CD deserved a competent audience

[netcat]

his problem is not that he stuck with GNR name, it is that he stuck in time and in his irrational mind.

but yes, i think if CD was released in early 00, it would automatically get a wider audience, hard rock, industrial, even experimental music fans, Praxis' for example. i'm not saying they would all love it, but at least more people'd give it a try.

in 2008 even most of Axl's classic era fans got so emotionally distanced from him that they didn't even bother listening

CD's only experimental in the fact that it experiments with extremes of overindulgence. Too much!

i didn't say it was experimental. i assumed Praxis fans would be interested because of Bucket and Brian

[username]

It's not really the era of rock hits.

It isn't. But that's no excuse for dropping the ball in every area possible. It's not the era of rock. You won't achieve 90's success. But it COULD do so much better if the record was different, didn't take so long and if it was properly promoted. There was way more thay could have achieve critically and commercially.

[Randy Lahey]

A successful single might get you some more "blind" buys based on the single. Granted that you'd actually promote and market that single (and the album). But it's not realistic to have one kickass YCBM style rocker on an otherwise overproduced mess. It'd be quite weird. People who would buy the album based on that single will find the single they loved the odd one out and that'd be bad publicity for the album. Their reviews would be terrible. Same with the critics by the way. It might win you some success, but it won't save your album in the long run. Having a hit single to promote your album only works if it's a good representation of the album. If it's the one descent track in a big mess, forget about it.

I agree that the production on CD is not the best. If they had a big rocker to set the table they could have released something like If The World next and people might have given it a chance. Usually when a band has a monster single, the next single gets a lot of airplay at first.

[wasted]

It's not really the era of rock hits.

It isn't. But that's no excuse for dropping the ball in every area possible. It's not the era of rock. You won't achieve 90's success. But it COULD do so much better if the record was different, didn't take so long and if it was properly promoted. There was way more thay could have achieve critically and commercially.

That's the thing, it wouldn't do any better if it was promoted differently. The Best Buy deal made promo worthless. Sucks for the fans but covered the label and allowed us to get the record. Maybe if you go back to 99-00 and don't get RTB in and just release it, but they didn't seem to think it was good enough. I can't see how the record could be better given who was playing the parts. Obviously a reunion would shut our mouths.

Still though, it's Chinese Democracy, nightmare/genius we know about it. Secured Axl's notoriety, legend. People will say no but still it's noteworthy in the history of rock.

[username]

A successful single might get you some more "blind" buys based on the single. Granted that you'd actually promote and market that single (and the album). But it's not realistic to have one kickass YCBM style rocker on an otherwise overproduced mess. It'd be quite weird. People who would buy the album based on that single will find the single they loved the odd one out and that'd be bad publicity for the album. Their reviews would be terrible. Same with the critics by the way. It might win you some success, but it won't save your album in the long run. Having a hit single to promote your album only works if it's a good representation of the album. If it's the one descent track in a big mess, forget about it.

I agree that the production on CD is not the best. If they had a big rocker to set the table they could have released something like If The World next and people might have given it a chance. Usually when a band has a monster single, the next single gets a lot of airplay at first.

I've always thought ITW would make a good follow-up single in today's music scene. And I've always felt that the 2002-version of The Blues would have made a good single too. Those two would have worked best imo. I also agree that a good rocker single was missing. Better came closest, but wasn't quite it imo. It might have worked though, if properly promoted.

Better -> ITW -> The Blues

Something like that. With good promotion. And those songs (and the rest of the album) in 2000-form.

If you'd have released all that in 2001 or so I even think it might have done VERY well.

[Johnny Drama]

Yeaaah, cuz it's soooo intelligent and it's SOOOO difficult to see what Axls trying to do with it, it's such a puzzle. Oh my God, a trip-hop intro, call the intellectuals!

Fuck off, that's not what I was saying at all. Like I said, at best it's a solid to good album, but it gets such a horribly shit rep because the only people who've bothered to listen to it are 80s rock fans who wanted a Poison record. A large amount of the people who relentlessly bash CD actually think Slash's 2010 album was good.

I don't consider it "intellectual" or anything of the sort, just a decent modern rock record with about 4-5 enjoyable songs and probably more if I hadn't played the absolute shit out of it from 2008-10.

Slash self titled x1000> CD.

IFOCS>CD

Contraband > CD

[EvH]

Trolling aside, ALG?> CD.

[Dazey]

Yeaaah, cuz it's soooo intelligent and it's SOOOO difficult to see what Axls trying to do with it, it's such a puzzle. Oh my God, a trip-hop intro, call the intellectuals!

Fuck off, that's not what I was saying at all. Like I said, at best it's a solid to good album, but it gets such a horribly shit rep because the only people who've bothered to listen to it are 80s rock fans who wanted a Poison record. A large amount of the people who relentlessly bash CD actually think Slash's 2010 album was good.

