Slash where he said, ''I fuckin hate Kiss''. Guns N' Roses were definitely more an 'Aerosmith' band as both Stradlin and Hudson cite Rocks as one of their favourite all time albums. I have a suspicion that Duff, for although he is a punk rocker, would have leant more towards the blue army also if he was forced to choose. Not sure about Axl who seemed lost in his own world of Queen, Elton and Lynott?

Hetfield I know was 'Aerosmith' and I remember hearing him talk about how he hated Kiss when he was a teen. But then Kiss had their fans also, including just about every '80s Glam band and quite a few of the Bay Area Thrash bands also. Frehley in particular has to be signalled out here. Ace Frehley influenced a whole generation of American rock and metal guitarists. So no Kiss: no Skid Row, VH, Crue, Wasp, Pantera, Marilyn Manson. Probably no Megadeth or Anthrax either. And also no, ehh, Steven Adler of Guns N' Roses.

I think Slash eventually disliked KISS like most kids did when Phantom of the Park came out and they were catering to kids. People just outgrew them. Aerosmith were seen as a band of derelicts.

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I don't really recall a specific Kiss-Aerosmith feud.

There were a gazillion rivalry feuds then, Zep-Stones, Queen - Bowie, Rush-Van Halen...it was endless.

It was more one group of fans against another.

I remember walking in a beer store one Saturday with a bunch of friends, and a group of guys in another car with Zep shirts wanted to fight. Reason being?...I was wearing a Stones '78 tour shirt.

I found the whole thing laughable because, well, I love both bands.

But as far as Kiss Aerosmith goes, anyone I knew who was into KISS were into Aerosmith as well.

People I knew who hated KISS did so because they just didn't like them, not out of loyalty to any other band.

Keep in mind too that around the time of Alive, a KISS concert was a pretty rowdy affair attended by fans in the mid teens to early 20's range.

Two years later when I saw them on the Love Gun tour, it was a lot of 12 year olds accompanied by a parent up to about late teens (at a stretch).

The thing is, around the time KISS was going through the roof with Destroyer, people were starting to bail on Aerosmith based on Draw The Line. I didn't know anybody who liked that album.And yeah, Phantom of the Paradise sealed KISS's fate as a kid's band, people left in droves. People were bailing in droves on Aerosmith as well by that time, it wasn't a period of their best material, and the excess was taking a toll.

Both bands were still drawing pretty good numbers in concert though, and both were flailing in attendance numbers by the time the new decade rolled around.

I'll tell you this though, I attended the first KISS reunion show at Tiger Stadium in Detroit in '96 and the place was jam packed with wild motherfuckers that you wouldn't want to fight.

Guys that I can assure you were attending Aerosmith concerts in the 70's.

It was an extremely intense show from an audience perspective.

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Of the original albums, I must admit I don't really like Destroyer that much-in fact its my least favourite until after Dynasty.

Surprised by that. I guess I can see how some didn't like how they branched out a bit, but most of that album is stellar. King Of The Night Time World, the title track which is classic KISS when you ignore how overplayed it is, God Of Thunder is a classic, Flaming Youth, Do You Love Me? Thats already more songs than I like on Dynasty (and one of the songs I like on Dynasty is a cover so...). I'm also a fan of Sweet Pain, Should It Out Loud and Great Expectations, but I can see those being divided. Thats a killer album though.

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Detroit Rock City, King Of The Night Time World and Sweet Pain are great of course, and Beth, God Of Thunder and Do You Love Me are obligatory- I just find it lacks the balls of the others.

Dynasty seems to get a bad rap cause of the "disco" I was made for...its actually pretty driving hard rock.

I think each member brought their A game on Dynasty, Dirty Livin from Peter, Magic Touch from Paul, Hard Times/Save Your Love from Ace, Charisma and X Ray Eyes from Gene...I even like "sure knows something" which gets a lot of shit.

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I agree Dynasty is a pretty good album, but it doesn't hold a candle to any KISS album before it. IMO.

What is your verdict on Unmasked, Dr Doom?

