1999: The Thread - "Not working on all of this to keep it buried"

[Gagarin]

Except nobody in the press or anyone ever called it "Live". It's always been Live Era for short, Live Era 87-93 for long.

No review, no press release or marketing material, ever called it "Live". It's always been Live Era or Live Era 87-93.

*As far as vocal redubs, they are extensive, and I'm sure if you take a listen to Rocket Queen you'll get a sense of what Axl is or was trying to do with his "Mickey Mouse" voice that took us by surprise in 2002.

Back on topic, yes, it seemed like Axl had plans or intentions and didn't want to sit on the material.

I don't think he's as motivated or eager to get things out as he was 10-13 years ago.

I think he honestly tried then but failed. And recovering from the failure was really hard.

"Failure" is all relative, BTW. But things didn't go as planned.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Gagarin

[hudsonsaul]

....

Back on topic, yes, it seemed like Axl had plans or intentions and didn't want to sit on the material.

I don't think he's as motivated or eager to get things out as he was 10-13 years ago.

I think he honestly tried then but failed. And recovering from the failure was really hard.

.....

Good points.

[classicguns4life]

Jesus Yesterdaze, relax. People are simply using 'Live Era' to shorten the album name. We all know what each other mean when this is typed....or even said. We have heaps of abbreviations for albums; Chinese, CD, UYI, Illusions, Illusions 1, Appetite, AFD, ....."Live Era" is just another one.

Live Era is a fascinating time in Axl/Guns history, thats why I enjoy it now when looking back. Also remember getting excited when seeing in the store, but feeling a little disjointed when listening to it (due to the overdubs / production I'd say).

The early CD demos were exciting too, and like someone else posted, i also felt he was holding back some amazing tracks (imo turns out he wasn't, as the leaks appeared to be his 'big guns').

Oh, I understand. It's just that others don't know.

But do you really?

[Amir]

Among all the things the overproduction ruined, Catcher In The Rye was by a mile the greatest loss. What a great song it was.

I used to think so, but the more I listen to the demo, the more it sounds like the things that bother me (the guitars in the intro when the piano would do just fine) are just lower in the mix/less audible because of the poor leak quality. May have been overproduced already by '99.

And I like the outro guitar on the album version from "On an ordinary day..." onwards. I think it should have just had the beginning stripped down to vocals and piano, and build up/crescendo to epic outro, instead of firing on an all cylinders from the start.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Amir

[username]

At the time, I wasn't that impressed with OMG. Big change. I disliked the SCOM version from Big Daddy too. Still do actually. Just a less-good ripoff from the original. OMG however really grew on me. I prefer the 1999 versions of IRS, TWAT and CITR to the CD versions by MANY miles. Same goes for the live versions of CD, The Blues and Rhiad from 2001. They all just wipe the floor with today's overproduced messy re-re-re-recorded versions.

I'd LOVE to have the 1999/2000 version of CD and everything else from that era.

[Yesterdaze]

This is the last time I'll post about this, but let me provide another example.

Kissology Volume One: 1974–1977, KISS' awesome DVD series about the best years of the band.

The "Era" is unwritten in the title as it's simply assumed, but let's say for argument's sake that it was included. It would then be:

Kissology Volume One: Era 1974–1977

Finally, would all of you who disagree call this collection Volume One: Era? Of course not.

Whether your a rock critic, blogger, columnist or otherwise, calling it "Live Era" completely changes the contet of the title. I completely understand that the great majority call it that, however, simply read the title on the cover:

Guns N' Roses Live Era 87-93

Edited October 23, 2013 by Yesterdaze

[Amir]

The '99 demo of TWAT does nothing for me. The album version is one of my favourite songs ever, and the Bucket solo is one of my favourite solos ever.

I'm undecided on IRS, leaning towards the demo. I like all the synths that are higher in the mix on the demo, and I don't like the grinding rhythm guitars on the album version, but there are little guitar parts here and there (on the right speaker at 3:52) that I really like.

[Yesterdaze]

I think I like the drum sound on the version in the first post better than the album version.

[classicguns4life]

This is the last time I'll post about this, but let me provide another example.

Kissology Volume One: 1974–1977, KISS' awesome DVD series about the best years of the band.

The "Era" is unwritten in the title as it's simply assumed, but let's say for argument's sake that it was included. It would then be:

Kissology Volume One: Era 1974–1977

Finally, would all of you who disagree call this collection Kissology Volume One: Era? Of course not.