I don't consider it "intellectual" or anything of the sort, just a decent modern rock record with about 4-5 enjoyable songs and probably more if I hadn't played the absolute shit out of it from 2008-10.

The reviews were pretty much all positive to average. I don't think that CD has a horribly shit rep at all, it's just that it didn't set the world alight so not a lot of people care. It was an average to decent record that I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed but not to the point where they're still venerating it five years later. It's got a solid 64 average on Metacritic right now so I don't think anybody can say it was universally hated.

[Iron MikeyJ]

If you have ever enjoyed a song by iVan Halen, Motley Crue, Skid Row, White Snake or Poison in your adulthood I kindly ask that you refrain from posting in this thread.

Putting Van Halen in the same league as 80s sleaze rock bands shows how badly trolling you are. At least, I hope for you.

agreed!!! Don't trash Eddie by trying to make your point. I love both gnr and Van Halen, but if you asked me which band was better, I would probably have to go with VH. More albums, and just plain greater impact. Besides Buckethead and BBF would both list EVH as a major influence.

I am not trolling but putting any guitar player in gnr's history (slash included) in the same league as EVH is just plain ignorant. Riffs, solos, songs, impact, and his rhythm ability's piss all over every guitar player gnr has ever had. Saying that i love slash and I love all the contributions everyone made to CD. But they are all below the great EVH. He is the total package as a guitarist, while all of gnr's guitarists have weaknesses.

Slash, is a great lead guitarist, but his rhythm playing is not in the same league with Eddie. Besides Eddie does both simulatanously. BBF is techanacal as shit, but his feel leaves something to be desired. Ashba, please. Fortus, please. Finck waaay to sloppy to even be compared to Eddie. Buckethead is honestly the only one that even comes close. But his body of work doesn't measure up. Van Halen wrote more memorable riffs and solos on his first album than Buckethead has in his entire career.

I personally like gnr better than VH but it is close. Both bands were far and away the best to come out of the LA scene during that era. The funny thing is Van Halen kinda started the whole scene and gnr ended it. All the crap came in between.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Mike420

[Nick85]

You're not wrong, Bacardi. I've always felt that many people judged Chinese for what it wasn't, rather than for what it was. In fact, I think it's safe to say a good chunk of people made their mind up before they heard one track.

I'd also give CD a solid 8/10....Although I still like a couple skid row tracks. : )

[EvH]

If you have ever enjoyed a song by Van Halen, Motley Crue, Skid Row, White Snake or Poison in your adulthood I kindly ask that you refrain from posting in this thread.

Putting Van Halen in the same league as 80s sleaze rock bands shows how badly trolling you are. At least, I hope for you.

agreed!!! Don't trash Eddie by trying to make your point. I love both gnr and Van Halen, but if you asked me which band was better, I would probably have to go with VH. More albums, and just plain greater impact. Besides Buckethead and BBF would both list EVH as a major influence.

I am not trolling but putting any guitar player in gnr's history (slash included) in the same league as EVH is just plain ignorant. Riffs, solos, songs, impact, and his rhythm ability's piss all over every guitar player gnr has ever had. Saying that i love slash and I love all the contributions everyone made to CD. But they are all below the great EVH. He is the total package as a guitarist, while all of gnr's guitarists have weaknesses.

Slash, is a great lead guitarist, but his rhythm playing is not in the same league with Eddie. Besides Eddie does both simulatanously. BBF is techanacal as shit, but his feel leaves something to be desired. Ashba, please. Fortus, please. Finck waaay to sloppy to even be compared to Eddie. Buckethead is honestly the only one that even comes close. But his body of work doesn't measure up. Van Halen wrote more memorable riffs and solos on his first album than Buckethead has in his entire career.

Thank you ! cupcakes should just listen to Mean Street & Fools and shut the hell up.

[Iron MikeyJ]

It's amazing to me sometimes how people like to over look Eddie, or sell his contributions short. Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, and Eddie Van Halen are the 3 most influential guitar players in rock and roll history. Those 3 guys just changed everything. Sure other guys have been great also, but none made the impact that these guys did.

As far as Eddie goes, he is the holy grail for me. I play guitar, I actually have a wolfgang guitar but anywyas, if you can play Van Halen, you can play fucking anything on the guitar. Sure some songs are easier than others, but songs like meanstreets are just insane. It's his rhythm ability that gets over looked. He is one of the best rhythm guitarists ever, period. Even guys like Vai and satriani don't have as good of rhythm as Eddie does. Plus his feel is just insane.