Back to Creatures Of The Night, i enjoyed your review classicguns4life, and agreed with much of it (although i love Rock n' Roll Hell) especially that a lot of the songwriting was poor. It is a firm fan favourite mostly for sentimental reasons - it heralded a new heavy direction which was much welcomed by many KISS fans who were disillusioned with the prior increasingly bubblegum and aimed-at-kids late make-up period. It was a bit shambolic due to the shuffling of different ghost-players on it (i don't know how they expected everyone to think that was Ace Frehley playing with their inclusion of him on the album cover, videos, etc -- the guitars sounded nothing like him) but it had great atmosphere. It was the proper rebirth of KISS after the failure of The Elder. KISS was nearly completely broke by 1983 and were quite desperate... luckily, Lick It Up and Animalize were better executions of what they were trying to do with Creatures and had some hits... this idea of a primal rebirth (the artwork and videos present them dressed as cavemen wearing animal skins, by bonfires etc, and the lyrics also reflect primal themes) of KISS being reborn and reinvented.

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DOOM has a weakness for Unmasked :P

Is That You?, Naked City and Torpedo Girl in particular...it's not the best album, but a bit of a guilty pleasure :awesomeface:

I hear you, dude. i was too young to go see them but Shandi and Talk To Me were top 40 hits in Australia, they were among the first few KISS songs i heard after I Was Made For Loving You and Rock N' Roll All Nite. I had a KISS pencilcase and stickers, though.

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The problem with Destroyer is twofold, timing and over production.

The album came out after Alive. Alive was the album that finally got things moving for Kiss. People finally had a sound they could relate to and a apply to what this band was about.

The underproduction of the first 3 albums was the problem with those, you couldn't drop any of those in front of your friends and say "listen to THIS".

Alive just nailed that that these guys can fucking rock.

When Alive went through the roof, expectation was high for the next album based on what fans new to the band associated with Alive.

Kick ass straight up rock tunes with a slice of Ace Frehley on the side.

With Destroyer what they got was Bob Ezrin overproduction, choirs, strings, ballads. And the lame attempt to get the band to rewrite Rock and Roll All Nite.

All that has obviously stayed with the album over the years, hence the not as favourable comments about it.

I remember when we first heard Shout It Out Loud, it was on a car radio at an outdoor party. I liked it...I looked around at the other people there, they all said the same thing, it was a lame attempt to rewrite R+R All Nite....that plus they just thought it sucked. Many bailed right there.

Another friend of mine, bought the album, hated it, and after several listens he gave it to me. I didn't even have to go out and buy it.

I t wasn't what was expected after Alive.

Lucky for them though that children thought the album cover looked cool. THAT'S what kicked off the "cartoon" era. Gene smelled fresh kiddie blood and their parent's cash and boom, Kiss was now for 12 year olds.

But yeah, there's some good tunes on there, but it's not the post Alive era album of choice for me...I always thought R+R Over and Love Gun were better.

I lasted with original era KISS until the solo albums and completely lost interest.

I didn't find my way back to KISS until I saw the Hot In The Shade tour, it was a great concert (see the London Ontario video bootleg).

After that I bought the rest of the catalogue and stayed with band through to Tommy Thayer putting Ace's make up on.

I eventually found the first album with Thayer on lead in a $5.00 reduced bin at Walmart. I gave it a try cuz the price was right.. to me, it was the worst collection of turds I've ever heard from the band known as Kiss. :shrugs:

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I didn't find my way back to KISS until I saw the Hot In The Shade tour, it was a great concert (see the London Ontario video bootleg).

That was a big entry point for a good number of my generation, Hot In The Shade and Revenge were a good period for them, I wish that lineup had stayed together longer, I even liked a good couple of tunes off Carnival Of Souls even though they were nothing more than polished demos.

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The problem with Destroyer is twofold, timing and over production.

The album came out after Alive. Alive was the album that finally got things moving for Kiss. People finally had a sound they could relate to and a apply to what this band was about.

The underproduction of the first 3 albums was the problem with those, you couldn't drop any of those in front of your friends and say "listen to THIS".

Alive just nailed that that these guys can fucking rock.

When Alive went through the roof, expectation was high for the next album based on what fans new to the band associated with Alive.

Kick ass straight up rock tunes with a slice of Ace Frehley on the side.

With Destroyer what they got was Bob Ezrin overproduction, choirs, strings, ballads. And the lame attempt to get the band to rewrite Rock and Roll All Nite.

All that has obviously stayed with the album over the years, hence the not as favourable comments about it.

I remember when we first heard Shout It Out Loud, it was on a car radio at an outdoor party. I liked it...I looked around at the other people there, they all said the same thing, it was a lame attempt to rewrite R+R All Nite....that plus they just thought it sucked. Many bailed right there.