Whether your a rock critic, blogger, columnist or otherwise, calling it "Live Era" completely changes the contet of the title. I completely understand that the great majority call it that, however, simply read the title on the cover:

Guns N' Roses Live Era 87-93

We moved past it! Get over it. The album is Live Era. We all got it.

[estrangedtwat]

Where is the proof that any of the versions we got were actually from 1999?

None of that shit leaked until 2006. We have no idea when it was recorded.

[Yesterdaze]

This is the last time I'll post about this, but let me provide another example.

Kissology Volume One: 1974–1977, KISS' awesome DVD series about the best years of the band.

The "Era" is unwritten in the title as it's simply assumed, but let's say for argument's sake that it was included. It would then be:

Kissology Volume One: Era 1974–1977

Finally, would all of you who disagree call this collection Kissology Volume One: Era? Of course not.

Whether your a rock critic, blogger, columnist or otherwise, calling it "Live Era" completely changes the contet of the title. I completely understand that the great majority call it that, however, simply read the title on the cover:

Guns N' Roses Live Era 87-93

We moved past it! Get over it. The album is Live Era. We all got it.

Except that it's not Live Era.

[Amir]

Where is the proof that any of the versions we got were actually from 1999?

None of that shit leaked until 2006. We have no idea when it was recorded.

I'm curious about that, too. Though didn't IRS leak in 2003? The music I'm pretty sure is from '98-99 (Freese on drums, no Bucket), but the vocals I can't be sure. Then again, Axl thought he had a complete album by 2002, so it's safe to say that a lot of vocals were already done for a lot of songs (apart from the Bucket tracks like Scraped and Shackler's where the music came after Bucket joined the band, and in the case of the latter we know it didn't get vocals until at least May 2007!).

[estrangedtwat]

99 was exciting as hell. Not only did we get the first studio recordings from Axl in fucking forever, but there was the Loder interview of course.

Then there was the Rolling Stone article that previewed CD that was really amazing...

And the TWO unauthorized interviews that really shed some light on Axl's fucking insanity. The cover story from Spin (What the World Needs Now is Axl Rose) in July, a few months before the new material started surfacing.

Read it at Jarmo's shit shack before that asshole realizes it paints Axl in a negative light and takes it down:

http://heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=71

And then in 2000 Rolling Stone released an even more scathing story....also a fascinating read: http://heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Also.....really not relevant to discuss the leaks that people assume are from 1999 (with zero evidence) because we didn't hear them til 2006. We knew some song titles by 99....some were real, some were false. But that was all we had to go on. Descriptions from the Rolling Stone article.

I was so fucking psyched to hear Oklahoma. And here it is almost 2014 and I've still never heard it.

[Amir]

You can read the SPIN magazine article on Google Books, too: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I5x8l8IaNUMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=what+the+world+needs+now+is+axl+rose+spin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wo9nUtCtOaTCigKnu4CQCw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ

I think the TWAT/IRS/Catcher leaks came from when Axl played those songs in a strip club, what year was that? He mentioned something about it being a less secure environment than he thought (??!!) in the Dec '08 chats.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Amir

[estrangedtwat]

Where is the proof that any of the versions we got were actually from 1999?

None of that shit leaked until 2006. We have no idea when it was recorded.

I'm curious about that, too. Though didn't IRS leak in 2003? The music I'm pretty sure is from '98-99 (Freese on drums, no Bucket), but the vocals I can't be sure. Then again, Axl thought he had a complete album by 2002, so it's safe to say that a lot of vocals were already done for a lot of songs (apart from the Bucket tracks like Scraped and Shackler's where the music came after Bucket joined the band, and in the case of the latter we know it didn't get vocals until at least May 2007!).

Well whenever the hell Axl actually DID lay the vocals down, whether it was in 99 or 2005, we know he pretty much stuck with one take. Cause the vocals are identical on every iteration of the leaks and the final album and the multi-tracks. So all that "tinkering" (dicking around) he did for over a decade was on the music and stupid effects, and certainly not spent on doing re-takes of the vocals.

[classicguns4life]

And then in 2000 Rolling Stone released an even more scathing story....also a fascinating read: http://heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Jesus Christ:

Hodges-Knight testified that Axl kicked Everly with his cowboy boots, and dragged her around by the hair one night while she was wearing a see-through tank top and panties, threw a television set at her (it missed) and spit on her. "That pig," she said. "He spit on her."

Everly herself claimed Axl sexually assaulted her. She described a day when Axl ordered her to take off a bathing suit she was wearing, after which he tied her hands to her ankles from behind, put masking tape over her mouth and a bandana around her eyes, and led her, naked into a closet, where she remained for several hours while Axl talked to a friend of hers in the living room.