People have learned how to play eruption, and some people play his songs well yes. But it never sounds the same. Van Halen is literally the one band that no one can cover. Why? Because no one can sound like Eddie. When Sammy plays Van Halen tunes live, his guitar players never play the solos good. Even Michael Jackson when he played beat it live, no one ever got the solo right. Even that chick Orianthy or whatever her name is. She played the solo good I suppose, but not like Eddie. Hell when Velvet Revolver inducted VH in the rock n roll hall of fame, slash completly trashed ain't talkin' bout love. He just couldn't do it. Which I don't blame him, Eddie is fuckining unreal.

Before people start posting videos of people playing VH good, I know some do in fact exists. Hell DLR used to have an Eddie clone in his band that did them damn well. So no its not impossible, but its really rare. And of course everyone and their brother can play eruption. But what about hot for teacher? What about Meanstreet? What about Light up the sky? Only true technical masters like Vai and Maalmsteen even get close.

[sweetness]

It's just not a very good album. The only reasonable excuse for why Chinese Democracy wasn't received so well is the constant delay and unwilingness for Axl to release it, I believe if the same record came out in the late 90's it would have done much better.

[niceguy]

Nothing wrong with the record or songs. It's not really the era of rock hits.

Stop making excuses for him.

Muse is doing just fine in your supposedly dead era for rock music.

[liers]

Axl was fighting an uphill battle with CD....

late 90's early 2000's it was a slight incliune, 2003-2008 it was like climbing a 89* wall.

He went through so many musicians, so much editing, so many managers... it ended up a mess.

I like CD.... But it's a mess.... It has so many people doing so many things, that it's an over edited mess.

That said, Axl put a lot of feeling into the songs on CD, which is the thing that saves it. There's no doubt that a 2001 or 2002 release would've fared better than any other time. There was still mystery about the band and axl, and the songs were still raw, which is how rock songs should be.

[RussTCB]

I've said this on other forums but not sure if I ever posted it here. My problem isn't with the audience that listened to CD, my problem with with the audience that didn't listen to CD but still have an opinion. I've had a lot of discussions with people who claim to hate the album and openly admit they never actually listened to it.

[AndreCC]

I think we deserved a more competent and cohesive album. After all the man himself told us he wouldn't throw us a brick.

Nobody wants to hear about his relationship with Stephanie Seymour... That's long and gone... we all expected Axl to address the break up of his now band and address it aggressively, but instead we got an album that hardly has any rockers, and most of the ones that are included are crap... (Scraped, Shacklers, Sorry...)

[Crash Diet]

Your elitism shows up again, cardi...

but i agree: if Axl released this as a solo record receptions would be better

The problem is: much smaller audience if Axl doesn't keep the GNR name on the record.

[volcano62]

Trolling aside, ALG?> CD.

Completely false...

CD is not a B release like a solo effort.

[Crash Diet]

If you have ever enjoyed a song by Van Halen, Motley Crue, Skid Row, White Snake or Poison in your adulthood I kindly ask that you refrain from posting in this thread.

I still enjoy Corabi's voice on the 1994 record or enjoy some early VH songs

or guess what: i still enjoy the second mÖtley record to this day

Why are you so butthurt?

You like Kanye West that's a similar shame thing like liking cock rock/hair metal till this day

I love RHCP, but not with the new guitarist: he is a talentless hack, compared to Frusciante or Slovak

Do you still like the current RHCP?

Please refrain to express your thoughts on this board....

see wat i did there?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Crash Diet

[EvH]

Trolling aside, ALG?> CD.

Completely false...

CD is not a B release like a solo effort.

To develop a bit, there are songs on CD that I find way better than any on ALG? : Maddy, Prostitute, ChiDem, Better and Shackler's. But as an album, ALG? is more consistent and simply better to those ears. Plus it has freakin' Serial Killer.

[Crash Diet]

It's just not a very good album. The only reasonable excuse for why Chinese Democracy wasn't received so well is the constant delay and unwilingness for Axl to release it, I believe if the same record came out in the late 90's it would have done much better.

and pretty much this

If the record came out in 2002, Axl could be still put out new music to this day

[jekylhyde]

It's a good Guns N' Roses album, but it would've been a great Axl Rose album.

Besides Rhiad (they should've put Oh My God on the album instead of that abomination), I still like every song on the album.

[AndreCC]

I like the first 4 Van Halen Records, and i like all the Motley Crue albums except the one with Corabi. What's wrong with that? Any of those albums i've mentioned are way better than Chinese Democracy!

[CoolRanchDressing]

Your theory sucks. If cd was good it would have found an audience, with or without those dastardly mulletheads and their inferior personal taste. What was to stop all the world's forward-thinking intellectual communities from embracing This I Love on their own? The only conspiracy that hurt Chinese Democracy was the pact between Beta and Axl to squander the rest of his life on crushing mediocrity.

Edited October 14, 2013 by CoolRanchDressing