Another friend of mine, bought the album, hated it, and after several listens he gave it to me. I didn't even have to go out and buy it.

I t wasn't what was expected after Alive.

Lucky for them though that children thought the album cover looked cool. THAT'S what kicked off the "cartoon" era. Gene smelled fresh kiddie blood and their parent's cash and boom, Kiss was now for 12 year olds.

But yeah, there's some good tunes on there, but it's not the post Alive era album of choice for me...I always thought R+R Over and Love Gun were better.

I lasted with original era KISS until the solo albums and completely lost interest.

I didn't find my way back to KISS until I saw the Hot In The Shade tour, it was a great concert (see the London Ontario video bootleg).

After that I bought the rest of the catalogue and stayed with band through to Tommy Thayer putting Ace's make up on.

I eventually found the first album with Thayer on lead in a $5.00 reduced bin at Walmart. I gave it a try cuz the price was right.. to me, it was the worst collection of turds I've ever heard from the band known as Kiss. :shrugs:

Part of KISS' success was the marketing of the band and that's mostly Aucoin's doing and in the book I read, Bogart doing an AM radio hustle with FM radio DJs didn't go over well.

Aerosmith, Van Halen, and KISS all had the approach to tour like maniacs, Rush went along for the ride, but they went to places Led Zeppelin and The Who weren't. It was pretty grass roots but the logistics of the tour dates, amazing they didn't crash the tour bus, but KISS did lose a truck and a crew member that drove one of the trucks.

They should have just stuck with Eddie Kramer in the 70s, they made their best albums with him.

Everyone who's opened for KISS said they were great guys and nothing bad to say about them at that time. They were just young and hungry guys from New York trying to make it after years of trial and error. Ace was the only one who didn't really have battle scars (but probably a few knife scars from his "gang" years), and Gene had his career backup plans, but Peter and Paul were both committed to making rock n' roll their life since they were 14-15.

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I didn't find my way back to KISS until I saw the Hot In The Shade tour, it was a great concert (see the London Ontario video bootleg).

That was a big entry point for a good number of my generation, Hot In The Shade and Revenge were a good period for them, I wish that lineup had stayed together longer, I even liked a good couple of tunes off Carnival Of Souls even though they were nothing more than polished demos.
Other than the makeup factor, I'd say I prefer what this line-up has offered me so far thab what the Kullick line-ups have offered me. Not a hige fan of revenge as I think it screams for youth reception and is desperate to sound rebelious, even with us knowing that ship had sailed and was far gone for KISS. But it does have its gems. Still, IMO, Monster and Sonic Boom were the best collection of songs KISS gas released since Creatures and maybe since Love Gun. Edited by Cosmonaut
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ace frehley on gene simmons comments calling ace and peter a cancer:
"I'm happy that I'm gonna be inducted — most likely — next year, in April, in New York City, and it should be a great event. There's no way [KISS bassist/vocalist] Gene [simmons] can put a lid on it. I mean, what's he gonna do?"
"I don't know what's up with Gene. He used to say to me in the '70s, every time I did something stupid, he'd go, 'Ace, you're shooting yourself in the foot again.' Well, he's been shooting himself in the foot for years.

"Gene's living in the past. He's become a caricature of himself. I mean, from the very beginning, his only motivation was money. The guy has no friends; he's not respected by his peers; he's pissed off thousands of fans; he's never had a hit single, like I've had. I had the most successful Gibson signature-series guitar in history. He didn't. It goes on and on. He took the safe route: he never got loaded, he never partied. I took the same route Elvis Presley took and [Jimi] Hendrix and Keith Richards and Jim Morrison… it's endless. I have all this life experience and thank God I can live to talk about it. What's he gonna talk about? All he can do is badmouth other people."

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ace-frehley-slams-gene-simmons-over-cancer-comments-all-he-can-do-is-badmouth-other-people/

Edited by bran
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God I don't know if there's anything Ace can do to make me not like him. I do doubt his positivety that they will definitely go in, and also don't think the "hit" and guitar comments were totally necessary or true (I mean, whether you want to admit it or not, Gene wrote Rock And Roll All Nite which is the only song people will remember, especially more than New York Groove). The drinking and partying comment doesn't help Ace, although I know what he means. Gene is smart, but I think what Ace is saying is basically the guy never lightened up and relaxed. Otherwise, Ace's points were completely on par and I'm glad he's got the balls to say this stuff.

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