Later, according to Everly, Axl untied her, picked her up and tied her, face down, to a convertible bed. And then, "he forced himself on me anally really hard. Really hard."

"Were you screaming?" she was asked.

"Yes."

"How long did that last?"

"I don't remember."

"What happened when it was over?"

"He took it out and stuck it in my mouth."

An unreleased version of the video for GN'R song "It's So Easy", directed by Englishman Nigel Dick features Everly in bondage gear, with a red ball in her mouth as Axl screams, "See me hit you! You fall down!" The singer, according to a former associate, went to some lengths to gather up the few existing copies of the tape after Everly went to court against him.

[username]

This is the last time I'll post about this, but let me provide another example.

Kissology Volume One: 1974–1977, KISS' awesome DVD series about the best years of the band.

The "Era" is unwritten in the title as it's simply assumed, but let's say for argument's sake that it was included. It would then be:

Kissology Volume One: Era 1974–1977

Finally, would all of you who disagree call this collection Volume One: Era? Of course not.

Whether your a rock critic, blogger, columnist or otherwise, calling it "Live Era" completely changes the contet of the title. I completely understand that the great majority call it that, however, simply read the title on the cover:

Guns N' Roses Live Era 87-93

Seriously dude, this is some of the most irrelevant offtopic shit I've read on here in a long time. Stop ruining a perfectly good thread with it.

[Amir]

Where is the proof that any of the versions we got were actually from 1999?

None of that shit leaked until 2006. We have no idea when it was recorded.

I'm curious about that, too. Though didn't IRS leak in 2003? The music I'm pretty sure is from '98-99 (Freese on drums, no Bucket), but the vocals I can't be sure. Then again, Axl thought he had a complete album by 2002, so it's safe to say that a lot of vocals were already done for a lot of songs (apart from the Bucket tracks like Scraped and Shackler's where the music came after Bucket joined the band, and in the case of the latter we know it didn't get vocals until at least May 2007!).

Well whenever the hell Axl actually DID lay the vocals down, whether it was in 99 or 2005, we know he pretty much stuck with one take. Cause the vocals are identical on every iteration of the leaks and the final album and the multi-tracks. So all that "tinkering" (dicking around) he did for over a decade was on the music and stupid effects, and certainly not spent on doing re-takes of the vocals.

Not quite. The lyrics in the outro for CD changed, and he may have added the second layer that's on the album version later. SOD/The Blues got new lyrics in the outro, and Better changed the "Now you know me better, you know I know better" bit to "Now I know you better..." so it's the same throughout.

[mixk]

I would not want to hear the 1999 AFD but I would love to hear the 1999 Chinese Democracy - the songs before they were re-re-recorded over the span of a decade and rather closer to the original experimentation and instrumentation the songs had

[EvH]

Live Era or Live : Era or LivEra or whatever you call it, to put it simply, sucks. Thank God Gn'R is the second or third most bootlegged band on Earth, 'cause this album is a shame.

The crowd sample that loops at the start of PC, boosted cheering on KOHD, the missing rythm guitar on RQ, butchered drums on the '87 Marquee tracks...Dear.

[GN'R Lies]

I think they called it Live Era because that's when they toured.

[dalsh327]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/robin-finck-leaves-guns-n-roses-19990803

He did the RS interview with Loder months after this happened. When has someone contracted musicians like they're temp employees?

Live Era or Live : Era or LivEra or whatever you call it, to put it simply, sucks. Thank God Gn'R is the second or third most bootlegged band on Earth, 'cause this album is a shame.
The crowd sample that loops at the start of PC, boosted cheering on KOHD, the missing rythm guitar on RQ, butchered drums on the '87 Marquee tracks...Dear.

Slash and Axl were both involved in putting it together (not by choice, it was an obligation) but how much if it is live and how much of it is....."live"?

[wasted]

I thought it was Del who put Live Era together? That was one of the jobs he got with GNR.

[Amir]

Del went through the DAT tapes, Axl and Slash sent in their overdubs.

[EvH]

And I'm not even against overdubs by principle. I listened to Queen's Live at Wembley maybe a thousand times, and it's overdubbed to hell. Live Era is not as bad as AC/DC's If You Want Blood (a whole song is just the studio version with the pitch changed and crowd noises), Judas Priest's Unleashed or Van Halen's RHRN but really? WTTJ is so overdubbed we don't know the show it's from. Patience has its halves from two different shows!

Well, I guess we have a listenable Move To The City with the great jam as opposed to the horrible untouched Tokyo one.